A QUESTION FOR THE OLD HEADS.....DID ILLMATIC REALLY HAVE AS MUCH OF AN IMPACT AS PEOPLE SAY.....

[intilectual recipricol]

Adrenaline Rush ain't a universal classic. I'm not a Bone fan - but what were the ratings on the two Bone albums?

It is a universal classic... its just regional like those other shyts. Dont be fooled, nikkaz across the country aint fukkin with those albums you named. but they get reviewed because it was the EC...

 

[AB Ziggy]

Little to no impact was felt upon release. It started to pick up after 2000.

This. It offically didn't go platinum til freaking 2001. That's over 7 years since its release and it took that long.

 

[AB Ziggy]

i had an official copy of illmatic 2 weeks before it dropped that i got from georges music room so i'm more hiphop than most of you

Yeah grandpa. We get it.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

This. It offically didn't go platinum til freaking 2001. That's over 7 years since its release and it took that long.

shyt woulda NEVER went plat if he aint beef with Jigga.

 

[mobbinfms]

It is a universal classic... its just regional like those other shyts. Dont be fooled, nikkaz across the country aint fukkin with those albums you named. but they get reviewed because it was the EC...

I vehemently disagree about AR, but I'll let you make your case to me. The albums I initially listed are from nationwide groups. We really claiming EPMD wasn't nationwide now?
Again - what were the ratings!!

 

[KEEPITTRILLA]

who cares its the best shyt ever so

 

[ISO]

Adrenaline Rush ain't a universal classic. I'm not a Bone fan - but what were the ratings on the two Bone albums?

They weren't reviewed but they both made The Source's list of 100 best hip hop albums All-Time in 1998. And yeah Adrenaline Rush is not a universal classic lmao.

 

[mobbinfms]

They weren't reviewed but they both made The Source's list of 100 best hip hop albums All-Time in 1998. And yeah Adrenaline Rush is not a universal classic lmao.

Not reviewed means the label didn't get the Source a copy of the album in time. Only Creepin made that list. Still - shows to me it would have gotten a 4.5 or so. Maybe a 4. That's not shytting on it at all.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

I vehemently disagree about AR, but I'll let you make your case to me. The albums I initially listed are from nationwide groups. We really claiming EPMD wasn't nationwide now?
Again - what were the ratings!!

When I be schoolin you in these exchanges I do too much of the work. The teacher is to guide, the student is to work. So go ahead and look it up.

 

[mobbinfms]

When I be schoolin you in these exchanges I do too much of the work. The teacher is to guide, the student is to work. So go ahead and look it up.

In other words - you ain't got shyt. Thanks for playing.

 

[lutha]

Um, here's another one that presume 1994 and no different from 2013. During that time period, you didn't have the internet that makes the hip hop world smaller. Second, hip hop at that time was region based, not like how it is today where you could be from anywhere and no matter what region you are from anybody from another region will be f*cking with it. Back in those days, the west coast only played west coast music. East coast only played their sh*t. And the South generally was west coast leaning or only f*cked with that miami bass sound, until Outkast came along and nobody is arguing that Southernplayalistic... didn't have impact either, but that's not in discussion right now.

Illmatic is the Citizen Kane of rap albums. Something that upon its release wasn't a huge commercial success but decades upon decades later is regarded as one of the most influential and impactful things ever released.

that's partly true...yes, a lot was region based, but that was mainly in ny...you had media that was based in ny with the elitist attitude influencing things...since ny is the media capital, they set the standard/pace as to what people should think is hot (people, music)...in a lot of cases, if it wasn't from ny or that region, it didn't get recognized/played...where as in other regions, they recognized/played whatever they thought was hot...the west played east and south music too...the south played east and west music too...that's why if you look back at the music being made then, you saw a lot of west/south collaboration going on...

anyway, illmatic is a great album, but it is not that influential/impactful....ny, maybe, but not on the whole of hip hop...if anything, all the so called impact/influence is media bias from the media that was based outta ny...it came out at a time when the media in the east couldn't not recognize the other regions...dre was leading the way for the west killing everything...you had kast and others leading the way for the south....they were knocking on the door saying 'open up and listen on your own, or we knocking this muthafukka down and making you listen'...they tried their best by rating east music higher than other regions, not playing other regions as much, etc...but they were looking for someone/something to put out there to put themselves back in the forefront...cue illmatic...the media placed it on a pedestal...you had this young cat that reminded people of rakim/kool g the way he could spit...add on to that the producers he had for the album, it got hype...and when the source elected to give it 5 mics, when they didn't give 5 mics to debut albums like that at the time, made the hype go through the roof...but even with that hype/placement, people didn't try to make their albums like illmatic after it dropped...if it was that impactful/influential, that would've happened, and it didn't....does that take away from the album? no...it's still a great album, a classic...now you may ask why do people treat it the way they do now?...cause at this point, the folklore of how the great illmatic changed hip hop is so much of a legend, that if you say anything else, it'll look at as you hating/don't know what you talking about...just look at this thread....

