Barbary Lion vs Siberian Tiger

sicksoulja

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I'm not reading all that, took you all day to gather your sources. There's no changing your mind and I ain't buying your old ass stories either. I will say it's not a garenteed W for the tiger because lions are beast as well still give the tiger the advantage.
 

Sword

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I'm not reading all that, took you all day to gather your sources. There's no changing your mind and I ain't buying your old ass stories either. I will say it's not a garenteed W for the tiger because lions are beast as well still give the tiger the advantage.

Read all what? You made the claims, so back them up, you haven't posted any tiger killing male lion accounts yet. And old accounts? Hmmm, isnt that what you used as well? Sounds a bit hypocritical.

What do you mean change my mind? Where in any of my post did I say I favor either or? Just bringing forth data that most people hide or dont know about. You are the one toting out the tiger dominates, wins everytime, and is some type of un-killable god, even though small little 20 kilo wild dogs shred them apart, wild himalayin bears have there way with them, 150 lb leopards rip out their throats...yet again your arguments are weak, your material is lacking and nothing you said was backed up by credible information.

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Boss Tweed," Clyde said, "was one of the greatest fighters I've ever seen, in addition to his noble looks. He did some of his cleverest fighting in the Rochester Massacre. That was this spring. When Iwo score of lions and tigers were in the arena for a dress rehearsal. One, on a high seat, reached down to take a cuff at the cat below. They frequently do that without much happening. But in this case the caton the- high scat fell off and landed on the one below. The one below, thinking he was attacked, started to fight. In a second it was a free-for-all. In such a fight the lions have two distinct advantages. Their first is their thick mane which prevents the tigers from getting to their throats. Their second is their clannish way of ganging up on a tiger. A tiger will justwatch another tiger being attacked. The lions join each other. An animal attendant excitedly raised a gate into the shoot so the beasts could return to their cages. Into the shoot ran three Bengal tigers with Boss Tweed in pursuit. "For twenty minutes they battled. Boss Tweed killed the three tigers, but himself was almost torn to ribbons. He recovered but somehow he never seemed to be the same. His spirit or his fighting nerve was gone. The other morning I opened his cage door and he was dead, for seven years I trained him, the longest of any of my cats. I was greatly attached to him.

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/195707/

I dont see why that would be improbable...lions fight nomadic lions all the time, they have to take on multiple males at a time, the lion has by far the most savage and grualing straight up fights:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW-_KC5wtXU



This repetitive process of fighting multiple lions at a time hones there fighting skill, by the time its time for their first rival fight they will already have some 20+ battles under their belt, via experience, a tiger fighting for the first time will be going off of no fighting back ground and more on instincts, thats like pitting two different occupations against the other, one a hunter survivalist, the other a seasoned pro mma fighter. As shown already tigers fight only once or twice in their lives, and usually in their case that once or twice means death because they are un-protected unlike the lion who has his mane which isnt easy to by-pass. If it was, you would be able to find thousands of dead male lions with their necks torn out, like the verified scientific statements of the wild life officials stating the dead tigers they found had puncture wounds in their necks.

I should think there should have more male dead lions with their necks torn out, since on base, the male lion has to contend with more than 10 lionesses at a time when raiding other prides, mating season, or fighting for prowess and food. But no accounts of them mentioning males with their necks torn out, thats like over a 100 accounts of tigers cases of such, from bears, lions, leopards ect, yet where is just ten cases for the lion? No where, hence these animals are nearly identical in almost every way, yet the lion has the anatomical advantage of his mane, and more fighting skill from being social.
 
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Slangtonomo

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@Sword...you must take things into consideration such as adaptations and circumstances.

I would expect a lion to be a better fighter as they mostly live in open areas where you either fight or run, there's no avoidance as in a jungle.

Tigers live in an environment where it's able and best to avoid conflict. They're adapted to swift attacks and then death, not fighting. No wonder at all they lose and are killed in captive situations by lions.

While contrary lions live on open savanna and live in family groups where conflict and fighting are a constant.
 

Sword

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@Sword...you must take things into consideration such as adaptations and circumstances.

I would expect a lion to be a better fighter as they mostly live in open areas where you either fight or run, there's no avoidance as in a jungle.

Tigers live in an environment where it's able and best to avoid conflict. They're adapted to swift attacks and then death, not fighting. No wonder at all they lose and are killed in captive situations by lions.

While contrary lions live on open savanna and live in family groups where conflict and fighting are a constant.

