I Thought You Westbrook D*cc Eaters Told Me Oladipo Was Worthless?

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Name all the shooting guards in the NBA right now who are better than Oladipo at both offense and defense.

I'll start. Klay. Then you have....?

There are some better offensive players than him, but they don't play D. There are some better defenders, but they aren't scorers. Hardly anyone is above-average on both ends..
Bradley (the most obvious one of all - how you overlooked him, I don't know)
Beal (see, what I did there?)
Butler (yes, he plays SG)
KCP (he doesn't have the same offensive skillset, but he's a FAR better defender)

Oladipo isn't even a top-5 two-way SG, and I mean I don't even like to refer to him as one, as he's far too inconsistent on both ends.
That only makes sense if what you mean by "did his best" is "did the best that Russ can do and that's not particularly good". Look at the difference from that Pacers gametape and the kind of bullshyt possessions he kept getting in OKC..
I not only question your motive behind this (your hatred for Westbrook's play is blinding you from posting sense), but if you actually watched enough Thunder games last season. You're telling me to look at the difference of FOUR games from this season, where he monopolizes possessions, and compare it to 67 games where he was in a completely different role? That shyt is about as dishonest as one can get. He had 4-5 game stretches like this last season, since I know you only like to see the game through the box score:

00rcjyj.png

ZQTzEGK.png

UUN2Sl7.png


He actually was performing well at the start of the season, in November he averaged 17 ppg on 50 FG%, and 44 3-pt%, and starting to find his groove within the offense. He then injured his wrist in early December and was out for pretty much the entire month. He came back and averaged 16 ppg in both Jan and Feb, and then he got injured again (back), returned and averaged 17 ppg in the remainder of March. Even when he came back initially from his first injury, his wrist was still bothering him all the way up until he injured his back (Thunder journal: Back injury gave Oladipo's wrist a rest).

Funnily enough, he had his most efficient season of his career, yet somehow Westbrook was a detriment to his game. Go figure.

Westbrook's "best" to get him involved in the offense had results of:
wLkPL6r.png

099WPxn.png

They were one of, if not the BEST two-man combo out of any Thunder lineup in terms of points differential, FG%, FGM, 3P%, AST (regular season + postseason). Oladipo was 12th in catch-and-shoot attempts out of all guards (4.9 per game, more than he ever had in Orlando - Curry for example only had 0.2 more C&S attempts), more opportunities than the likes of: Bradley=, KCP, Snell, Crabbe, Danny Green, Fournier, Harris, McCollum, Hood and Middleton.

2016/17 catch-and-shoot (with Westbrook) - 4.9 attempts at 54 eFG%
2015/16 catch-and-shoot (in Orlando) - 3.4 attempts at 51 eFG%
2014/15 catch-and-shoot (in Orlando) - 2.6 attempts at 47 eFG%
2013/14 catch-and-shoot (in Orlando) - 2.1 attempts at 50 eFG%

Like I said above, the fact you don't think Westbrook didn't do his best to get Oladipo involved throughout the game tells me one of a few things (or a combination of all): you either didn't watch enough Thunder games, you're overrating Oladipo's ability - he's typically been inefficient/inconsistent all throughout his career, or your agenda against Westbrook is crossing over into irrational territory.
He was mentally a wreck by the time the playoffs came. It's what happens when you get put in terrible positions by your leader all season long, can't stand how he plays, and yet you're the one consistently blamed for it while being expected to excel at things that aren't particularly strengths for you.

(and yes, I'm aware enough of your broken-record posting style to know exactly where you'll take that).
Mentally a wreck from what exactly? What terrible positions did Westbrook put Oladipo under? The terrible position where he had the most efficient season of his career, in almost every shooting category? How dare Westbrook! You should know all about players having to change their games to fit next to stars - look what both Wade and Bosh (especially) had to do, to fit around LeBron. Now obviously I'm not directly comparing Westbrook's and LeBron's styles of play, but that's what happens when an offense is centered around a star who controls the majority of possessions - the rest of the players have to change their games.

On the footnote - don't throw rocks from the glass house you stay in.
That's just at one position though (SF). They had two-way players at the other three positions in Oladipo, Gibson, and Adams.

