Religion/Spirituality For atheists: What would God have to do to prove to you that he's real?

[tmonster]

God is the reason all things exist. How does that show God not caring?

classic:zfg:

 

[NoMayo15]

The same friends that send our fellow Americans to pointless wars, the same friends that own the media, are the same ones trying to fulfill this goal. This has been a generational progress to the one government and its being successful because they can pay people off. When you're allowed to print money FREELY, than that gives you power to do what you want. For whatever reason you see nothing wrong with that and thats fine. It doesnt seem like you have a grasp on what the US does to other countries it doesnt agree with and WHY.

If you think American politicians are printing money strictly to maintain power and build a one world government, you don't have a grasp on what the US does and why.

Why should you believe in the God of Abraham? Well let me ask. Is there a difference between worshiping a planet, and worshiping the ONE that created the planet? Or switch planet with sun if you wish or any other figures that the Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Romans, Greeks... etc.. worshiped. These are civilzations that ruled over the world at one time or another. And yet from the TINY nation of Israel, came 7 billion people (Muslims, Jews, Christians). Theres something to be said about that my friend. Now Why would you believe that there is NOTHING to take from these stories?

Again, you didn't answer my question, but changed it to talk about ancient, dead religions. I'm asking specifically, if fulfilled prophecy is good reason to believe a faith is likely to be true, why do you dismiss this particular religion?

I don't think you can't take anything from the religions of the world. I grew up Christian, studied many different religions growing up, and think they each have something of value to contribute. You on the other hand take it to the extreme where a "prophecy" is proof a the text's divinity. The only thing that can be said about the vast amount of Muslims, Christians and Jews is that these groups over the years were better than others at suppressing differing views of theology. Just because a lot of people believe something, doesn't mean it's true, even if it originated from modest beginnings.

So it doesnt matter that 2 planes on 9/11hit in practically the same spot as the picture. It doesnt matter that somehow a plane hit the top of a building causing the building to fall STRAIGHT down. It doesnt matter that the media is pretty consistent on telling half truths/lies to further the same agenda. Nothing matters huh? No need for name calling

No. Mere coincidence. If the building fell sideways, someone like you would have posted a different drawing, and claim it predicted 9/11 attack. That's the problem with your reasoning. It's easy to make these conclusions after the fact, but it's not a prediction. You're selecting "evidence" that seems to fit what happened after the fact.

Now if you want to explain the physics of a building falling directly on itself like a demolition, you can. I dont think you will though. I dont think you will explain how a plane can hit the top of a building and then cause it to fall straight on itself. But like I said, some friends will defend things to their detriment. We'll see if your leaders have your best interest at heart. As well, its not about someone proving everything to you. Why dont you seek my friend? While there are some outrageous conspiracies, where there is smoke there is fire. But if you dont look, you wont find. And I can tell you havent even looked before forming an opinion.

No, I'm not interesting in talking anymore about this conspiracy. I thought there was something strange about Building 7, but this stuff has all been debunked. Neither you nor I are structural engineers, but the overwhelming people who are and have studied this mostly agree that it was entirely possible.

Because God does care my friend. But when we as humanity eliminate God from our lives and then let man rule us that allows corruption to leak in. And I know you dont believe that. You believe that life can come from something that wasnt alive?

You didn't answer my question of why you think God cares.

Aint nothing left to say about this my friend. If you dont see how a person can be corrupted to some of his/her constituents by having their campaign bankrolled by the rich than I dont know what else to say. This wasnt to show that God exists, but to show the direction your country is headed in. But if thats the direction you want it to go in, I just hope you dont have descendants. Because that is not leaving them with a nice setup.

I think there should be changes to campaign finance, but that's neither here nor there. We were talking about bailouts and government spending... which you think only benefits the rich; I disagree.

As well, in your scenario, the best bet would be use the money that was given to the banks, to give to the people. Of course that didnt happen though.

And yes, Im not going to excuse the exploitation going on because the people are not "starving to death" as if that is the only alternative. You're not excusing the corporations for their exploitation are you?

The banks are the people. A complete financial collapse fukks everyone. The business owner and the employee. It depends on what you mean by exploit. To some degree we're all being exploited because if your company paid you your true value to the company, then it wouldn't make a profit. But again, these are deep economic & philosophical arguments that I don't have time or patience to discuss with you.

Have to die? No. But as you're showing people will choose to defend it. Anybody that loses their life defending God will be rewarded in the next life. 70 years is miniscule in comparison with eternity.

Why wouldn't god change the minds of people who are fighting to create a one world government if he really loved and cared about their souls?

The government controlling the issue of money would be best in my opinion. So yes maybe if we elected them. Then again, the election process in this country is shakey in itself.

No they dont my friend. If they do believe in the God of Abraham, then they're being disobedient by the actions they're taking. But nah, this world would be COMPLETELY different if they believed in the God of Abraham, and followed the principles/judgements/laws given by this God. They dont. Which is why the US runs amuk in other countries. Instilling puppet leaders, taking out real ones. If the people that bankrolled Israel believed in the God of Israel, they would not have represented it with that pagan star. I mean I can go on and on, but theres really no point to.

God doesnt want robots my brethren. Its on you to seek. Now if you asked God to change your mind humbly, then it could happen. If you actually tried to get to know God on a personal level then it might. But I doubt (though God can do as God wants) that It would just change your mind out of nowhere.

smh. No true Scotsman. So I guess you never break god's law?

I dont see the point brethren.

Of course you don't, which is why you have these foolish beliefs. We have this thing called science, which is the single most reliable method we have to find out what's true about our universe. One of the key things the scientific method is based on is the ability for a hypothesis to be falsifiable. If something cannot be shown to likely be true or false, then it's useless. For example, its why we don't rely on psychic ability to solve murders. Psychics will say "oh, it doesn't work when tested, but still is true". If your prophecy was more specific or knew the exact year or something ... that would be something. But just saying at some point in history X will be destroyed then restored is not convincing.

 

[NoMayo15]

For the record @NoMayo15 you can disregard that last post since we werent discussing the NWO. I was just showing you that humans have an adversary that doesnt care much bout their existence.I was also showing that your gov't panders not to the general public, but to the interests of the few. Now, you can sit and wait for someone to prove this to you, or you can SEEK. You can look at what what you call "conspiracy theorists" look at and come to an conclusion. But from what you've implied, you're waiting for someone to prove it to you. And that may leave you waiting till its too late. But as I said, read the post (respectfully I say this not as a command) but dont waste time responding. Because thats not what I was actually trying to get into with that video. Just showing you that whats going to happen was planned long ago.



Have you sought for God? Or do you assume that God owes you something so before you believe, God has to do something for you?

How do you know what Bush is talking about is this one government you fear, and why do you fear it.

Of course I have. You come in with all these assumptions about me. I was a believer in Christ for the majority of my life. It wasn't until I actually investigated my beliefs that I realized I didn't have good reasons to believe these things. It wasn't JUST arguments against pascal's wager that convinced me, but a combination of things. You certainly aren't safer if you believe to "hedge your bets". You really think god would be convinced you sincerely worship him if you're just doing so for the greatest outcome in the afterlife?

