Religion/Spirituality For atheists: What would God have to do to prove to you that he's real?

NoMayo15

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The rap music that is actively promoted in the media? Yes. But we're not talking about "sinfulness". But whether the media promotes values in accordance with the bible. And it doesnt as you already SHOULD know if you was a "christian" in the past.

Yeah, why should the media promote any values in any religious text?

We're talking about people that GOVERN other people. So obviously their actions that are in ACCORDANCE with their job (I reiterate, to GOVERN other people) would be useful. Now again, should I trust someone that has ties to Hitler? A simple google search would have led you to your answer that the "ties" points to FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING Nazis. Why would I trust someone like that? Or GWB Jr. being convicted of war crimes? Thats without even mentioning the questionable acts of GWB Sr.


The fact that you sweep this under the rug is hilarious yet sad at the same time. This shows what one is up against when calling out evil. People that will defend it without even researching. This was a quick google search friend that you could have done. My point is, that anyone that LOOKS at American policy, would have PLENTY to distrust of them. But if you dont look (as you havent) then thats on you. What Im showing you is where theres smoke, theres fire. Thats what my homies exemplified without them even knowing it. They were saying outlandish stuff that I found out wasnt true (and didnt believe at that time anyways). But they led me (indirectly) to seeing things that I would not have learned watching TV.

Very well, I wouldn't trust Prescot Bush either. He probably said ****** a lot. And I'm pulling that right out of my ass. But no, I wasn't defending the man. I was saying your accusation was unjustified and the way you framed it in particular was suspicious. I mean, I'm sure all of us don't have that many degrees of separation from Nazi Germany, but most of our families lives aren't archived in Washington, D.C. Anyway, he probably knowningly did business with someone in the Nazi party..... fine. George W. though, I'm not going to concede. I don't personally trust him, but I disagree with your reasoning. I don't acknowledge the authority of the....KLWCC (?), and neither does the UN, apparently. W. wasn't convicted of anything...just these Malaysians think he should be convicted. I know people personally with this same opinion.. that's all it is... opinion.

But to ask if I should trust someones FATHER because their father/son did something wrong is crazy to me. You'll never convince me that is a sound, logically way of thinking.

Yea and thats why I said I'd "wait" till you presented your answer about what Christianity was to you. Because I knew it wouldnt include that. Now after I brought it up? That is what I expected you to say.

You KNEW it?! Holy shyt, YOU'RE a prophet of god too! All praise the all-knowing, KOCK!

The EXACT same reason ehh? So you dont care about other religions because they're not the Creator of Existence? And what would a believer miss out on other than sins?

Yes, exactly. Is that what you think atheists do all day, just sin?
 

Everythingg

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No, I don't dispute that, but I don't see how it correlates to a one world government or even what the danger of such a system would lead to. Been asking you to answer this since the beginning.

You dont know how control of the media (where people get there news from not to mention IDEAS) would correlate to a one world gov't? The media pushes agendas all the time. When the time comes where it can be used as a "solution" you will see the same media push for it. I've told you already that the PEOPLE behind it are the danger. Not just the fact that its a "one world government".


Okay? But I gave you a multitude of things that could have happened. You still haven't answered why you take the bible as an authority on anything, especially when you concede that other religions might have made similar "predictions".

Could have happened? What does that matter? What we DO HAVE is the dead sea scrolls which corroborate the translations we have today. Are there mistranslations? Yes. But the Spirit of the bible is whats important. And I dont mean the "book" having a spirit. I mean the Spirit that is behind the texts.

Okay so please go into more detail as to what REALLY convinced you. Explain what happened, and why you were convinced.

Yes, it's been pointed out before that other religions have a belief in a transcendent god. Hinduism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, and probably some others I don't know about. Again, there's nothing particularly unique about the "god of Israel".

Except, Hinduism worshiped many gods along with the "supreme" one. Zoroastrianism consists of 2 equal gods. Havent heard too much about sikhism. Nonetheless it stands as I stated. Which one of these belief systems have 5 fulfilled prophecies AT LEAST? None of them to my knowledge. Thats the thing with the God of Abraham. There are things OUTSIDE of the text that you can point to. You know like Israel existing again? Or Abraham's name being great (famous) around the world? Or how about the fact that we have 7 billion people (of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) that branch out from what was given to the Hebrews? Theres more where that came from as well. But if you say theres "nothing unique" than we should find these same things (or similar) in the religions you named. So wheres the prophecies in those? What are the things outside of the texts we can point to?

You are an idiot on so many levels. One, the MAINSTREAM media reports what the MAINSTREAM scientists report to them. Media doesn't report unsupported conjecture unless it's an opinion show or article. When trying to report FACTS, they appeal to the majority thought of scientists, engineers, etc., and THOSE people study the event to find the BEST solution as to what happened. If there is some other possibility, then it needs to be proven and reviewed by others in the field. That's how GOOD/TRUE ideas make it into the MAINSTREAM and BAD/FALSE ideas are ignored and discarded. Not only are people like you annoying to deal with, you impede the progress of the rest of mankind.