You can survive a strong one-way player at one position if you have strong two-way players at the other 3-4 positions.
What you're failing to take into account (it almost seems like you're doing this on purpose at this point) is that Westbrook was forced to score more because they didn't have enough perimeter shooting. Gibson, who only played 23 games can't score from the outside, and neither can Adams - both occupy the same spaces. Basically, Westbrook had to take the roles of two players, because of the lack of offensive production at the 3 spot. You're also overlooking the fact that Roberson crippled their offense, due to passing up wide-open shots, and not being a threat to score - which meant Westbrook and Oladipo had to deal with more defensive attention. As did any lineup which had Roberson in it.

Just imagine if LeBron's main perimeter help on offense were Roberson and Oladipo.
Westbrook still had "elite" impact, but he shouldn't have been MVP. Harden, Kawhi, Lebron all had a greater impact on the bottom line, Curry/Durant would have been ahead too if they hadn't forfeited consideration before the season started.
Nah, this is not true at all. Far from it. Westbrook deserved to be MVP simply for the impact he had, not for the reasons why he won it [averaging a triple double]. Don't confuse the two.
 
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Professor Emeritus

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Bradley (the most obvious one of all - how you overlooked him, I don't know)
Beal (see, what I did there?)
Butler (yes, he plays SG)
KCP (he doesn't have the same offensive skillset, but he's a FAR better defender)

Oladipo isn't even a top-5 two-way SG, and I mean I don't even like to refer to him as one, as he's far too inconsistent on both ends.

Bradley didn't even enter my mind because I still think of him as a point guard, though you right that he's a two now. Though his height at the two certainly limits the degree to which you can claim he's a better offensive option than Oladipo. And I definitely consider Butler a three (as the NBA does, Wiggins is their 2), that's another borderline one for you.

In order to barely squeeze Oladipo out of the top 5, you had to include Beal (who is certainly a worse defender than Oladipo) and KCP (who is certainly worse on offense than Oladipo). How many GMs in the league would take KCP over Oladipo? I'm guessing less than half.

The only actual SG who is clearly better on both ends is Klay. Beal is also better overall. After that you have two tweeners and the debatable KCP.

Even say you're right on all those, you're talking about Oladipo being around the 6th-best two-way SG in the league. Which is pretty good, right?

All the rest of your post just confirms that.

Compare that to the 30 posters I quoted saying he was useless, worthless, trash, etc.




Just imagine if LeBron's main perimeter help on offense were Roberson and Oladipo.

You acting like that's some difficult thought experiment or something. :francis:

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QuintessentialBM

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Whenever an average to mediocre NBA player gets traded to another team, they always have a stretch when they're playing well because they want to impress their new coach/GM. Over time, they regress back to their mediocre/terrible play, thus reason why they get traded in the first place.

In the case of OKC, just about every drafted player that has been ever traded away fits this mold. Presti is smart to trade away players who haven't recognized their potential in about 3-4 years(or before that first contract is over). Players like Oladipo and Kanter would still be on the team if they were as consistent as they are playing for their new team, which won't last. McDermott and Kanter, for all of their advantages, they were liabilities in defense against any team that had a big man with a miniscule amount of athletic ability. Both big men can score, but they had to have their opportunities put on a platter for them... and many times, they would miss or turn the ball over, especially KANTER. Oladipo is no James Harden and I'm fine with that, as is every other Thunder fan. We'll live without him.
 

Jesus Is Lord

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Bradley (the most obvious one of all - how you overlooked him, I don't know)
Beal (see, what I did there?)
Butler (yes, he plays SG)
KCP (he doesn't have the same offensive skillset, but he's a FAR better defender)

Oladipo isn't even a top-5 two-way SG, and I mean I don't even like to refer to him as one, as he's far too inconsistent on both ends.