 

[Everythingg]

Except you HAVE done this in the past. Someone gets tired of your bullshyt, and stops arguing with your fallacies, YOU say they ran scared and you win. You're so full of shyt.

God is the reason all things exist. How does that show God not caring?

classic:zfg:

 

[Everythingg]

If you think American politicians are printing money strictly to maintain power and build a one world government, you don't have a grasp on what the US does and why.

Not politicians friend. They are puppets.

Again, you didn't answer my question, but changed it to talk about ancient, dead religions. I'm asking specifically, if fulfilled prophecy is good reason to believe a faith is likely to be true, why do you dismiss this particular religion?

I don't think you can't take anything from the religions of the world. I grew up Christian, studied many different religions growing up, and think they each have something of value to contribute. You on the other hand take it to the extreme where a "prophecy" is proof a the text's divinity. The only thing that can be said about the vast amount of Muslims, Christians and Jews is that these groups over the years were better than others at suppressing differing views of theology. Just because a lot of people believe something, doesn't mean it's true, even if it originated from modest beginnings.

It is a good reason friend. But its not the only reason. What else can you give me from Buddhism that matches the prophecies I said?

No. Mere coincidence. If the building fell sideways, someone like you would have posted a different drawing, and claim it predicted 9/11 attack. That's the problem with your reasoning. It's easy to make these conclusions after the fact, but it's not a prediction. You're selecting "evidence" that seems to fit what happened after the fact.

PHYSICS says that it would not fall straight down unless demolition was involved. You like science right? What about here my friend?

The act was questionable and the cards add more to the mystique. Plane hitting in a similar spot? Something is up with what happened my friend. And these arent the only event that seem like that

No, I'm not interesting in talking anymore about this conspiracy. I thought there was something strange about Building 7, but this stuff has all been debunked. Neither you nor I are structural engineers, but the overwhelming people who are and have studied this mostly agree that it was entirely possible.

No Just no....

You didn't answer my question of why you think God cares.



I think there should be changes to campaign finance, but that's neither here nor there. We were talking about bailouts and government spending... which you think only benefits the rich; I disagree.

Because God said so. And when Israel obeyed God, they were well off. When they disobeyed, they it was the opposite. So what one reads and takes from them going through that, is that when we obey God, it will be better for us than we disobey.

"Thats neither here nor there". Arent we discussing corruption in the gov't? That is a prime example. And bailouts and government spending do benefit the rich. I never said it ONLY benefits the rich. The bailout to the banks and car companies are greater than the bailouts you're talking about the people receiving. I dont know why you're trying to compare them as if they're equal in significance. Either way, I didnt say they ONLY benefit the rich.

The banks are the people. A complete financial collapse fukks everyone. The business owner and the employee. It depends on what you mean by exploit. To some degree we're all being exploited because if your company paid you your true value to the company, then it wouldn't make a profit. But again, these are deep economic & philosophical arguments that I don't have time or patience to discuss with you.

So what "bonuses" did the people receive of the bailout money? Please friend. The banks get the money and lend out more loans which sucks in some people that cannot or will not be able to repay said loan. The BANKS benefitted from the bailout not the people showing that there is a difference.

Why wouldn't god change the minds of people who are fighting to create a one world government if he really loved and cared about their souls?




smh. No true Scotsman. So I guess you never break god's law?



Of course you don't, which is why you have these foolish beliefs. We have this thing called science, which is the single most reliable method we have to find out what's true about our universe. One of the key things the scientific method is based on is the ability for a hypothesis to be falsifiable. If something cannot be shown to likely be true or false, then it's useless. For example, its why we don't rely on psychic ability to solve murders. Psychics will say "oh, it doesn't work when tested, but still is true". If your prophecy was more specific or knew the exact year or something ... that would be something. But just saying at some point in history X will be destroyed then restored is not convincing.

Free will. If they know the truth but fall for the lie then that is on their souls. They have or will have been warned of what they're doing.

Doesnt matter if I've broken the law or not. The fact is that the world is a mess. The media is a mess. When the people in charge ACTIVELY support this (remember the few companies that own most of the media) in the media then what else am I supposed to do but call out evil? That doesnt mean that Im saying they're going to hell. That is between them and God Almighty and whoever God Almighty gives the authority to judge . With that said, I can call out evil actions when they're done in my presence. Especially when lives are at stake.

You cant test God my friend. But God did leave you clues to where you could start to seek. The prophecy doesnt have to give an exact date to be legitimate. What we have is a prophecy on Israel being scattered (happened) and then another prophecy about Israel being regathered (happened). Thats concrete my friend. Now our ancestors that lived before 1948 could say "Where is Israel now, like the prophets prophesied? But we cant. We see that. We see that it was destroyed but not to completion. Then we saw it was gathered back to the SAME land that was promised to Abraham. This is without mentioning OTHER prophecies that were fulfilled as well. But as I said, people can choose to cover their eyes and then come up for excuses for why its not right. But it doesnt eliminate the FACT, that what was said to happen, DID.

 

[Everythingg]

How do you know what Bush is talking about is this one government you fear, and why do you fear it.

Its hard to trust men who's father supported Hitler dont you think? And whose son was convicted of war crimes?

Of course I have. You come in with all these assumptions about me. I was a believer in Christ for the majority of my life. It wasn't until I actually investigated my beliefs that I realized I didn't have good reasons to believe these things. It wasn't JUST arguments against pascal's wager that convinced me, but a combination of things.

What do you mean you didnt have good reasons to believe these things?

And whats your idea of a "believer in christ"?

You certainly aren't safer if you believe to "hedge your bets". You really think god would be convinced you sincerely worship him if you're just doing so for the greatest outcome in the afterlife?

I dont "hedge my bets". The reason Im believing isnt because I want to go to heaven. God for whatever reason, chose me for this purpose. Growing up I went to church believed Jesus died for my sins and yadda yadda yadda. But I didnt have a PERSONAL relationship with God. I didnt think about God. I didnt consider what God would want me to do in certain situations. I just "said" that I believed. When I started doing these things, thats when God started to reveal Itself in my life. Thats when I understood what Jesus meant by "seek and you shall find". But I still havent stopped. There are still things I can learn and things that I can get better at. But I dont do that to get a reward. Just as when Im under my dad's roof, I obey his rules. Not so I can stay there but because thats my dad. When I found out who my REAL Parent was, it was the same thing. When Im on my Parent in heaven's creation, I will try do as God Almighty says. I do fall but the righteous man gets right back up and tries again. And thats what I've been doing..

 

[tmonster]

 

[NoMayo15]

Not politicians friend. They are puppets.

For whom?

It is a good reason friend. But its not the only reason. What else can you give me from Buddhism that matches the prophecies I said?

Okay so what's the best reason to believe your religion is true?