JET FUEL DOESN'T HAVE TO MELT STEEL GIRDERS. The structural integrity of the buildings was compromised as soon as the planes hit them. All it took after that was time and gravity. Those floors that were hit were barely intact, and could not sustain the weight of the higher floors. So if, lets say... the 90th thru the 94th floors loses it's north wall ... the 95th floor has little support and oh yeah, is on fire. It and the remaining part of the top of the building falls on the floors below, and the force and weight is such that it takes out the rest of the building. It didn't fall perfectly down, nor did it fall at free-fall speeds. You can see the top leaning as it comes down and there's actually debris that falls faster than the building appears to fall.

As for the video (which is really the sweetest part of this whole thing), the shots you see ONLY show WTC7 from the north side... the side that was away from the other buildings that collapsed earlier that morning. What you, and other conspiracy theorists fail to look at is the SOUTH side of the building... the side directly facing the other WTC buildings. THAT side was hit by the debris of the buildings, had huge holes in it and was also on fire. So sure, from one angle you see a completely clean building that seemingly falls for no reason... but on a different angle:

Tallest building closest to the smoke on the left. Camera focuses in on it around the 0:45 sec mark until the end


This is why anything you say is a joke. Hopefully, you see how much of a jackass you make yourself look to the rest of us.


Before I respond, let me say I dont care if I look like a "jackass" to a bunch of atheists. You dont seem to understand that you'll eventually see what I was talking about. I care if you believe me, but its on you to make that decision. Nonetheless, yall will see what NOT believing in God gets you. Hopefully you'll do as I suggested and seek humbly for God Almighty to see if God will reveal Itself to you. But if you dont, again that is on you. Im sure this is the most extensive warning you've gotten up to this point.

Now onto your video. It still doesnt accurately depict why it came down the way it did. The top floors falling on the bottom ones is not going to cause it to fall in the manner it did. So your "hypothesis" (because thats all it is, since you're trying to defend the mystery around it as nothing) doesnt hold much weight





But I see you're just gonna keep fighting this. Doesnt matter that it fell straight on itself like a demolition. Doesnt matter if jet fuel cannot reach the amount of heat it would take to melt steel. None of that matters because "there was damage". This damage somehow caused the building to fall in the same manner of demolitions. The fact of the matter is that there are some questions that went unanswered with 9/11. For you to admit knowing that the media is owned by few companies, and then TRUST these companies to tell the truth is on onehand shocking but the otherhand expected. The same ones you're defending are the ones holding people back. Not the people like me who are trying to expose evil for what it is.

Just so you know, mainstream media is controlled. I mean earlier in your post you state you know this already. But here you are defending them as if they present "facts". They present what they want the people to know. At times, it could be a fact. Another time, a half truth. Another time, A LIE. This is all out there but you have to research it instead of sitting down with your eyes closed and ears covered, calling others name. That wont get us anywhere positive my brother.
Ehhhh, I view it as more of a joint fukk-up for all. Government pressuring banks to give home loans to people who couldn't afford them, people taking said loan without a contingency, and bank president's taking that second trip to Aruba. We're still talking about people fukking people ad infinitum. I still say it's hard to quantify who's helped more by this. Look at it this way, say the gov't didn't give the banks that $700B .... who's in worse shape: The President of Bank of America who might not get that that extra million dollar bonus this year, or the single parent who might be homeless if she defaults on her mortgage?



A couple things here. Going back to my other point, more customers mean more potential costs. Costs which the company might have viewed as TOO COSTLY if said customers had health issues that were particularly expensive to treat. Lets be reality, there's a reason why some insurance companies would drop coverage for those they discovered had certain pre-existing conditions.

The other thing, the larger point is ... I'm a fan of Friedman, who coined the phrase 'there's no such thing as a free lunch'. I think most people don't consider the unintended consequences of programs like these -- the dead weight.

So give that single parent the money. Not the millionaires lol. But of course our gov't didnt do that. Instead lets bail out the already well-off banksters and leave the common people to sip up some of that "trickle down money". Some people benefitted from the bank bailouts Im sure. Just as Im sure some will benefit from Obamacare. Heck all it takes is one major injury/illness that requires expensive surgery and you can say the cost of Obamacare fulfilled its "purpose". I just dont think it should be mandatory with tax penalties if not adhered to. That shows me that theres something else to it. In the case of the bank bailouts, its common sense that the banks benefitted the most out of it which was my point in the beginning

If the parent could control the child at any time, then the child is no more than a puppet imo. That's not the reality we live in, so your analogy doesn't perfectly fit, but I see what you're saying.

Good to see that you see what Im saying my friend. Just because God can choose an instance to take out someone's free will, doesnt mean in all other instances that the person's free will doesnt exist.
 
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Everythingg

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Yeah, why should the media promote any values in any religious text?

I didnt say they should or shouldnt (though promoting VALUES and MORALS would go a LONG way for this world). YOUR point in the beginning was that the leaders believe in the God of Abraham. I was just showing you if that was the case, that would be represented in the media. But its not. The opposite is presented. Rap music is an example. Mainstream rap promotes materialism, adultery, drug use, among other things. These are the things promoted by the media but condemned in the bible. But remember, the leaders actually believe in the God of Abraham right? Why are they doing the opposite of what the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob asked? Heres another one for your consumption.

Take a look at what your leaders do in there spare time...



cremation_of_care.jpg


300px-Harvey_Hancock_at_Bohemian_Grove_1967.jpeg

Bohemian Grove: Where the rich and powerful go to misbehave - WorldViews - The Washington Post

Looks like Reagan and Nixon there to the right and left of whoever that is standing .