I not only question your motive behind this (your hatred for Westbrook's play is blinding you from posting sense), but if you actually watched enough Thunder games last season. You're telling me to look at the difference of FOUR games from this season, where he monopolizes possessions, and compare it to 67 games where he was in a completely different role? That shyt is about as dishonest as one can get. He had 4-5 game stretches like this last season, since I know you only like to see the game through the box score:

00rcjyj.png

ZQTzEGK.png

UUN2Sl7.png


He actually was performing well at the start of the season, in November he averaged 17 ppg on 50 FG%, and 44 3-pt%, and starting to find his groove within the offense. He then injured his wrist in early December and was out for pretty much the entire month. He came back and averaged 16 ppg in both Jan and Feb, and then he got injured again (back), returned and averaged 17 ppg in the remainder of March. Even when he came back initially from his first injury, his wrist was still bothering him all the way up until he injured his back (Thunder journal: Back injury gave Oladipo's wrist a rest).

Funnily enough, he had his most efficient season of his career, yet somehow Westbrook was a detriment to his game. Go figure.

Westbrook's "best" to get him involved in the offense had results of:
wLkPL6r.png

099WPxn.png

They were one of, if not the BEST two-man combo out of any Thunder lineup in terms of points differential, FG%, FGM, 3P%, AST (regular season + postseason). Oladipo was 12th in catch-and-shoot attempts out of all guards (4.9 per game, more than he ever had in Orlando - Curry for example only had 0.2 more C&S attempts), more opportunities than the likes of: Bradley=, KCP, Snell, Crabbe, Danny Green, Fournier, Harris, McCollum, Hood and Middleton.

2016/17 catch-and-shoot (with Westbrook) - 4.9 attempts at 54 eFG%
2015/16 catch-and-shoot (in Orlando) - 3.4 attempts at 51 eFG%
2014/15 catch-and-shoot (in Orlando) - 2.6 attempts at 47 eFG%
2013/14 catch-and-shoot (in Orlando) - 2.1 attempts at 50 eFG%

Like I said above, the fact you don't think Westbrook didn't do his best to get Oladipo involved throughout the game tells me one of a few things (or a combination of all): you either didn't watch enough Thunder games, you're overrating Oladipo's ability - he's typically been inefficient/inconsistent all throughout his career, or your agenda against Westbrook is crossing over into irrational territory.

Mentally a wreck from what exactly? What terrible positions did Westbrook put Oladipo under? The terrible position where he had the most efficient season of his career, in almost every shooting category? How dare Westbrook! You should know all about players having to change their games to fit next to stars - look what both Wade and Bosh (especially) had to do, to fit around LeBron. Now obviously I'm not directly comparing Westbrook's and LeBron's styles of play, but that's what happens when an offense is centered around a star who controls the majority of possessions - the rest of the players have to change their games.

On the footnote - don't throw rocks from the glass house you stay in.

What you're failing to take into account (it almost seems like you're doing this on purpose at this point) is that Westbrook was forced to score more because they didn't have enough perimeter shooting. Gibson, who only played 23 games can't score from the outside, and neither can Adams - both occupy the same spaces. Basically, Westbrook had to take the roles of two players, because of the lack of offensive production at the 3 spot. You're also overlooking the fact that Roberson crippled their offense, due to passing up wide-open shots, and not being a threat to score - which meant Westbrook and Oladipo had to deal with more defensive attention. As did any lineup which had Roberson in it.

Just imagine if LeBron's main perimeter help on offense were Roberson and Oladipo.

Nah, this is not true at all. Far from it. Westbrook deserved to be MVP simply for the impact he had, not for the reasons why he won it [averaging a triple double]. Don't confuse the two.

I watched every OKC game as long as the Lakers weren't on at the same time and this 100% spot on. Rep.
 

DonKnock

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Whenever an average to mediocre NBA player gets traded to another team, they always have a stretch when they're playing well because they want to impress their new coach/GM. Over time, they regress back to their mediocre/terrible play, thus reason why they get traded in the first place.

In the case of OKC, just about every drafted player that has been ever traded away fits this mold. Presti is smart to trade away players who haven't recognized their potential in about 3-4 years(or before that first contract is over). Players like Oladipo and Kanter would still be on the team if they were as consistent as they are playing for their new team, which won't last. McDermott and Kanter, for all of their advantages, they were liabilities in defense against any team that had a big man with a miniscule amount of athletic ability. Both big men can score, but they had to have their opportunities put on a platter for them... and many times, they would miss or turn the ball over, especially KANTER. Oladipo is no James Harden and I'm fine with that, as is every other Thunder fan. We'll live without him.