PHYSICS says that it would not fall straight down unless demolition was involved. You like science right? What about here my friend?

The act was questionable and the cards add more to the mystique. Plane hitting in a similar spot? Something is up with what happened my friend. And these arent the only event that seem like that

Again, scientists/engineers disagree with you.

No Just no....

You are a retard.

Because God said so.

How do you know?

"Thats neither here nor there". Arent we discussing corruption in the gov't? That is a prime example. And bailouts and government spending do benefit the rich. I never said it ONLY benefits the rich. The bailout to the banks and car companies are greater than the bailouts you're talking about the people receiving. I dont know why you're trying to compare them as if they're equal in significance. Either way, I didnt say they ONLY benefit the rich.

So what "bonuses" did the people receive of the bailout money? Please friend. The banks get the money and lend out more loans which sucks in some people that cannot or will not be able to repay said loan. The BANKS benefitted from the bailout not the people showing that there is a difference.

Sure bailouts benefit the rich, my point was it benefits middle class people too.

What about the people who are able to increase their capital because of that loan and are able to pay the bank back? You view the world as if the little guy always loses because evil banks. Lets not forget these banks paid back that money loaned to them. Major industries didn't crash, and as a results EVERY DAY PEOPLE didn't find themselves out of a job. Sure, there were some losses, but the overall net gain of those bailouts were beneficial to the American working class.

Free will. If they know the truth but fall for the lie then that is on their souls. They have or will have been warned of what they're doing.

So contradictory. How can a person have true free will if god can impede that any time he chooses? How can someone know something's true, but also think the inverse is true?

Doesnt matter if I've broken the law or not.

It does though. You have disobeyed God's word in the past, and you will most likely slip and do so in the future. You are not a true Christian by your own logic.

You cant test God my friend. But God did leave you clues to where you could start to seek. The prophecy doesnt have to give an exact date to be legitimate. What we have is a prophecy on Israel being scattered (happened) and then another prophecy about Israel being regathered (happened). Thats concrete my friend. Now our ancestors that lived before 1948 could say "Where is Israel now, like the prophets prophesied? But we cant. We see that. We see that it was destroyed but not to completion. Then we saw it was gathered back to the SAME land that was promised to Abraham. This is without mentioning OTHER prophecies that were fulfilled as well. But as I said, people can choose to cover their eyes and then come up for excuses for why its not right. But it doesnt eliminate the FACT, that what was said to happen, DID.

Okay.[DOUBLEPOST=1397430731][/DOUBLEPOST]

Its hard to trust men who's father supported Hitler dont you think? And whose son was convicted of war crimes?

How do you know what Bush is talking about is this one government you fear, and why do you fear it.

What do you mean you didnt have good reasons to believe these things?

And whats your idea of a "believer in christ"?

I believed things in Christian dogma were true despite the lack of evidence, or in the face of contradicting evidence.

Someone who believes Christ is the son of god, a part of god, and someone a person should strive to be like.

I dont "hedge my bets". The reason Im believing isnt because I want to go to heaven. God for whatever reason, chose me for this purpose. Growing up I went to church believed Jesus died for my sins and yadda yadda yadda. But I didnt have a PERSONAL relationship with God. I didnt think about God. I didnt consider what God would want me to do in certain situations. I just "said" that I believed. When I started doing these things, thats when God started to reveal Itself in my life. Thats when I understood what Jesus meant by "seek and you shall find". But I still havent stopped. There are still things I can learn and things that I can get better at. But I dont do that to get a reward. Just as when Im under my dad's roof, I obey his rules. Not so I can stay there but because thats my dad. When I found out who my REAL Parent was, it was the same thing. When Im on my Parent in heaven's creation, I will try do as God Almighty says. I do fall but the righteous man gets right back up and tries again. And thats what I've been doing..

Okay, fine, YOU personally have been convinced these things are true. But to believe (or say you believe) because its "safer" is dishonest, which is why Pascal's wager is a joke.

 

[Everythingg]

For whom?



Okay so what's the best reason to believe your religion is true?




Again, scientists/engineers disagree with you.


You are a retard.

You do know what "lobbying" is right? You do know that these men and women answer to men (and possibly women) that we dont see? Why dont you research what you claim "conspiracy theorists" spout on about? The simple fact that a few companies own most of the media should mean something to you.

To answer your question (even though you didnt answer mine) for one the prophecies are proof of something. But not only that its like I've told you before. When you read and understand the gods of other nations, you'd see that they had NO basis for being the Creator of All. Egypt, Babylon, Greeks, Romans etc.. all worshiped things like the sun, moon, stars, or things of wood and stone, or images etc.. but ISRAEL worshiped a Being that created all things in existence. And how do you now know that this God has some power? Well It told of the scattering and regathering of Israel. From there, you should try building faith off that to see if God will reveal Itself to you. Now since you ignored my question.

Is there anything else from buddhism that amounts to the 4 or 5 fulfilled prophecies that were mentioned in this thread?

Bring a "scientist/engineer" that explains how burning jet fuel can cause a 100+ story building to fall straight on itself. Breh you like science right? Why arent you exhibiting that here? Thats without mentioning the other building which fell for some random reason.

How do you know?

Read the word and pray on it. You'll come to the same answer if you're steadfast as well as humble. If you're expecting God to prove something to you (though God is ABSOLUTELY able to) when you're not humbly seeking, then you're mistaken.


How I know has to deal with my own experiences. Its hard to explain. But I do know that I have done some things in God's name that you probably wouldnt believe. Nonetheless I've seen enough in my own life and have experienced enough in my own life to know that a higher power has a purpose for me. This "higher power" I can only estimate is God.

Sure bailouts benefit the rich, my point was it benefits middle class people too.

What about the people who are able to increase their capital because of that loan and are able to pay the bank back? You view the world as if the little guy always loses because evil banks. Lets not forget these banks paid back that money loaned to them. Major industries didn't crash, and as a results EVERY DAY PEOPLE didn't find themselves out of a job. Sure, there were some losses, but the overall net gain of those bailouts were beneficial to the American working class.

Breh I dont know what you're arguing about. The bailouts benefitted the banks WAY more than anyone else. FACT. The FACT that they loan out money with interest proves that. So they got a free 700 billion or million (whichever it was) and then got to loan all (or some) of that money on interest. THAT benefits them moreso than anyone else.

Now insurance companies get a boost because everyone has to have health insurance. It seems never ending but it will my friend. Whether you or I fight it or go along with it.

So contradictory. How can a person have true free will if god can impede that any time he chooses? How can someone know something's true, but also think the inverse is true?


It does though. You have disobeyed God's word in the past, and you will most likely slip and do so in the future. You are not a true Christian by your own logic.

Everyone has free will to make decisions. But there are times where God can intercede on that free will for whatever reason. Not contradictory.