Just so ya know, that owl is Moloch in the bible :mjpls:
Very well, I wouldn't trust Prescot Bush either. He probably said ****** a lot. And I'm pulling that right out of my ass. But no, I wasn't defending the man. I was saying your accusation was unjustified and the way you framed it in particular was suspicious. I mean, I'm sure all of us don't have that many degrees of separation from Nazi Germany, but most of our families lives aren't archived in Washington, D.C. Anyway, he probably knowningly did business with someone in the Nazi party..... fine. George W. though, I'm not going to concede. I don't personally trust him, but I disagree with your reasoning. I don't acknowledge the authority of the....KLWCC (?), and neither does the UN, apparently. W. wasn't convicted of anything...just these Malaysians think he should be convicted. I know people personally with this same opinion.. that's all it is... opinion.

But to ask if I should trust someones FATHER because their father/son did something wrong is crazy to me. You'll never convince me that is a sound, logically way of thinking.

My point was that I wouldnt trust a family that is rooted in governance, that has shown time and time again that it cannot be trusted. That was without going thru George W. Sr.'s questionable actions himself. If a family governed us, you should look at the family as an entity. If the father and son lied and cheated you, would you put your guard up when the grandson came? Or just be like "well I cant judge him for what his father did"? See me, I would put my guard up and then when the grandson proved himself worthy of my trust, then he would gain it. Till then, he has to make up for what his father and grandfather did and didnt do. Heck America was (allegedly) started off people revolting off family governance (the monarchy). Now it would have been stupid for them to assume the son (who was probably raised to follow in the SAME footsteps of his father) would just turn off that programming for their benefit right? I would think so. Anyways I was just showing you that the men that have stated the need for a "new world order" have questionable activities. Therefore I personally would not trust them in what they're doing. That is without mentioning the bible which has something to say about it. Its also without mentioning that they are puppets for the real playmakers in life.

The UN? :mjlol: You think they're going to call out America on anything? Of course not. Most countries arent. Thats why they can go do as they please in other countries with disregard for "justice" and "freedom" that they're supposed to be protecting. Its no coincidence that we had dealings with Saddam and Osama before they became our "enemies". They're not the only puppets used by us either.

You KNEW it?! Holy shyt, YOU'RE a prophet of god too! All praise the all-knowing, KOK!

Yes I knew that you would do that which is why I framed the question the way I did. But praise God Almighty my friend. God is deserving of all praise, honor, and glory. Not me, the servant of God.

Yes, exactly. Is that what you think atheists do all day, just sin?

I think I would have said that is what atheists do all day if I thought so. Nonetheless it is the ONLY thing that a believer cant partake in that an atheist can. Well I guess atheists CANT as well, but they'll have to find that out the hard way unless repentance comes in.

But that is why I asked what would a believer miss out on other than sins. Did you have an answer my brother?
 
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NoMayo15

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You dont know how control of the media (where people get there news from not to mention IDEAS) would correlate to a one world gov't? The media pushes agendas all the time. When the time comes where it can be used as a "solution" you will see the same media push for it. I've told you already that the PEOPLE behind it are the danger. Not just the fact that its a "one world government".

A solution for what? Again, you're not saying anything. It's the same as the "prophecies" you're making. Trash, really. Useless.

Could have happened? What does that matter? What we DO HAVE is the dead sea scrolls which corroborate the translations we have today. Are there mistranslations? Yes. But the Spirit of the bible is whats important. And I dont mean the "book" having a spirit. I mean the Spirit that is behind the texts
.

It matters because things in the bible aren't confirmed information as absolute truth. You BELIEVE it is, but there hasn't been any way to determine how things like this came to be true. You assume that since the author (according to you) believes god revealed it to them that it confirms it as divine prophecy. Nobody can validate that claim.

Except, Hinduism worshiped many gods along with the "supreme" one. Zoroastrianism consists of 2 equal gods. Havent heard too much about sikhism. Nonetheless it stands as I stated. Which one of these belief systems have 5 fulfilled prophecies AT LEAST? None of them to my knowledge. Thats the thing with the God of Abraham. There are things OUTSIDE of the text that you can point to. You know like Israel existing again? Or Abraham's name being great (famous) around the world? Or how about the fact that we have 7 billion people (of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) that branch out from what was given to the Hebrews? Theres more where that came from as well. But if you say theres "nothing unique" than we should find these same things (or similar) in the religions you named. So wheres the prophecies in those? What are the things outside of the texts we can point to?

It doesn't matter. They may or may not have predictions like this.... so what? The point is there are religious texts outside bible that have things like this. Not to mention prophecies that haven't come true... and prophecies that were wrong. Not all 7 billion people on the Earth today believe in an Abrahamic religion, so what are you even talking about?


Before I respond, let me say I dont care if I look like a "jackass" to a bunch of atheists. You dont seem to understand that you'll eventually see what I was talking about. I care if you believe me, but its on you to make that decision. Nonetheless, yall will see what NOT believing in God gets you. Hopefully you'll do as I suggested and seek humbly for God Almighty to see if God will reveal Itself to you. But if you dont, again that is on you. Im sure this is the most extensive warning you've gotten up to this point.