Yes, and there are several cases lions have killed tigers in the wild...so I don't see any other environment or set up the tiger would come out the victor more often than the lion would. Just thought I leave some genuine records instead of the usual same old stuff always run down, if one was to make a decision then all the info must be presented, not just the tigers side.

Adding up all the statistics, the lion seems to have more useful advantages in a fight, and has come out the victor more than vice versa...on record.

Any one who can count will know this, making up hypes for either animal will not change their prowess nor will it alter or erase their history of their conflicts .
 

Sword

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Asiatic lion vs Bengal tiger

It seems alot of other science is missing in proving the tiger usually beat the lion, like archaeology, I dont think science can prove that one culture/race (European) can dominate another (Asian) just by looking how heavy, an the sizes of each's culture is...if you had 100 records of a european heavier than a asian, I dont think that would be enough to say that european would dominate a asian, but if you had historical artifacts like hieroglyphs, paintings, and photos of 100 war occasions of europeans beating asians, and almost no other replication of the opposite...that would be a more concrete way of seeing who can or did win more.
 

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Its interesting that other link I showed have repetitive notion of bears are huge, hence a bear would crush in a lions skull with one blow, yet there isn't a single first hand account or source-able root to any occasions where a grizzly has killed any lions with one blow to the head or back.

Compared to these:

article211294395_5_001.jpg

Fight Between a Lion and a Bear. - The Australian Workman (Sydney, NSW : 1890 - 1897) - 6 Apr 1895

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A few years ago an Englishman who had hunted lions In Africa ventured, upon a visit here, to express the opinion that an African lion could whip a grizzly in fair fight. His opinion was so warmly disputed by partisans of the grizzly that he determined to settle the matter. He brought a full grown lion to this Park and it was put into a cage'along with a grizzly. The lion at once sprang to the attack leaping upon the bear's back and trying to dig in with claws and teeth. The grizzly sincerely shook him off.The lion again sprang and was again shaken off. A third time it was shaken off, but this time the lion, annoyed, gave it a swipe with one of its paws, and broke its back. killing it with a single blow.
The Iola Register from Iola, Kansas · Page 6

King of swedens Barbary lion kills a european brown bear with one blow:

230px-Frederick_I_of_Sweden.jpg

Frederick I of Sweden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The king, of whom I have just narrated so many anecdotes, had a very large lion‘ presented to him by one of the Barbary powers. There were at this time several bears kept by the butchers about the shambles in Stockholm, and his majesty, being anxious to witness a rencontre between one of these animals and the lion, ordered them to be brought into contact with each other. ln the lion's den there were two apartments, into one of which the bear was introduced. On the lion, however, getting access to that animal, he found him posted in a corner; when, going up to him, he gave him a slight rap with his paw, as if to see of what materials his visitor was composed. The bear, not liking this kind of salutation, growled, and endeavored to parry it. This made the lion angry: when, ‘ with one- fell swoop,‘ with -his paw, as the story goes, he laid the bear dead at his feet.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Io5NAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA195&d q=african+lions+paw+blow+bear&hl
=en&sa=X&ei=6zR_U8D1HNDdoATcioFI &ved=0CAYQ6AEwADg


Lion kills bear with one blow:

Lion Kills Bear. In a phorl battle at the carnival grounds in Corry Monday night. bettween members of the bear and the lion families the latter was returned the victor an Having delivered a vicious assault on the bruin's head quarters. There was nothing to the skirmish, for the bear was outclassed outgeneraled and outslugged and never had a ghost of a show with the African jungle King, it was all over in the twinkling of an eye and the bear lay quite dead on the floor of his cage which the lion had invaded in making the attack.
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/4985736

Lioness crushes black bears skull with a blow of the paw:

e:
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https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=cigDAAA AIBAJ&pg=3652,1785493&hl=en

 
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Sword

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Tigresses killing male tigers:

1967 tigress kills male tiger protecting her cubs george schaller
1896 tigress kills male tiger in the london zoo and eats its body charles cornish
1985 tigress kills male tiger S kumar sanctuary of asia volume 5
1967 wild tigress defeats male tiger sher jung tryst with tigers
2001 saw a fight between a tiger and tigress later found the male tigers dead body J.C daniels natraj
1984 tigress named princess kills imported wild male bengal tiger rhode island
1981 valmik thapar sees a tiger killed by a tigress protecting her cubs
2001 tigress kills male cage mate in elpaso zoo
1913 tigress kills male tiger in the wild, cinncinati enquirer
2013 chennai tigress kills mate male white tiger
1956 two tigresses kill male bengal named rajah cinncinati zoo
2010 Shenzen safari park tigress kills male tiger
2012 ranthambore park male tiger steals tigresses meal and loses fight