 

[mobbinfms]

that's partly true...yes, a lot was region based, but that was mainly in ny...you had media that was based in ny with the elitist attitude influencing things...since ny is the media capital, they set the standard/pace as to what people should think is hot (people, music)...in a lot of cases, if it wasn't from ny or that region, it didn't get recognized/played...where as in other regions, they recognized/played whatever they thought was hot...the west played east and south music too...the south played east and west music too...that's why if you look back at the music being made then, you saw a lot of west/south collaboration going on...

anyway, illmatic is a great album, but it is not that influential/impactful....ny, maybe, but not on the whole of hip hop...if anything, all the so called impact/influence is media bias from the media that was based outta ny...it came out at a time when the media in the east couldn't not recognize the other regions...dre was leading the way for the west killing everything...you had kast and others leading the way for the south....they were knocking on the door saying 'open up and listen on your own, or we knocking this muthafukka down and making you listen'...they tried their best by rating east music higher than other regions, not playing other regions as much, etc...but they were looking for someone/something to put out there to put themselves back in the forefront...cue illmatic...the media placed it on a pedestal...you had this young cat that reminded people of rakim/kool g the way he could spit...add on to that the producers he had for the album, it got hype...and when the source elected to give it 5 mics, when they didn't give 5 mics to debut albums like that at the time, made the hype go through the roof...but even with that hype/placement, people didn't try to make their albums like illmatic after it dropped...if it was that impactful/influential, that would've happened, and it didn't....does that take away from the album? no...it's still a great album, a classic...now you may ask why do people treat it the way they do now?...cause at this point, the folklore of how the great illmatic changed hip hop is so much of a legend, that if you say anything else, it'll look at as you hating/don't know what you talking about...just look at this thread....

Are you saying Illmatic didn't deserve 5 mics?
Are you saying that an album getting 4.5 instead of 5 is "shytting" on said album? Can you give some examples of non-east albums (ones that are universal classics) that were shytted on? I already mentioned Doggystyle.

Also, what do you make of all the artists from different regions who acknowledge being influenced by Illmatic? Like Common, Ghost, etc. it seems like you're just ignoring that. Why do you think Dre worked with Nas in 96? That was the first East Coast rapper he worked with.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

@lutha has it exactly right (except illmatic isnt even a great album)

look @mobbinfms if you dont wanna accept the truth from nikkaz givin it to you then read the tea leaves. Illmatic flopped, no one else made an album like illmatic after it dropped, and naS himself switched his own shyt to what more successful rappers were doing, then naS sold. Those are the facts. nikkaz complainin bout labor pains, show me the baby. Show me the results of illmatic's impact. Show me shyt that sounds like illmatic. Cuz I can show you naS switchin his shyt up to sound more like Pac, Biggie, etc...

We have already discussed and you agreed that naS wasnt doin shyt lyrically that hadnt already been done. So what exactly did illmatic influence?

 

[mobbinfms]

@lutha has it exactly right (except illmatic isnt even a great album)

look @mobbinfms if you dont wanna accept the truth from nikkaz givin it to you then read the tea leaves. Illmatic flopped, no one else made an album like illmatic after it dropped, and naS himself switched his own shyt to what more successful rappers were doing, then naS sold. Those are the facts. nikkaz complainin bout labor pains, show me the baby. Show me the results of illmatic's impact. Show me shyt that sounds like illmatic. Cuz I can show you naS switchin his shyt up to sound more like Pac, Biggie, etc...

We have already discussed and you agreed that naS wasnt doin shyt lyrically that hadnt already been done. So what exactly did illmatic influence?

Common Resurrection
Raekwon and Ghost - OBFCL
Mobb Deep - Infamous
Illmatic influenced artists to go out and make their best work. Just like Kendrick's verse on Control, it was a lyrical call to arms.
I agree that Nas wasn't doing anything that Ra and G Rap hadn't already done, but he was the first from his generation of rappers to put that high level of lyricism over perfect production and make that perfect album.
Too bad for him, Mobb Deep came the next year and made a more perfect album.

 

[Wacky D]

Its not. Thats the point, look at this thread. Only old dust heads or NY nikkaz are sayin it had any impact at all. The hype cant go away because the magazines hyped it, its not like they can pull back all the magazines and change em. Dumb nikkaz fell for the hype. For the record the Source also rated that Lil Kim shyt 5 mics... over The Chronic, Doggystyle, MATW, AEOM, and 7DT... is that lil kim shyt really better?

how you mention lil kim's 5 mics but not kanye west & bun b getting 5 mics for even lesser albums? especially when it was closer in timeframe to the lil kim chit than those '90s albums.