Of course...more of the "hey, someone said this will happen... it hasn't happened yet, but just you wait!". It's horse shyt dude. ANYONE can make a prediction, as long as it has an infinite timeline. That's not gonna convince anyone.... unless you're a dumbass. Also... threats of hell isn't convincing either. You don't concern yourself with threatsfrom OTHER religions so... who cares? Lastly... from as far as I can tell, your god is imaginary. You've given nothing except no other gods are like your god, and people have predicted things and said it's because god told them...................you really think that would convince someone?

Now onto your video. It still doesnt accurately depict why it came down the way it did. The top floors falling on the bottom ones is not going to cause it to fall in the manner it did. So your "hypothesis" (because thats all it is, since you're trying to defend the mystery around it as nothing) doesnt hold much weight





But I see you're just gonna keep fighting this. Doesnt matter that it fell straight on itself like a demolition. Doesnt matter if jet fuel cannot reach the amount of heat it would take to melt steel. None of that matters because "there was damage". This damage somehow caused the building to fall in the same manner of demolitions. The fact of the matter is that there are some questions that went unanswered with 9/11. For you to admit knowing that the media is owned by few companies, and then TRUST these companies to tell the truth is on onehand shocking but the otherhand expected. The same ones you're defending are the ones holding people back. Not the people like me who are trying to expose evil for what it is.


It doesn't have to explain why it came down the way it did. Sometimes when builings fall, they fall like this. It doesn't have to be "controlled" to do this. And hey, sometimes when they are "controlled" they don't fall straight down either! If you think so, then you need to PROVE that this is the way it happened. We already know that buildings can fall in a multitude of ways. They're only "controlled" by physics ... the laws of nature. Sure this one HAPPENS to look like demolitions look... but that's irrelevant. That doesn't mean a demolition happened here.

So give that single parent the money. Not the millionaires lol. But of course our gov't didnt do that. Instead lets bail out the already well-off banksters and leave the common people to sip up some of that "trickle down money". Some people benefitted from the bank bailouts Im sure. Just as Im sure some will benefit from Obamacare. Heck all it takes is one major injury/illness that requires expensive surgery and you can say the cost of Obamacare fulfilled its "purpose". I just dont think it should be mandatory with tax penalties if not adhered to. That shows me that theres something else to it. In the case of the bank bailouts, its common sense that the banks benefitted the most out of it which was my point in the beginning

Wait. So you agree? A single-parent mother who's given money so she doesn't lose her house is in better shape than the wealthy banker who's given money to save the major bank, right?

Good to see that you see what Im saying my friend. Just because God can choose an instance to take out someone's free will, doesnt mean in all other instances that the person's free will doesnt exist.

If god can choose an instance, he can choose any instance, and we are prisoners to his will. He could make me believe, but hasn't.
 
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NoMayo15

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I didnt say they should or shouldnt (though promoting VALUES and MORALS would go a LONG way for this world). YOUR point in the beginning was that the leaders believe in the God of Abraham. I was just showing you if that was the case, that would be represented in the media. But its not.

No, this is wrong. One, the media DOES promote values... they just happen to be secular. One value of this country is the first amendment. Freedom of press, religion, etc, etc... Leaders DO believe in your religion but understand that since we have a secular government, we're not bound by the morals of the Abrahamic religions. Any law that agree with you on a religion basis has, for the most part, deemed unconstitutional, and stricken down. People in this country decidedt hat religion should be kept PRIVATE and PERSONAL....Believe what you want about god, I don't care, but don't make law based on it. Again, the media promotes secular values, some I agree with and some I don't.

WTF dude... are you seriously saying Reagan and Nixon agreed with the content of rap music because it's played on the radio? Are you really that much of a mental midget?



My point was that I wouldnt trust a family that is rooted in governance, that has shown time and time again that it cannot be trusted. That was without going thru George W. Sr.'s questionable actions himself. If a family governed us, you should look at the family as an entity. If the father and son lied and cheated you, would you put your guard up when the grandson came? Or just be like "well I cant judge him for what his father did"? See me, I would put my guard up and then when the grandson proved himself worthy of my trust, then he would gain it. Till then, he has to make up for what his father and grandfather did and didnt do. Heck America was (allegedly) started off people revolting off family governance (the monarchy). Now it would have been stupid for them to assume the son (who was probably raised to follow in the SAME footsteps of his father) would just turn off that programming for their benefit right? I would think so. Anyways I was just showing you that the men that have stated the need for a "new world order" have questionable activities. Therefore I personally would not trust them in what they're doing. That is without mentioning the bible which has something to say about it. Its also without mentioning that they are puppets for the real playmakers in life.

Don't trust a family that can't be trusted? Can you get any more circular, please?

The UN? :mjlol: You think they're going to call out America on anything? Of course not. Most countries arent. Thats why they can go do as they please in other countries with disregard for "justice" and "freedom" that they're supposed to be protecting. Its no coincidence that we had dealings with Saddam and Osama before they became our "enemies". They're not the only puppets used by us either.

No.... but I'm not going to appeal to some random no-name group either.


Yes I knew that you would do that which is why I framed the question the way I did. But praise God Almighty my friend. God is deserving of all praise, honor, and glory. Not me, the servant of God.
Whatever, nikka.


I think I would have said that is what atheists do all day if I thought so. Nonetheless it is the ONLY thing that a believer cant partake in that an atheist can. Well I guess atheists CANT as well, but they'll have to find that out the hard way unless repentance comes in.