No it doesnt matter friend. While I fall, I do not lead others into falling. I dont go out and actively get people to fall. On the otherhand the few companies that own most of the media ACTIVELY promote it. Now why would they ACTIVELY PROMOTE what the bible is against, if in all actuality they were for what the bible represents? Are they trying to "trick" us into not following it by doing that? Or do they not actually follow the judgements of the God of Abraham? Really, breh, if our brethren who are our leaders believed in God Almighty, and follow Its judgements, we would see that in the media. Instead we see the opposite. And the adversary of God is.... SATAN


Btw Im not a christian so if by my logic you say Im not a christian, you are 100% correct.

I believed things in Christian dogma were true despite the lack of evidence, or in the face of contradicting evidence.

Someone who believes Christ is the son of god, a part of god, and someone a person should strive to be like.

What, friend?. I've looked at alot of things that are not coming to me at the moment that have led me to this conclusion. A lot of shady dealings such as alot of the presidents (allegedly) being related distantly. Or Kerry and Bush being from the skull and bones and both refusing to talk about it. Or the Bush family connection with the leaders of Saudi Arabia. Or even further back, with Nazis. I've seen the dollar bill havinga pyramid, than a bunch of music videos having this same pyramid in similar and different ways. I've seen it in TV shows. I've seen the other objects from Egypt (obelisks) in Washington. I've (possibly) seen a babylon god made into the statue of liberty. I've seen the news organizations giving reports of leaders going to the Bohemian Grove to worship an owl (molech in the bible). I mean alot. See where these are, should lead you elsewhere. But if you're waiting for someone to sit you down, and prove it to you, you might not get that. Others may and probably have but that might not be for everyone. But to be clear, I've seen alot to understand that there are adversaries to God. And they're winning because they're getting others to ignore God as well. But in the end, them and all they mislead will be led to punishment and see that they werent winning at all. Just better hope that punishment isnt eternal...So now onto my question:

Should I trust someone who's father (Prescott) had connections to Hitler and son (George HW) has been convicted of war crimes? Why would I see these 2 people and expect that whatever they're planning, is in my best interest?


And in other words you went to church correct and were a christian in that manner? I'll wait for your answer before stating my opinion on what it was but alot of people say thats what being christian is about.

Okay, fine, YOU personally have been convinced these things are true. But to believe (or say you believe) because its "safer" is dishonest, which is why Pascal's wager is a joke.

I didnt bring "Pascal's wager" up nor did I say that I believe because its safer. Nonetheless that is the truth. Anyone that believes in God is safer (but not exempt) than the one that does not. See if I die and Im wrong (and you're right) then I just cease to exist. But if you're wrong and Im right?

I dont think that would be a pretty sight. Nonetheless, Im in doubt that God would punish anyone for an eternity. But Im not God so thats God's decision and anyone else that God gives the authority to judge

 

[NoMayo15]

You do know what "lobbying" is right? You do know that these men and women answer to men (and possibly women) that we dont see? Why dont you research what you claim "conspiracy theorists" spout on about? The simple fact that a few companies own most of the media should mean something to you.

You're talking out of your ass. Of course I'm familiar with lobbying. That doesn't mean there's some secret figures lurking in the background controlling politicians. Its made quite open, actually.

To answer your question (even though you didnt answer mine) for one the prophecies are proof of something. But not only that its like I've told you before. When you read and understand the gods of other nations, you'd see that they had NO basis for being the Creator of All. Egypt, Babylon, Greeks, Romans etc.. all worshiped things like the sun, moon, stars, or things of wood and stone, or images etc.. but ISRAEL worshiped a Being that created all things in existence. And how do you now know that this God has some power? Well It told of the scattering and regathering of Israel. From there, you should try building faith off that to see if God will reveal Itself to you. Now since you ignored my question.

Is there anything else from buddhism that amounts to the 4 or 5 fulfilled prophecies that were mentioned in this thread?

I love how you accuse me of not answering questions when you frequently do the same. Anyway, even if we accept that the writers of those passages knew future events, how do you get to the ONLY way they could have known is if this specific god revealed it to them? To your second point, you do realize there are/were ancient religions that held a belief in an omnipotent, creator god? I mean, you point to these few polytheistic civs, but Judaism isn't unique in its view of god. But even if it were true, what it seems like you're saying is "since these religions are wrong, mine must be right.", no? Do you not see the flaw in that logic?

One, I didn't see you discussing multiple fulfilled prophecies, only the one about Israel. Also, I don't speak for Buddhism, nor am I here to justify it's claims. I don't think EITHER "prophecies" are very convincing in proving the particular religion or the existence of a god.

Bring a "scientist/engineer" that explains how burning jet fuel can cause a 100+ story building to fall straight on itself. Breh you like science right? Why arent you exhibiting that here? Thats without mentioning the other building which fell for some random reason.

I'm not debating 9/11 conspiracies with you any further. All this stuff has been debunked and only idiots still cling to this nonsense. A fukking plane hit the buildings, and they didn't fall perfectly down. The other building was impacted by the initial attack and was also on fire for hours until it eventually fell. THERE WAS A GIANT HOLE IN BUILDING 7! IT DIDNT FALL RANDOMLY. You know how hard it would be to have a controlled demolition and have no one who worked there notice or anyone in on it come out to reveal the conspiracy? Stop reading only from conspiracy websites and YT videos, you idiot.

Read the word and pray on it. You'll come to the same answer if you're steadfast as well as humble. If you're expecting God to prove something to you (though God is ABSOLUTELY able to) when you're not humbly seeking, then you're mistaken.

How I know has to deal with my own experiences. Its hard to explain. But I do know that I have done some things in God's name that you probably wouldnt believe. Nonetheless I've seen enough in my own life and have experienced enough in my own life to know that a higher power has a purpose for me. This "higher power" I can only estimate is God.

What have you done in God's name?

Breh I dont know what you're arguing about. The bailouts benefitted the banks WAY more than anyone else. FACT. The FACT that they loan out money with interest proves that. So they got a free 700 billion or million (whichever it was) and then got to loan all (or some) of that money on interest. THAT benefits them moreso than anyone else.

Now insurance companies get a boost because everyone has to have health insurance. It seems never ending but it will my friend. Whether you or I fight it or go along with it.

Because you're implying that those who received the bailouts are the only ones that benefited from that particular government intervention. That government only works to help their wealthy friends, and ultimately want to do something detrimental to us average folk....Not only is that untrue, you still haven't explained what the danger is.

Meh...making sure everyone has health insurance might have negative consequences for companies too. They might have to cover someone whom they might not otherwise want to because of whatever precondition that individual has. Again, my point is not everything is so black and white as you make it ... esp. when weren't talking about economics.

Everyone has free will to make decisions. But there are times where God can intercede on that free will for whatever reason. Not contradictory.

Either you're free or you're not. If god can, has and will interfere with one's free will, then no, we don't have free will.