I do agree that magazine hype was always bullchit and I also agree with what youre saying about these magazines being bias. but you gotta be a str8 shooter when youre calling somebody else out. instead, youre pushing your own propaganda.

and it wasn't just regional bias tho. these mags were moreso into a certain type of rap period. your man kanye west is the biggest beneficiary of that right now. your man lupe benefited greatly as well......and both of them were influenced by illmatic, btw.

It is a universal classic... its just regional like those other shyts. Dont be fooled, nikkaz across the country aint fukkin with those albums you named. but they get reviewed because it was the EC...

adrenaline rush aint no universal classic dog.

you should've just stuck to the bone albums.

Not reviewed means the label didn't get the Source a copy of the album in time. Only Creepin made that list. Still - shows to me it would have gotten a 4.5 or so. Maybe a 4. That's not shytting on it at all.

well why wasn't e.99 eternal on the list? that's a red flag right there.

also, I heard e.99 eternal got 3.5 mics.

@intellectual recipricol was right when he mentioned how Midwest, south and west albums were getting the cold shoulder.

Common Resurrection
Raekwon and Ghost - OBFCL
Mobb Deep - Infamous
Illmatic influenced artists to go out and make their best work. Just like Kendrick's verse on Control, it was a lyrical call to arms.
I agree that Nas wasn't doing anything that Ra and G Rap hadn't already done, but he was the first from his generation of rappers to put that high level of lyricism over perfect production and make that perfect album.
Too bad for him, Mobb Deep came the next year and made a more perfect album.

cmon dog. KENDRICK???

Kendrick didn't influence anybody to do anything that they weren't already doing.

all he did was influence these half-gay internet rap fans to stop focusing on corny rappers. and that didn't last long at all.

You're not gettin it man. Yea 50 was the #1 dude in the game popularity wise but his music wasn't havin that same effect on the culture. 50 and G-Unit existed in like a vacuum where they were just like in their own space. They had huge hits on the radio but outside of In Da Club no one from that camp were droppin game changers. Did they have the mixtape game on smash? Absolutely. Was 50 head and shoulders the most colossal dude in the game? Absolutely.

But Lil Jon came in and CHANGED THE GAME. You had east coast muthafukkas tryna make crunk records cause that was the sound that was gaining the most ground. The south was takin over. Then you had Kanye come in like around 04 and I don't even have to tell you the type of impact he had on this shyt. Muthafukka practically wiped the slate clean with gangsta rap in only a few short years. By Graduation 50... and everyone makin music like 50... was a fukkin artifact.

Wayne's been hot now since like 05... 07 if you wanna say the shyt started with DD3. And he's STILL a dominant force in the game. Not like he was back in like 08-09 but he's still a major player. But like I said Weezy CHANGED THE GAME. His style, the way he was rappin, his metaphors, his punchlines... shyt was contagious. His stamp... his DNA... it's ALL OVER this era. Him and Kanye are like the fukkin SYMBOLS of these last 5-6 years... at least as far as mainstream hip hop are concerned. Meanwhile 50 has become a fukkin joke and can't even get a hot song out there.

And I'm again I'm NOT tryna disrespect 50 cause I love the man's music even to this day but his success on the charts and his dominance really didn't do much when you consider the overall impact it had on the culture and the music. You couldn't really point to a single time in the last 10 years and be like... "Yea this shyt all started with 50 and G-Unit". I mean yea they definitely changed the way rappers came up with the mixtapes and shyt... actually you could say 50 REVOLUTIONIZED the mixtape scene... but his impact on the MUSIC and the CULTURE doesn't compare.

popularity is what matters the most. in order to have that type of popularity, you obviously had to have a great impact.

and if you want to talk about changing the game, you already acknowledged him revolutionizing the mixtape scene, which is greater than anything that was done by these other dudes you tryna vouch for.

lil jon didn't change anything. there was a communal effort to push crunk music to the moon. they used this as the vehicle to the start dumbing down the culture. they were championing crunk as being at the forefront of hip-hop before lil jon & esb album even started selling like that. and bone crusher flopped but they were still campaigning for him as well, and had him on that source cover claiming that crunk was running chit.

kanye west is the symbol of what? he never had any clout in the streets.

and are you seriously acting like lil wayne invented punchlines and metaphors? LIKE SERIOUSLY? all he did was hop on the bandwagon when punchline rap was at his peak and applied his own brand of raps that weren't really hot but easily accessible to your average dumbass listener. and he dominated after the game was dead and almost all the real niccas were relegated to the underground. and all these new rappers that were influenced by him because they didn't know any better are a big reason why rap is beyond dead at this point.