But that is why I asked what would a believer miss out on other than sins. Did you have an answer my brother?

But wtf are you talking about.... believers sin JUST as much as atheists. The ONLY difference is believers think they just need to apologize to some god and can go to heaven.

But no, if you're wrong you waste time and money that could have gone to doing actual good that you spent towards believing in a lie.
 

Everythingg

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A solution for what? Again, you're not saying anything. It's the same as the "prophecies" you're making. Trash, really. Useless.

.

Theres nothing left to say on this matter my friend. Bush announced it (ironically 10 or 11 years BEFORE 9/11 ) and then said they'll be successful in what they want to accomplish. Next up... Look up the Georgia Guidestones.


It matters because things in the bible aren't confirmed information as absolute truth. You BELIEVE it is, but there hasn't been any way to determine how things like this came to be true. You assume that since the author (according to you) believes god revealed it to them that it confirms it as divine prophecy. Nobody can validate that claim.

Nah. You're just grasping at straws amigo. See you said "dark figures" could have edited the bible. I then said "we found the dead sea scrolls" So brethren would have had to have found the dead sea scrolls, then edited them. Do you believe that? No. Because you dont believe that "dark figures" have any hand in the way the world was shaped based on our conversation. So none of what you just said eliminates the FACT that Israel ceased to exist (just as the prophets said it would) and then was regathered to their land (just as the prophets said would happen).


It doesn't matter. They may or may not have predictions like this.... so what? The point is there are religious texts outside bible that have things like this. Not to mention prophecies that haven't come true... and prophecies that were wrong. Not all 7 billion people on the Earth today believe in an Abrahamic religion, so what are you even talking about?

Exactly. You keep trying to compare other religions to what was given to Israel. But when I ask you to bring some of the same things from these other religons I have brought from what was given to Israel what happens? You go blank.

Oh and my numbers were wrong. I was referring to Muslim, Christian and Jews (which are in the billions) that all bank off the Hebrews just as Ezekiel (or Jeremiah cant remember at the moment) said would happen.

Of course...more of the "hey, someone said this will happen... it hasn't happened yet, but just you wait!". It's horse shyt dude. ANYONE can make a prediction, as long as it has an infinite timeline. That's not gonna convince anyone.... unless you're a dumbass. Also... threats of hell isn't convincing either. You don't concern yourself with threatsfrom OTHER religions so... who cares? Lastly... from as far as I can tell, your god is imaginary. You've given nothing except no other gods are like your god, and people have predicted things and said it's because god told them...................you really think that would convince someone?

I dont "concern myself with threats from other religions" because these other religions admittedly say that their god was created in some manner. Therefore, I understand, that the beings these religions worship are not God.

Now what prophecies have not been fulfilled my friend? I'll wait for you to google that lol :mjpls:
It doesn't have to explain why it came down the way it did. Sometimes when builings fall, they fall like this. It doesn't have to be "controlled" to do this. And hey, sometimes when they are "controlled" they don't fall straight down either! If you think so, then you need to PROVE that this is the way it happened. We already know that buildings can fall in a multitude of ways. They're only "controlled" by physics ... the laws of nature. Sure this one HAPPENS to look like demolitions look... but that's irrelevant. That doesn't mean a demolition happened here.

"It doesnt have to explain why it came down the way it did"

:mjlol: I think you're getting lost in the argument now. Ummm... yes it does. If you just said that the 95th floor fell on the 94th floor and that caused it to fall the way it did. THATS EXACTLY what you're trying to do. Explain why it came down the way it did. But its a weak argument. You bring up physics but physics doesnt support what you have brought to the table. AT ALL. The FACT is that the way the building fell is the way a demolition building fell. Not to mention the video of explosions that you avoided (conveniently I might add). But see, Im not trying to win at this my friend. Im just offering you and your brethren/sisters that read this a chance to SEEK what I say. But you're not doing that at all.

Wait. So you agree? A single-parent mother who's given money so she doesn't lose her house is in better shape than the wealthy banker who's given money to save the major bank, right?

Umm no. They could have GAVE that single parent the money instead of giving the bank so the bank can LOAN IT AT INTEREST. Dont you think that would have been better? I'll probably see you try to say no it wouldnt and explain why the gov't's way was better. But at the end of the day breh, the banks benefitted the MOST from the bailouts out of everyone. Thats been my point since the beginning. You trying to stretch it to some other unrelated tangent won't change that my friend.

If god can choose an instance, he can choose any instance, and we are prisoners to his will. He could make me believe, but hasn't.

I never said God's will wasnt above everyone elses. What I did say is that just because God CAN intervene at any given moment, doesn't mean we dont have free will at all other moments.

As well, its not about FORCING you to believe. But you CHOOSING to or CHOOSING not to. Of course there are other variables that come into this, but thats why God Almighty has sent servants throughout the times.
 

Everythingg

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No, this is wrong. One, the media DOES promote values... they just happen to be secular. One value of this country is the first amendment. Freedom of press, religion, etc, etc... Leaders DO believe in your religion but understand that since we have a secular government, we're not bound by the morals of the Abrahamic religions. Any law that agree with you on a religion basis has, for the most part, deemed unconstitutional, and stricken down. People in this country decidedt hat religion should be kept PRIVATE and PERSONAL....Believe what you want about god, I don't care, but don't make law based on it. Again, the media promotes secular values, some I agree with and some I don't.