Leopards killing tigers:

- 1 leopard killed a tigress in the wild (The hindu news)
- 1 leopad killed a tiger (seen by John helliot)
- A leopard killed a tiger (seen by Louis roth)
- Some tigers died in a battle with leopards (by George keller)
- A tiger died fighting a leopard in a menagerie (at Bostocks)
- Frank buck backs the leopard and filmed a leopard besting a tiger
- The history book on china said leopards are well known to attack tigers
- There are several artifacts of leopards defeating tigers
- 2 leopards fought and disembowled a tiger (saturday magazine)
- A leopard named Puss killed a big bengal tiger caught fresh from the wild (Hernan boger)
- A leopard named Beauty killed a noted big tiger
- And now its noted that the rajahs of india pitted them with the leopard always winning in lucknow

Lionesses killing and defeating tigers:

1925 asiatic lioness kills tiger in nagpur, maharaj bagh zoo
1903 lioness kills tiger in british menagerie
1924 lioness kills tiger stalemating him in london
1934 lionesss whips two bengal tigers terrell jacobs
1936 lioness nearly kills tiger, tiger is saved by water at soles brothers circus
1905 lioness almost kills tiger ripping him to shreds, william cartner thomas
1995 two young asiatic lionesses kill tigress in nadankanan zoo
1951 Lioness kills tiger in taiping zoo

She-bears killing male tigers:

1954 She bear dorris kills two tigers at fort lauderdale at clyde beattys jungle zoo, tim and his mate


So female versions of lions, tigers, leopards and bears have killed just about 30 male tigers...why is it that no records show a female version of any apex predator killing a male lion? Surely that means something to the lions durability, endurance and protecting factor of his mane. The same can be said for bears, there are some 50 accounts of tigers and pumas killing them with neck bites, yet no times leopards or tigers having killed male lions with large manes in a many scenarios. I think that says alot about the lions mane so far.
 

Sword

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Heres what terrell jacobs said in an interview:

Terrel Jacobs
terrelljacobstoplarge.jpg

Circus Animal Trainer Terrell Jacobs

He thereupon presented Mr. Terrell Jacobs, the gent who mixes lions and tigers in the same act and somehow manages to keep them from clawing each other to pieces. "The lion is the king of beasts," said Mr. Jacobs as soon as the subject was mentioned, "and that is not just a nice line that was thought up by the Chamber of Commerce. He really is the boss. "I'll concede that a full grown tiger can defeat a lioness or even a young lion. But put a full grown lion against a full grown tiger, and you are likely to have only the lion left when the fur stops flying. "And that is not hard to understand. All cat animals fight by biting at the throat, and clawing at the underparts of the body.

The male lion has a thick mane, which protects his throat, so he needn't worry about that. All he has to do is work on the tiger, which is not protected by a mane. And he usually does. I think the king of beasts would win a fight between the lion and the tiger, but mind you, I am not taking sides. Tigers are nable animals, too." "But what about a lion and a grizzly bear?" Mr. Jacobs was asked. He confessed he didn't know. He had never heard of such a meeting. But he believed that if one ever took place, the lion would win. "In addition to his teeth," said Mr. Jacobs, "the lion has 18 claws which are dangerous weapons. On each front paw he has a thumb, two scissors and two rippers. On each back paw he has four ripping claws. For protection he has his mane and his own strength. "A grizzly bear slaps, and then grabs hold of his opponent, and squeezes him, I believe," he expanded. "While he was squeezing the lion, the lion would be biting him in the throat, and ripping him in the body with his claws. I think the lion would win such a battle."
Detroit Free Press from Detroit, Michigan · Page 19



I'd really would have like to have seen, a rambler no body go up to Terrell jacobs and say...well I havent worked with a single lion or tiger in my life, but I read Wikipedia...I can tell you your wrong, the tiger wins every single time...lol And hey, out of the 1,000 tigers youve worked, you specifically chose the smallest tigers you could find, because the lions look bigger, and why should I take your opinion as anything (even though youve seen hundreds of fights) they were all females or young. I know the lineage of all your animals, and I can say for a fact they were sumatran tigers and not bengals or siberians. Everyone will agree with me because of wiki and because even though you worked with them and seen them fight, that doesnt really mean anything compared to written text of things I my self have never witnessed or can prove happened.

Hilarious.
 
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