No it doesnt matter friend. While I fall, I do not lead others into falling. I dont go out and actively get people to fall. On the otherhand the few companies that own most of the media ACTIVELY promote it. Now why would they ACTIVELY PROMOTE what the bible is against, if in all actuality they were for what the bible represents? Are they trying to "trick" us into not following it by doing that? Or do they not actually follow the judgements of the God of Abraham? Really, breh, if our brethren who are our leaders believed in God Almighty, and follow Its judgements, we would see that in the media. Instead we see the opposite. And the adversary of God is.... SATAN

What does media promote that you view is adversarial to god?

Btw Im not a christian so if by my logic you say Im not a christian, you are 100% correct.

Alright, glad we're in agreement on this.

What, friend?. I've looked at alot of things that are not coming to me at the moment that have led me to this conclusion. A lot of shady dealings such as alot of the presidents (allegedly) being related distantly. Or Kerry and Bush being from the skull and bones and both refusing to talk about it. Or the Bush family connection with the leaders of Saudi Arabia. Or even further back, with Nazis. I've seen the dollar bill havinga pyramid, than a bunch of music videos having this same pyramid in similar and different ways. I've seen it in TV shows. I've seen the other objects from Egypt (obelisks) in Washington. I've (possibly) seen a babylon god made into the statue of liberty. I've seen the news organizations giving reports of leaders going to the Bohemian Grove to worship an owl (molech in the bible). I mean alot. See where these are, should lead you elsewhere. But if you're waiting for someone to sit you down, and prove it to you, you might not get that. Others may and probably have but that might not be for everyone. But to be clear, I've seen alot to understand that there are adversaries to God. And they're winning because they're getting others to ignore God as well. But in the end, them and all they mislead will be led to punishment and see that they werent winning at all. Just better hope that punishment isnt eternal...So now onto my question:

SMH. The problem is you aren't enough of a skeptic. You don't question anything you read, or see on the internet that is in accord with your preconceived beliefs, especially concerning the government. Good luck having anyone take you seriously on a public forum, friend.

Should I trust someone who's father (Prescott) had connections to Hitler and son (George HW) has been convicted of war crimes? Why would I see these 2 people and expect that whatever they're planning, is in my best interest?

Odd way to frame a question. I don't know your father or immediate family, but should I judge you based solely on their actions?

And in other words you went to church correct and were a christian in that manner? I'll wait for your answer before stating my opinion on what it was but alot of people say thats what being christian is about.

I didn't say I was a christian because I went to church. But yes, I was. Go ahead and state your bullshyt opinion about what you think you know about my life.

I didnt bring "Pascal's wager" up nor did I say that I believe because its safer. Nonetheless that is the truth. Anyone that believes in God is safer (but not exempt) than the one that does not. See if I die and Im wrong (and you're right) then I just cease to exist. But if you're wrong and Im right?

But ya did... this is exactly what you said earlier when I asked you why you thought a believer was in a better position. Just because you don't KNOW AND UNDERSTAND the argument, doesn't mean you didn't invoke it. We could both be wrong, and it might still be an ugly sight ... for the both of us. Or, we could both be wrong, but still nothing terribly bad happens. Or you could be right about God being the only god, but wrong about any punishments. So again, it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

Still, it's irrelevant because someone can't make themselves truly believe in order to hedge their bets.

 

[noon]

^^^^ I think your first six words covered everything.

 

[Everythingg]

You're talking out of your ass. Of course I'm familiar with lobbying. That doesn't mean there's some secret figures lurking in the background controlling politicians. Its made quite open, actually.

Lobbying shouldnt be allowed in a "democratic" society. Especially considered that the most of the media is owned by the same few companies and the ones with the highest campaign contributions are the ones covered in the media. The same media where the majority of America gets their news from.

I love how you accuse me of not answering questions when you frequently do the same. 1. Anyway, even if we accept that the writers of those passages knew future events, how do you get to the ONLY way they could have known is if this specific god revealed it to them? 2.To your second point, you do realize there are/were ancient religions that held a belief in an omnipotent, creator god? I mean, you point to these few polytheistic civs, but Judaism isn't unique in its view of god. But even if it were true, what it seems like you're saying is "since these religions are wrong, mine must be right.", no? Do you not see the flaw in that logic?

One, I didn't see you discussing multiple fulfilled prophecies, only the one about Israel. Also, I don't speak for Buddhism, nor am I here to justify it's claims. I don't think EITHER "prophecies" are very convincing in proving the particular religion or the existence of a god.



I'm not debating 9/11 conspiracies with you any further. All this stuff has been debunked and only idiots still cling to this nonsense. A fukking plane hit the buildings, and they didn't fall perfectly down. The other building was impacted by the initial attack and was also on fire for hours until it eventually fell. THERE WAS A GIANT HOLE IN BUILDING 7! IT DIDNT FALL RANDOMLY. You know how hard it would be to have a controlled demolition and have no one who worked there notice or anyone in on it come out to reveal the conspiracy? Stop reading only from conspiracy websites and YT videos, you idiot.

1. What? The men are the ones that claimed they got it from the specific Being they got it from. If you have another hypothesis how they could have known those events then bring it.

2. Which ancient religion worshiped their Omnipotent creator god and that alone?

And no. Im CONNECTING these different things together. If I was simply letting them stand on their own you would have a point about what you called "a flaw in logic". Im not though. Im connecting the different instances that are special about the Hebrews.

3. So that last paragraph means you couldnt find an engineer that says burning jet fuel can cause a building to fall straight down demolition style? For this to happen, the jet fuel would have had to seep down to the BOTTOM of the building and then melted the steel (at a temperature it cant reach) in an even way for the building to have fell as it did. Not going to happen. All in all, you was the one that was championing science in another thread I discussed with you. Now you're throwing it out for the sake of your gov't? Tisk tisk tisk lol.There are plenty of people questioning the story my friend. But if you only get your news from the media which is owned by a few select companies... .Well then you have ignorance to the truth in a variety of ways my brethren.

Spoiler

But as I said, if you're waiting for someone to come and sit you down to prove something to you, you might be waiting till your death. Worse if you're waiting for the mainstream media to cover stuff like this. Physics doesnt support what you're saying. But you're still saying it anyways lol

Because you're implying that those who received the bailouts are the only ones that benefited from that particular government intervention. That government only works to help their wealthy friends, and ultimately want to do something detrimental to us average folk....Not only is that untrue, you still haven't explained what the danger is.

Meh...making sure everyone has health insurance might have negative consequences for companies too. They might have to cover someone whom they might not otherwise want to because of whatever precondition that individual has. Again, my point is not everything is so black and white as you make it ... esp. when weren't talking about economics.

The BANK bailouts helped the BANKS more so than people. FACT!

Obamacare helps HEALTH INSURANCE companies MORESO than the people. FACT!

Thats common sense mi amigo. Did I ever say that the gov't doesnt help its people? No. Did I ever say that the"average folk" are constantly the downtrodden with no instances of help? NO!

Either you're free or you're not. If god can, has and will interfere with one's free will, then no, we don't have free will.



What does media promote that you view is adversarial to god?