WTF dude... are you seriously saying Reagan and Nixon agreed with the content of rap music because it's played on the radio? Are you really that much of a mental midget?

You really need to step up your politics knowledge up. I dont mean "turn on the TV and watch CNN" politickin either lol But the REAL game that the media (which you allegedly already knew was owned be the same few companies) hides from people. Again, if the leaders believed in the God of Abraham, that would be promoted PERIOD. They wouldnt promote values OPPOSITE of the God they (allegedly) worship. You said the people that helped bring Israel to a nation again, believed in the God of Abraham. So why arent they following God's commandments in that land? Why is their a PAGAN star on the flag? That would be because they have their own intentions which will ultimately fail in the long run. These "intentions" are not in the best interest of us which is why they hide themselves from the public. Now, where did I say anything of Reagan and Nixon in connection with rap music? I didnt at ALL. I see that you project things that may deal with yourself (mental midget) onto me lol. Now, did you address the fact that leaders are reported to go to the Bohemian Grove and theres an owl there? An owl like Molech, the idol some Israelites worshiped in the bible (against the God of Israel's wishes)? No you didnt. Because it pokes a hole in your belief that they worship the same God I do. We all stumble and fall in one way or another but that is more like falling off a cliff.

I dont know if its worth it to go thru it but I'll do it anyways because of possible readers and for my own sake. Music is owned by corporations my brother. So the music you hear in the mainstream is PROMOTED by these corporations. So why would these corporations promote music OPPOSITE to what they believe in? Why would they invest millions if not BILLIONS of dollars into promoting music that is DIRECTLY against the commandments and judgements given to Israel? Because they dont believe in what you're saying they do. Because if they did, it would simply be promoted in the media. Because thats what the God of Abraham would suggest. The God of Abraham would not (according to what was given to Israel) suggest that they promote OPPOSITE values to the judgements given to Israel. Take a look at this pic:

original.jpg

You see how things are controlled? Lets look at Dawn and Tide which are BOTH owned by Proctor and Gamble. See without this figure, we would think that these are 2 different businesses competing with each other. But in all actuality (according to the huff post) they're owned by the same company. This is the same thing with the media. Mostly owned by the same companies. But here we have you defending them as if they present facts to the people.

:rudy:

Don't trust a family that can't be trusted? Can you get any more circular, please?



No.... but I'm not going to appeal to some random no-name group either.

Making one-sentence replies and ignoring what I've stated doesnt hide the truth my brother. America as we know it was STARTED off revolting off family governance (monarchy). But here you are saying that we shouldnt judge the son off what the father did. If the son, PROVES himself to be 100 then I am in 100% agreement with you. But till then, I would look at him with the side-eye. But the son (in the case of GWB) has questionable activities in itself. So that "side-eye" goes out the window honestly.

My point in all this was that the person that stated the "new world order" (and theres more where that came from because it wasnt only Bush that said it) has a questionable character when it comes governance. So putting absolute trust in him is pretty ridiculous. But you'll defend them, while they couldn't care less about the either of us. Its pretty funny yet sad at the same time.

Whatever, nikka.

:mjpls:


But wtf are you talking about.... believers sin JUST as much as atheists. The ONLY difference is believers think they just need to apologize to some god and can go to heaven.

But no, if you're wrong you waste time and money that could have gone to doing actual good that you spent towards believing in a lie.

This isnt an argument of "who sins more". I'm sure there are atheists out there that sin less than people that proclaim to believe in God and of course, vice vera. That doesnt answer my question and neither did your three sentences above.

What would believers miss out on because they were not atheist? You still have not brought anything to the table.
 

NoMayo15

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Nah. You're just grasping at straws amigo. See you said "dark figures" could have edited the bible. I then said "we found the dead sea scrolls" So brethren would have had to have found the dead sea scrolls, then edited them. Do you believe that? No. Because you dont believe that "dark figures" have any hand in the way the world was shaped based on our conversation. So none of what you just said eliminates the FACT that Israel ceased to exist (just as the prophets said it would) and then was regathered to their land (just as the prophets said would happen).

I was bringing up hypothetical scenarios that could have been responsible. No, I don't think there's this secret group of men planning church secrets and one world governments. I was trying to demonstrate how ridiculous it is to believe the only way scripture could point to a true event is if god knew it, and somehow told a few people.

Exactly. You keep trying to compare other religions to what was given to Israel. But when I ask you to bring some of the same things from these other religons I have brought from what was given to Israel what happens? You go blank.

Those examples have already been brought up by other posters. You say its interesting, and leave it at that. I don't speak for those religions and can't give well informed explanations of specific details of their holy books. My only point is something like prophecy is not enough to reasonably conclude the text or religion divine.

Oh and my numbers were wrong. I was referring to Muslim, Christian and Jews (which are in the billions) that all bank off the Hebrews just as Ezekiel (or Jeremiah cant remember at the moment) said would happen.

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

I dont "concern myself with threats from other religions" because these other religions admittedly say that their god was created in some manner. Therefore, I understand, that the beings these religions worship are not God.

Now what prophecies have not been fulfilled my friend? I'll wait for you to google that lol

Hm, not true. What about the religions that believe in a creator god? What difference does it make if its poly or monotheistic?

Oh, I don't know... how about Jesus returning, for example.