Presti came up off Ibaka to get Oladipo because he looked like he had some potential in Orlando tho. And it's a no brainer to send him out to get Paul George who was being traded simply because he was a malcontent.

Oladipo fills a void for the Thunder, who have struggled to find a steady shooting guard since trading James Harden to Houston in 2012. Oladipo averaged 16 points, 4.8 rebounds and 3.9 assists last season for the Magic.

"I think the number one thing with Victor is makeup," Thunder general manager Sam Presti said. "This is a guy that we've looked at for a long time. He's tough-minded, he's competitive, he's selfless."

But when a guy has a 42% usage rate (Westbrook) it's not some big mystery why another guy who needs the ball in his hand to be effective would have his effectiveness marginalized.

And that is what happened here.
 

Kairi Irving

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:mjlol:

I would damn near pay a not so insignificant sum of money to have Victor fukking olapido be LeBron's 2nd option... Just to see your opinion of him do a complete 180

Funny, Dan Gilbert said he wanted to draft him over Bennett lol
 

#1 pick

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Dipo looked good this summer. He improved his explosiveness and he worked on his reaction time. These are areas he struggled last year in OKC considering his skill-set
 

Ineedmoney504

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This might be a controversial opinion but I have always believed that the concept of "franchise player" is flawed. Majority of second, third and even fourth option on nba teams can put up great numbers if given the green light to take unlimited shots. I bet many experts thought harden wasn't a "franchise player" before leaving okc.

usually when a player's shot attempts goes up so does his productivity. it's not rocket science. we watched carmelo anthony and Iverson jack up shots and shoot inefficiently as a number one option for years, That's not so difficult to replicate. The difference sometimes between a "role player" and a "franchise player" is shot attempts.
nah u wilding. Take Harrison Barnes for instance, he went from role player for the warriors to franchise player for the mavs, his shots went up and he still as terribly average as he always been. And u have no chance at winning anything with him as your best or 2nd best player
 

Ineedmoney504

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It's really based on the eye test , Granger was in the same position as Carmelo ... A scoring SF who did really nothing else but people were quick to say Melo is a superstar and a franchise player while the Pacers by 2010 were looking to trade him
melo was most def on a higher level than granger ever was man. Stop it. Plus granger got hurt when the pacers hit try prime and never came close to being a consistent scorer

Obviously some players are better and more talented than others but I believe many players are underrated in this league and can put up great numbers if given the chance.

What gets to me is when people make comments like "player A only averages 10 ppg i.e he's a role player, ability wise" without context, what they also fail to mention is, that same player A only attempts 6 - 8 shots per game, maybe even less
player A is only getting them 6-8 shots cause they can't shoot 15-18 and score consistently. U over valuing the talent.
 

Jalether

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melo was most def on a higher level than granger ever was man. Stop it. Plus granger got hurt when the pacers hit try prime and never came close to being a consistent scorer

player A is only getting them 6-8 shots cause they can't shoot 15-18 and score consistently. U over valuing the talent.

Basketball just like life isn't black and white. There are many factors that determine the role of each players in a team and it isn't always based on how good they are objectively. politics, youngbucks taking backseats to vets/established players/stars, dumb ass coaches not recognizing talent.
 
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Jalether

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nah u wilding. Take Harrison Barnes for instance, he went from role player for the warriors to franchise player for the mavs, his shots went up and he still as terribly average as he always been. And u have no chance at winning anything with him as your best or 2nd best player
And it became abundantly clear that harrison Barnes wasn't good enough to be a "franchise player" which still proves my point that you won't know what a player is capable of until you give them the responsibility. On one end of the spectrum you have your Harden, Oladipo and on the other end you have your harrison barnes's of this world but there's only one way to know for sure if a player is capable of putting up 25 plus ppg.

I remember when people (majority of the media, the internet and even KD) wrote off Kawhi as nothing more than a role/system player who's only great at defending and could never carry and offense or lead a team. It took Duncan and manu getting old and Tony parker getting old and injured for people to realise he's that nikka when given the responsibility to be the face of an organization.
 
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