Sorry my friend. But it doesnt work like that. You're not going to get to say "we didnt have free will!" because you do. God having the ability to intercede on one decision (that may not even include your free will) doesnt change that. Just as a parent can let their kids make their own mistake or step in to stop it because it gets too serious. If the parent steps in, it doesnt mean the child doesnt have free will on all the other occasions does it?

Take rap music and the contents of that for one. Why would people that believe in the same God I do, promote that to the youth? And remember that the media is mostly owned by the same few companies. So almost anything we get thru the media, is on the behalf of these few companies. So explain to me, why the commandments of the God they worship and adhere to are not being promoted but the opposite when it comes to lets just say rap music? Thats without going into movies or TV shows

SMH. The problem is you aren't enough of a skeptic. You don't question anything you read, or see on the internet that is in accord with your preconceived beliefs, especially concerning the government. Good luck having anyone take you seriously on a public forum, friend.

Ironic coming from your hands. Someone that has taken a mainstream position on every discussion we have had is telling me not to believe everything I read when I went to unbiased sources. But anyways do you think I woke up one day and knew what I knew? If you do you're mistaken. Couple of homies was telling me stuff about this about 5 years ago. I was laughing at them and mocking them. They kept telling me and I was just laughing at them or making fun of the "dumb conspiracies"they believed in. In a homie type of way of course not like you're doing lol. But a couple months later, Im in my dorm room bored, and decide to look up different things they said. The rest is history. Were they right about everything they told me? Nope. They had a pretty basic understanding of what was going on at the time. And it was really focused on the music industry. Nonetheless it was the match that started the fire. When I actually SOUGHT for what they told me, I FOUND the truth.

All of what I said in that quote is researchable. But if you cover your eyes and ears, and then tell someone to come prove it to you, than thats on you and you alone if no one follows your "command".

Odd way to frame a question. I don't know your father or immediate family, but should I judge you based solely on their actions?

If my family were authority figures over you, yes you should. Till I proved differently with my OWN actions. But if Im in the middle of a grandfather and grandson, and said grandfather and grandson have done questionable things in governance over the people, I think it would be 100% legit to question my intentions.

Now I ask again, should I trust someone whose father (Prescott) had ties to Nazi Germany? And whose son has been CHARGED with war crimes? Do you actually think this would somehow skip a generation? The funny thing is, you brush this to the side as if it doesnt matter.

I didn't say I was a christian because I went to church. But yes, I was. Go ahead and state your bullshyt opinion about what you think you know about my life.

Nothing in your quote about a personal relationship with God my friend. Thats what tipped me off. Once I saw that dogmatic answer I knew what I was dealing with.

But ya did... this is exactly what you said earlier when I asked you why you thought a believer was in a better position. Just because you don't KNOW AND UNDERSTAND the argument, doesn't mean you didn't invoke it. We could both be wrong, and it might still be an ugly sight ... for the both of us. Or, we could both be wrong, but still nothing terribly bad happens. Or you could be right about God being the only god, but wrong about any punishments. So again, it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

What I said was if Im wrong and you're right, than thats that. But if Im right and you're wrong, then


Then you brought up "Pascal's wager" as if I was saying there are no other possibilities than these 2. We are only discussing our p.o.v's. And if my POV is right, then you and other atheists are in for some trouble. If YOUR POV is correct, then I just cease to exist so theres no trouble for me there. That is the 2 possibilies being discussed between us and is what I originally pointed to.

 

[NoMayo15]

Lobbying shouldnt be allowed in a "democratic" society. Especially considered that the most of the media is owned by the same few companies and the ones with the highest campaign contributions are the ones covered in the media. The same media where the majority of America gets their news from.

Fair enough. I don't really disagree with this sentiment.

1. What? The men are the ones that claimed they got it from the specific Being they got it from. If you have another hypothesis how they could have known those events then bring it.

Yeah, but how do you know they weren't mistaken or purposely being deceitful, or that their words weren't altered later by powerful figures in a dark room? Just because someone SAYS something doesn't mean it's true. You're basically relying on hearsay to shape your entire worldview.

2. Which ancient religion worshiped their Omnipotent creator god and that alone? And no. Im CONNECTING these different things together. If I was simply letting them stand on their own you would have a point about what you called "a flaw in logic". Im not though. Im connecting the different instances that are special about the Hebrews.

Okay so one creator deity and prophecies are enough to convince you the religion is true?

3. So that last paragraph means you couldnt find an engineer that says burning jet fuel can cause a building to fall straight down demolition style? For this to happen, the jet fuel would have had to seep down to the BOTTOM of the building and then melted the steel (at a temperature it cant reach) in an even way for the building to have fell as it did. Not going to happen. All in all, you was the one that was championing science in another thread I discussed with you. Now you're throwing it out for the sake of your gov't? Tisk tisk tisk lol. There are plenty of people questioning the story my friend. But if you only get your news from the media which is owned by a few select companies... .Well then you have ignorance to the truth in a variety of ways my brethren.

Spoiler

But as I said, if you're waiting for someone to come and sit you down to prove something to you, you might be waiting till your death. Worse if you're waiting for the mainstream media to cover stuff like this.

No, you're the one actually throwing out science. The consensus from the scientific community is that the buildings could have fell in the manner in which they did, without freaking jet fuel melting metal. Only conspiracy theorists argue that the only way it could have happened is if the fuel melted hot enough. Not only is that an argument from ignorance, tts a statement that's simply not supported by the science, which is why your original question on this is absurd.

The BANK bailouts helped the BANKS more so than people. FACT!

Obamacare helps HEALTH INSURANCE companies MORESO than the people. FACT!

Asserting shyt over and over doesn't make it true. Demonstrate these things are fact.

Ultimately I think Obamacare hurts more than it helps...and that's everyone included.

Thats common sense mi amigo. Did I ever say that the gov't doesnt help its people? No. Did I ever say that the"average folk" are constantly the downtrodden with no instances of help? NO!

It was implied.

Sorry my friend. But it doesnt work like that. You're not going to get to say "we didnt have free will!" because you do. God having the ability to intercede on one decision (that may not even include your free will) doesnt change that.

I'm going by YOUR words. I don't believe in a god, so obviously I don't think there's one capable of altering minds, and forcing people act as it wants them to.

You clearly don't understand the concept of free will.

Take rap music and the contents of that for one. Why would people that believe in the same God I do, promote that to the youth?

So rap music is sinful? What about positive rap artists?

The irony. Do you think I woke up one day and knew what I knew? If you do you're mistaken. Couple of homies was telling me stuff about this about 5 years ago. I was laughing at them and mocking them. They kept telling me and I was just laughing at them or making fun of the "dumb conspiracies" they were telling me. In a homie type of way of course not like you're doing lol. But a couple months later, Im in my dorm room bored, and decide to look up different things they said. The rest is history. Were they right about everything they told me? Nope. They had a pretty basic understanding of what was going on at the time. And it was really focused on the music industry. Nonetheless it was the match that started the fire. When I actually SOUGHT for what they told me, I FOUND the truth.