I think you're getting lost in the argument now. Ummm... yes it does. If you just said that the 95th floor fell on the 94th floor and that caused it to fall the way it did. THATS EXACTLY what you're trying to do. Explain why it came down the way it did. But its a weak argument. You bring up physics but physics doesnt support what you have brought to the table. AT ALL. The FACT is that the way the building fell is the way a demolition building fell. Not to mention the video of explosions that you avoided (conveniently I might add). But see, Im not trying to win at this my friend. Im just offering you and your brethren/sisters that read this a chance to SEEK what I say. But you're not doing that at all.

Aiight then, believe what you want.

Umm no. They could have GAVE that single parent the money instead of giving the bank so the bank can LOAN IT AT INTEREST. Dont you think that would have been better? I'll probably see you try to say no it wouldnt and explain why the gov't's way was better. But at the end of the day breh, the banks benefitted the MOST from the bailouts out of everyone. Thats been my point since the beginning. You trying to stretch it to some other unrelated tangent won't change that my friend.

Fair enough.


I never said God's will wasnt above everyone elses. What I did say is that just because God CAN intervene at any given moment, doesn't mean we dont have free will at all other moments.

As well, its not about FORCING you to believe. But you CHOOSING to or CHOOSING not to. Of course there are other variables that come into this, but thats why God Almighty has sent servants throughout the times.

Alright.
 

NoMayo15

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You really need to step up your politics knowledge up. I dont mean "turn on the TV and watch CNN" politickin either lol But the REAL game that the media (which you allegedly already knew was owned be the same few companies) hides from people. Again, if the leaders believed in the God of Abraham, that would be promoted PERIOD. They wouldnt promote values OPPOSITE of the God they (allegedly) worship. You said the people that helped bring Israel to a nation again, believed in the God of Abraham. So why arent they following God's commandments in that land? Why is their a PAGAN star on the flag? That would be because they have their own intentions which will ultimately fail in the long run. These "intentions" are not in the best interest of us which is why they hide themselves from the public. Now, where did I say anything of Reagan and Nixon in connection with rap music? I didnt at ALL. I see that you project things that may deal with yourself (mental midget) onto me lol. Now, did you address the fact that leaders are reported to go to the Bohemian Grove and theres an owl there? An owl like Molech, the idol some Israelites worshiped in the bible (against the God of Israel's wishes)? No you didnt. Because it pokes a hole in your belief that they worship the same God I do. We all stumble and fall in one way or another but that is more like falling off a cliff.

I dont know if its worth it to go thru it but I'll do it anyways because of possible readers and for my own sake. Music is owned by corporations my brother. So the music you hear in the mainstream is PROMOTED by these corporations. So why would these corporations promote music OPPOSITE to what they believe in? Why would they invest millions if not BILLIONS of dollars into promoting music that is DIRECTLY against the commandments and judgements given to Israel? Because they dont believe in what you're saying they do. Because if they did, it would simply be promoted in the media. Because thats what the God of Abraham would suggest. The God of Abraham would not (according to what was given to Israel) suggest that they promote OPPOSITE values to the judgements given to Israel. Take a look at this pic:

You see how things are controlled? Lets look at Dawn and Tide which are BOTH owned by Proctor and Gamble. See without this figure, we would think that these are 2 different businesses competing with each other. But in all actuality (according to the huff post) they're owned by the same company. This is the same thing with the media. Mostly owned by the same companies. But here we have you defending them as if they present facts to the people.

But the leaders do promote the God of Abraham. They don't make overt legislation on it, but they talk about it all the time..... Hmmm okay wait, we seem to be talking about different things, so when you say rap music in the media what specifically do you mean? You've changed what we were talking about from "leaders" promoting music, to "corporations". So which is it?

Making one-sentence replies and ignoring what I've stated doesnt hide the truth my brother. America as we know it was STARTED off revolting off family governance (monarchy). But here you are saying that we shouldnt judge the son off what the father did. If the son, PROVES himself to be 100 then I am in 100% agreement with you. But till then, I would look at him with the side-eye. But the son (in the case of GWB) has questionable activities in itself. So that "side-eye" goes out the window honestly.

Nah man, these posts are getting so long and drawn out that I can't even respond to you in a single post because of the character limit. You've covered a multitude of topics from 9/11 conspiracies to hip-hop. I don't have the time, nor stamina to deal with this drivel. I still have no idea, from my original response, why you're quote-mining Bush Sr., and are afraid of some "new world order" ... whatever you think he was talking about when he says that.

My point in all this was that the person that stated the "new world order" (and theres more where that came from because it wasnt only Bush that said it) has a questionable character when it comes governance. So putting absolute trust in him is pretty ridiculous. But you'll defend them, while they couldn't care less about the either of us. Its pretty funny yet sad at the same time.

He has questionable character.... why? Because his father might have done business with someone who held extremist right wing views, and some obscure group in Malaysia disagreed with his son's foreign policy? Alright then, fair enough...

This isnt an argument of "who sins more". I'm sure there are atheists out there that sin less than people that proclaim to believe in God and of course, vice vera. That doesnt answer my question and neither did your three sentences above.

What would believers miss out on because they were not atheist? You still have not brought anything to the table.

Clearly you didn't read the second half .... there's plenty but the short of it is what I said above:

..if you're wrong you waste time and money that could have gone to doing actual good that you spent towards believing in a lie.
 

Everythingg

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But the leaders do promote the God of Abraham. They don't make overt legislation on it, but they talk about it all the time..... Hmmm okay wait, we seem to be talking about different things, so when you say rap music in the media what specifically do you mean? You've changed what we were talking about from "leaders" promoting music, to "corporations". So which is it?

No my friend. For one, SAYING one thing but doing another is not being about what one is SAYING. Thats being a liar. Second, saying "god" does not mean that one is referring to the same Being (who is the Source of All Existence) that I am. Some people call a variety of things that are not "G-D", "god". As well, not making overt legislation is proof of the belief that they don't promote it. I mean you see gay marriage being passed through legislation right? Is that not the OPPOSITE of the values presented in the bible? It not being in the media, is also proof of it.

You sure you didnt know what I meant mainstream rap? The rap music that the majority of the people listen to is what I meant. This rap music that has billions of dollars sunk into it to promote it. Yet, I do not hear the music representing values of God. But according to you, the people that instituted the state of Israel (which was RICH men using nations. Look it up) believe in and serve the God of Abraham. I'm saying this sentiment doesnt match the reality I'm seeing.

Corporations and your leaders are working towards the same goal. You said you know lobbying exists? You think its your "average" man and woman dropping stacks on politicians? Plus, I was showing you was that you are offered "choices" that arent really choices at all. That was with products. I already told you about the same thing being the case with the media. Thats without mentioning how many presidents we have had that are related at the least distantly. But you're covering your eyes and closing your ears to the "mystery" of what Im saying...

I was bringing up hypothetical scenarios that could have been responsible. No, I don't think there's this secret group of men planning church secrets and one world governments. I was trying to demonstrate how ridiculous it is to believe the only way scripture could point to a true event is if god knew it, and somehow told a few people.

Well as I said, you could do some reading on REAL politics and not the one the media presents that you said . The Vatican has an obviously shaken history as well. And prophecy has to do with it my friend.

Isaiah 46:10
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'

So when you see something happened, that was said to happen, thats an example of PROOF. Not the only one though.


Those examples have already been brought up by other posters. You say its interesting, and leave it at that. I don't speak for those religions and can't give well informed explanations of specific details of their holy books. My only point is something like prophecy is not enough to reasonably conclude the text or religion divine.

No theres been one example brought from buddhism that doesnt even have a definitive source if you research it. Not to mention a separate interpretation than the one he presented. I understand you DONT want to believe though so if thats where you want to go with your free will then I suppose thats where you'll go with it. I would think understanding the existence of a Creator that is able to destroy all the existence would be important(consider the amount of nations that somehow have a story of the earth being flooded). Especially with the facts presented in this thread. But I guess for your case its not important.


Not sure what you're trying to say here.

Billions of people have came to a tiny nation of Israel (when compared to other major civilizations like Persia, Greece, Egypt, Rome etc...) to learn about their God is simply what Im getting at. The idols of the other nations, have not done what the God of Israel have done. Which is why when I ask for a prophecy from another religion I get a flimsy one at best.

Hm, not true. What about the religions that believe in a creator god? What difference does it make if its poly or monotheistic?

Oh, I don't know... how about Jesus returning, for example.

I've already told you about the spirits behind other religions. All created or simply images. Bring a specific one and I can go further if you would like.

And ok lets talk about we'll say the "son of man" since "Jesus" wasnt his name (so anyone coming back as "Jesus" would be suspect but not guilty). Why would you expect the "son of man" to come back ahead of the timeline he gave for his return?

Aiight then, believe what you want.

Of course. Its you I'm worried about my friend.
 
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Everythingg

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Nah man, these posts are getting so long and drawn out that I can't even respond to you in a single post because of the character limit. You've covered a multitude of topics from 9/11 conspiracies to hip-hop. I don't have the time, nor stamina to deal with this drivel. I still have no idea, from my original response, why you're quote-mining Bush Sr., and are afraid of some "new world order" ... whatever you think he was talking about when he says that.

He has questionable character.... why? Because his father might have done business with someone who held extremist right wing views, and some obscure group in Malaysia disagreed with his son's foreign policy? Alright then, fair enough...

Go back to sleep if you're sleepy my brother. Go back to serving people that could careless about you. Go back to living for a paycheck without considering the corruption of your surroundings. I've said enough of why you shouldnt trust the person that stated the "new world order". I've pointed out that his father (A REPRESENTATIVE in the US Senate) supporting Hitler. It all means nothing.None of it points to gov't corruption. Thats without mentioning

I've pointed out plenty of things breh. But you're not intaking it. Just reading, then post a rebuttal. Read, post a rebuttal. Go back, and look up what Im saying and show me what I was wrong about. If you understood the ramifications of EARTH (let alone the spiritual ramifications) you would look it up. This has, and will affect you in one way or another. If not, as I've said you'll see for yourself.

Ah the "fair enough" response when you've been shown what you didnt want to be shown?

Clearly you didn't read the second half .... there's plenty but the short of it is what I said above:

..if you're wrong you waste time and money that could have gone to doing actual good that you spent towards believing in a lie.

"Waste time and money"

But atheists waste both of these as well right? So what are believers missing out on by being not being atheist? It cant be anything concerning "wasting time and money" because atheists do this in one way or another as well. Another unanswered question
 
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