The thing is you don't know shyt. Just a bunch of half-brained conspiracies that aren't even fleshed out.

If my family were authority figures over you, yes you should. Till I proved differently with my OWN actions. But if Im in the middle of a grandfather and grandson, and said grandfather and grandson have done questionable things in governance over the people, I think it would be 100% legit to question my intentions.

Now I ask again, should I trust someone whose father (Prescott) had ties to Nazi Germany? And whose son has been CHARGED with war crimes? Do you actually think this would somehow skip a generation? The funny thing is, you brush this to the side as if it doesnt matter.

Yeah well I judge each individual based on their own actions. I'm not going to assume most of your family are into conspiracies just because you are.

Yeah, explain to me why it does matter. It depends on what you mean by "has ties to". Charged with war crimes? By whom? For all I know, this person could have served in a 20th century war, and fell in love with a German woman while abroad. It tells me nothing about any nefarious intent or wrong doing. It would be like if, for example, you had a teenage son that tried pot once, and I asked should I trust someone who's son does ILLEGAL DRUGS?! Your claims might technically be true, but dishonest and out of context. I mean, at the very least it's ad hominem ... You're trying to attack or discredit one's intentions because his FAMILY MEMBERS might have done something wrong. That's just ridiculous to me.

Nothing in your quote about a personal relationship with God my friend. Thats what tipped me off. Once I saw that dogmatic answer I knew what I was dealing with.

Very well. And I'll say, looking back, I did think I had a relationship with God ... I was mistaken.

What I said was if Im wrong and you're right, than thats that. But if Im right and you're wrong, then


Then you brought up "Pascal's wager" as if I was saying there are no other possibilities than these 2. There are. But only us two are discussing our p.o.v's. And if my POV is right, then you and other atheists are in for some trouble. If YOUR POV is correct, then I just cease to exist so theres no trouble for me there. That is the 2 possibilies being discussed between us and is what I originally pointed to.

The exact same reason why you don't concern yourself with the outcome of OTHER religions is the same reason why I dismiss the outcome of your religion.

Not to mention what a believer might have missed out on had they been an atheist while living.

 

[Everythingg]

Fair enough. I don't really disagree with this sentiment.

So you agree with the media being owned by the same companies? And how that corroborates with lobbying being bad for the democratic process?

Yeah, but how do you know they weren't mistaken or purposely being deceitful, or that their words weren't altered later by powerful figures in a dark room? Just because someone SAYS something doesn't mean it's true. You're basically relying on hearsay to shape your entire worldview.



Okay so one creator deity and prophecies are enough to convince you the religion is true?



No, you're the one actually throwing out science. The consensus from the scientific community is that the buildings could have fell in the manner in which they did, without freaking jet fuel melting metal. Only conspiracy theorists argue that the only way it could have happened is if the fuel melted hot enough. Not only is that an argument from ignorance, tts a statement that's simply not supported by the science, which is why your original question on this is absurd.

We have the dead sea scrolls that show they werent altered unless you're under the impression that someone altered those and then buried them.

No. Not me. There has been more proven once I put into action what the bible suggests to put into action. Thats just a STARTING POINT for those that say "theres no proof". Now onto my question that you brushed under the rug. Is there an ancient religion that worshiped an Omnipotent Creator and this Creator alone? Which one would that be?

Consensus? No friend now I know you're making this up as you go. Theres no "consensus" other than the mainstream media which doesnt explore these type of questions I have presented to you. Look at this: "Only conspiracy theorist argue that the only way it could have happened is if the fuel melted hot enough". Man come on

For someone that believes in science, you're not exhibiting it here. Theres no "if the fuel melted hot enough" in this discussion. The problem is that jet fuel cannot reach the temperature to melt thru steel. And not only that, but it would have to melt the steel in a uniform manner to make it fall like this:

Spoiler

So either a demolition happened, or the fuel somehow melted steel in a uniform manner that caused it to fall straight on itself. The way it fell is how demolitions are constructed to fall. ON ITSELF.

Asserting shyt over and over doesn't make it true. Demonstrate these things are fact.

Ultimately I think Obamacare hurts more than it helps...and that's everyone included.



It was implied.

Oh but you can assert over and over that its a "consensus" that the scientific community agrees with you without demonstrating how huh?

Banks- Got 700 milli or billi and then got the opportunity to loan all of it to people at interest. That was AFTER they gave themselves millions/billions of dollars in bonuses. So 700 mill or bill for free (for their own fukk ups), then they give themselves personal bonuses, then the rest (we'll say for the sake of this argument though Im sure it wasnt the case) was LOANED AT INTEREST to the people. Yea the banks benefitted the most off this.

Obamacare- Insurance companies get new custos to their businesses. Everyone has to have insurance of some type or face consequences. Doesnt sound like thats trying to help us more than help the insurance companies with extra loot and if we're not complicit in giving them extra loot, then we have to give it to the gov't because of "penalties".

Allow me to imply what I want. That sounds better than you projecting things to me.

I'm going by YOUR words. I don't believe in a god, so obviously I don't think there's one capable of altering minds, and forcing people act as it wants them to.

You clearly don't understand the concept of free will.

I do understand free will. And I dont think that God being ABLE to stop someone from doing something means that free will doesnt exist altogether. Just as I dont think a parent stopping their child from making a mistake means that the child's free will doesnt exist anymore. In that moment? Yes. For all? Nope. But heres what you're arguing.

So rap music is sinful? What about positive rap artists?

The rap music that is actively promoted in the media? Yes. But we're not talking about "sinfulness". But whether the media promotes values in accordance with the bible. And it doesnt as you already SHOULD know if you was a "christian" in the past.

Yeah well I judge each individual based on their own actions. I'm not going to assume most of your family are into conspiracies just because you are.

Yeah, explain to me why it does matter. It depends on what you mean by "has ties to". Charged with war crimes? By whom? For all I know, this person could have served in a 20th century war, and fell in love with a German woman while abroad. It tells me nothing about any nefarious intent or wrong doing. It would be like if, for example, you had a teenage son that tried pot once, and I asked should I trust someone who's son does ILLEGAL DRUGS?! Your claims might technically be true, but dishonest and out of context. I mean, at the very least it's ad hominem ... You're trying to attack or discredit one's intentions because his FAMILY MEMBERS might have done something wrong. That's just ridiculous to me.

Ad hominem?

We're talking about people that GOVERN other people. So obviously their actions that are in ACCORDANCE with their job (I reiterate, to GOVERN other people) would be useful. Now again, should I trust someone that has ties to Hitler? A simple google search would have led you to your answer that the "ties" points to FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING Nazis. Why would I trust someone like that? Or GWB Jr. being convicted of war crimes? Thats without even mentioning the questionable acts of GWB Sr.

Spoiler

Presscott/Hitler
How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power | World news | The Guardian

War crimes
Kuala Lumpur tribunal: Bush and Blair guilty - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fact that you sweep this under the rug is hilarious yet sad at the same time. This shows what one is up against when calling out evil. People that will defend it without even researching. This was a quick google search friend that you could have done. My point is, that anyone that LOOKS at American policy, would have PLENTY to distrust of them. But if you dont look (as you havent) then thats on you. What Im showing you is where theres smoke, theres fire. Thats what my homies exemplified without them even knowing it. They were saying outlandish stuff that I found out wasnt true (and didnt believe at that time anyways). But they led me (indirectly) to seeing things that I would not have learned watching TV.

All that Im showing you now, should be the same. But if you're not going to research, then you're not going to learn. Well,until its too late.

Very well. And I'll say, looking back, I did think I had a relationship with God ... I was mistaken.



The exact same reason why you don't concern yourself with the outcome of OTHER religions is the same reason why I dismiss the outcome of your religion.

Not to mention what a believer might have missed out on had they been an atheist while living.

Yea and thats why I said I'd "wait" till you presented your answer about what Christianity was to you. Because I knew it wouldnt include that. Now after I brought it up? That is what I expected you to say.

The EXACT same reason ehh? So you dont care about other religions because they're not the Creator of Existence? And what would a believer miss out on other than sins?

 

[NoMayo15]

So you agree with the media being owned by the same companies? And how that corroborates with lobbying being bad for the democratic process?

No, I don't dispute that, but I don't see how it correlates to a one world government or even what the danger of such a system would lead to. Been asking you to answer this since the beginning.

We have the dead sea scrolls that show they werent altered unless you're under the impression that someone altered those and then buried them.

Okay? But I gave you a multitude of things that could have happened. You still haven't answered why you take the bible as an authority on anything, especially when you concede that other religions might have made similar "predictions".

No. Not me. There has been more proven once I put into action what the bible suggests to put into action. Thats just a STARTING POINT for those that say "theres no proof". Now onto my question that you brushed under the rug. Is there an ancient religion that worshiped an Omnipotent Creator and this Creator alone? Which one would that be?

Okay so please go into more detail as to what REALLY convinced you. Explain what happened, and why you were convinced.

Yes, it's been pointed out before that other religions have a belief in a transcendent god. Hinduism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, and probably some others I don't know about. Again, there's nothing particularly unique about the "god of Israel".

Consensus? No friend now I know you're making this up as you go. Theres no "consensus" other than the mainstream media which doesnt explore these type of questions I have presented to you. Look at this: "Only conspiracy theorist argue that the only way it could have happened is if the fuel melted hot enough". Man come on

For someone that believes in science, you're not exhibiting it here. Theres no "if the fuel melted hot enough" in this discussion. The problem is that jet fuel cannot reach the temperature to melt thru steel. And not only that, but it would have to melt the steel in a uniform manner to make it fall like this:

Spoiler

So either a demolition happened, or the fuel somehow melted steel in a uniform manner that caused it to fall straight on itself. The way it fell is how demolitions are constructed to fall. ON ITSELF.

You are an idiot on so many levels. One, the MAINSTREAM media reports what the MAINSTREAM scientists report to them. Media doesn't report unsupported conjecture unless it's an opinion show or article. When trying to report FACTS, they appeal to the majority thought of scientists, engineers, etc., and THOSE people study the event to find the BEST solution as to what happened. If there is some other possibility, then it needs to be proven and reviewed by others in the field. That's how GOOD/TRUE ideas make it into the MAINSTREAM and BAD/FALSE ideas are ignored and discarded. Not only are people like you annoying to deal with, you impede the progress of the rest of mankind.

JET FUEL DOESN'T HAVE TO MELT STEEL GIRDERS. The structural integrity of the buildings was compromised as soon as the planes hit them. All it took after that was time and gravity. Those floors that were hit were barely intact, and could not sustain the weight of the higher floors. So if, lets say... the 90th thru the 94th floors loses it's north wall ... the 95th floor has little support and oh yeah, is on fire. It and the remaining part of the top of the building falls on the floors below, and the force and weight is such that it takes out the rest of the building. It didn't fall perfectly down, nor did it fall at free-fall speeds. You can see the top leaning as it comes down and there's actually debris that falls faster than the building appears to fall.

As for the video (which is really the sweetest part of this whole thing), the shots you see ONLY show WTC7 from the north side... the side that was away from the other buildings that collapsed earlier that morning. What you, and other conspiracy theorists fail to look at is the SOUTH side of the building... the side directly facing the other WTC buildings. THAT side was hit by the debris of the buildings, had huge holes in it and was also on fire. So sure, from one angle you see a completely clean building that seemingly falls for no reason... but on a different angle:

Spoiler

Tallest building closest to the smoke on the left. Camera focuses in on it around the 0:45 sec mark until the end

This is why anything you say is a joke. Hopefully, you see how much of a jackass you make yourself look to the rest of us.

Oh but you can assert over and over that its a "consensus" that the scientific community agrees with you without demonstrating how huh?

Yes, because those facts are on side.

Banks- Got 700 milli or billi and then got the opportunity to loan all of it to people at interest. That was AFTER they gave themselves millions/billions of dollars in bonuses. So 700 mill or bill for free (for their own fukk ups), then they give themselves personal bonuses, then the rest (we'll say for the sake of this argument though Im sure it wasnt the case) was LOANED AT INTEREST to the people. Yea the banks benefitted the most off this.

Ehhhh, I view it as more of a joint fukk-up for all. Government pressuring banks to give home loans to people who couldn't afford them, people taking said loan without a contingency, and bank president's taking that second trip to Aruba. We're still talking about people fukking people ad infinitum. I still say it's hard to quantify who's helped more by this. Look at it this way, say the gov't didn't give the banks that $700B .... who's in worse shape: The President of Bank of America who might not get that that extra million dollar bonus this year, or the single parent who might be homeless if she defaults on her mortgage?

Obamacare- Insurance companies get new custos to their businesses. Everyone has to have insurance of some type or face consequences. Doesnt sound like thats trying to help us more than help the insurance companies with extra loot and if we're not complicit in giving them extra loot, then we have to give it to the gov't because of "penalties".

A couple things here. Going back to my other point, more customers mean more potential costs. Costs which the company might have viewed as TOO COSTLY if said customers had health issues that were particularly expensive to treat. Lets be reality, there's a reason why some insurance companies would drop coverage for those they discovered had certain pre-existing conditions.

The other thing, the larger point is ... I'm a fan of Friedman, who coined the phrase 'there's no such thing as a free lunch'. I think most people don't consider the unintended consequences of programs like these -- the dead weight.

I do understand free will. And I dont think that God being ABLE to stop someone from doing something means that free will doesnt exist altogether. Just as I dont think a parent stopping their child from making a mistake means that the child's free will doesnt exist anymore. In that moment? Yes. For all? Nope. But heres what you're arguing.

If the parent could control the child at any time, then the child is no more than a puppet imo. That's not the reality we live in, so your analogy doesn't perfectly fit, but I see what you're saying.