Kaep Strapped; Super Bowl or Bust the OFFICIAL 49ers 2014 Season Thread

[jwonder]

I don't understand. Kaep was able to "read a defense" prior to this slide...but now he can't? Don't give me that read option shyt because he played in the pocket last year. "Can't read a defense" is lazy thinking.

Folk like to fall back on that when a "read option" QB struggles. You NEVER hear "can't read a defense" with the drop back passers who either struggle or suck ass. There's this misconception that drop back, pocket passers can read defenses. Why?

I don't know Kaep's reads, I'm not on the field so I'm not going to sit here and act like he doesn't know wtf he's doing. He's clearly struggling and seeing things that aren't there.

They still ran the read option BS through out last season too. He didn't look that great last year when they put him in the pocket. You look at when he did the read option full time to when what he is doing now and say he looks the same. Same with RG3. The defense adapted to it. Just like did the wildcat. This year it's worse because he really has to do a normal offense. They are looking right at him. Sherman even said he wasn't paying attention to the WR. Kaep stares down his lone receiver like it's his only option. Can't read where the D is coming from.


Pocket passers have been the staple of the league and not going anywhere. They have a better chance to succeed than a read option QB period. How do those spread or read option bullshyt QB's look right about now?

Plus people don't realize how good our defense was the last few years. They allowed all those three and outs from Alex Smith and Kaep had to hold the opposing offense to 3 or no points. They kept us in the game. This season due to all the injuries they are not able to do it. Can't blame them though. Offense looks like shyt.

 

[King Kreole]

To me it's quite simple. Kap was doing really well in the scheme we had him in when he first started. It was a comfortable system for him. He wasn't asked to make difficult reads and he was allowed to be mobile which really opened up the field for him. Then (and I dunno if this was due to the media calling Kap a gimmick qb or because they wanted to run this offense the whole time), Roman and Harbaugh changed the offensive scheme into one that demanded Kap operated strictly from the pocket in a more traditional qb role. Kap has had a difficult time adjusting to this. He's struggling to get the hang of this new system. As soon as Greg and Harbaugh noticed this, they should have slowed it down and adjusted the system accordingly, but for some godforsaken reason they tried to plow on ahead and hope Kap would click. He hasn't.

I think Kap will be able to make the transition to a more complex scheme, but he needs to be coached properly through the transition. We tried to give him a baptism by fire and it didn't work. Hopefully the next coach is more willing to work with his advantages while teaching him the skills he needs to be an elite qb.

 

[King Kreole]

Like, I don't think Kap is any dumber than Wilson, he's just been asked to do more. The Seahawks are treating Wilson properly by letting him gain the skills and experience he needs to make reads and go through progressions while allowing him do it in a natural way. They're not trying to mold him into anything he's not at the moment, they're letting him grow. We didn't do that with Kap.

 

[South Paw]

Like, I don't think Kap is any dumber than Wilson, he's just been asked to do more. The Seahawks are treating Wilson properly by letting him gain the skills and experience he needs to make reads and go through progressions while allowing him do it in a natural way. They're not trying to mold him into anything he's not at the moment, they're letting him grow. We didn't do that with Kap.

Wilson's football IQ is definitely higher than kaep, as kaep is definitely a better athlete than russ

 

[jwonder]

Like, I don't think Kap is any dumber than Wilson, he's just been asked to do more. The Seahawks are treating Wilson properly by letting him gain the skills and experience he needs to make reads and go through progressions while allowing him do it in a natural way. They're not trying to mold him into anything he's not at the moment, they're letting him grow. We didn't do that with Kap.

Kind of trips me out when people even compare the two. Wilson is not a read option QB. He played in a college and semi pro offensive style while at NC State and Wisconsin. He is more with the other success running QB's like Randall Cunningham and Steve Young. He can read defenses. When you are in the spread option bullshyt you don't have to. You are either handing the ball off, running it, or looking at ONE receiver.

 

[jwonder]

To me it's quite simple. Kap was doing really well in the scheme we had him in when he first started. It was a comfortable system for him. He wasn't asked to make difficult reads and he was allowed to be mobile which really opened up the field for him. Then (and I dunno if this was due to the media calling Kap a gimmick qb or because they wanted to run this offense the whole time), Roman and Harbaugh changed the offensive scheme into one that demanded Kap operated strictly from the pocket in a more traditional qb role. Kap has had a difficult time adjusting to this. He's struggling to get the hang of this new system. As soon as Greg and Harbaugh noticed this, they should have slowed it down and adjusted the system accordingly, but for some godforsaken reason they tried to plow on ahead and hope Kap would click. He hasn't.

I think Kap will be able to make the transition to a more complex scheme, but he needs to be coached properly through the transition. We tried to give him a baptism by fire and it didn't work. Hopefully the next coach is more willing to work with his advantages while teaching him the skills he needs to be an elite qb.

They changed it because defenses adapted to it. This is why you rarely see it this year at all. It's difficult to do four years of that simple gimmick offense and then go to the pro's to actually have to do multiple formations and actually have to read a defense. Kaep looks so awkward under center. The only offense that may help him is a Chip Kelly type offense.

I never understood the pick in the first place. Harbaugh offense is for a traditional pocket passer period. He never had a QB like Kaep in his entire coaching career. 49ers probably would be leading the division if they had that type of QB.

 

[FaTaL]

To me it's quite simple. Kap was doing really well in the scheme we had him in when he first started. It was a comfortable system for him. He wasn't asked to make difficult reads and he was allowed to be mobile which really opened up the field for him. Then (and I dunno if this was due to the media calling Kap a gimmick qb or because they wanted to run this offense the whole time), Roman and Harbaugh changed the offensive scheme into one that demanded Kap operated strictly from the pocket in a more traditional qb role. Kap has had a difficult time adjusting to this. He's struggling to get the hang of this new system. As soon as Greg and Harbaugh noticed this, they should have slowed it down and adjusted the system accordingly, but for some godforsaken reason they tried to plow on ahead and hope Kap would click. He hasn't.

I think Kap will be able to make the transition to a more complex scheme, but he needs to be coached properly through the transition. We tried to give him a baptism by fire and it didn't work. Hopefully the next coach is more willing to work with his advantages while teaching him the skills he needs to be an elite qb.

U forget this offense isn't the same at all from a personnel standpoint and this is Romans first time calling a passing game.

Your asking kaep and roman to do more

 

[LastEmperor2k2]

Like, I don't think Kap is any dumber than Wilson, he's just been asked to do more. The Seahawks are treating Wilson properly by letting him gain the skills and experience he needs to make reads and go through progressions while allowing him do it in a natural way. They're not trying to mold him into anything he's not at the moment, they're letting him grow. We didn't do that with Kap.

I`m absolutely certain he is dumber than Wilson when it comes to football smarts.

I`ve seen him make too many stupid decisions (1st and 10, 40 seconds to go 2 to's toss up a ball to Crabs and lose the game vs. Seattle, SB 3 striaght to cRabs, not knowing when to run outta bounds vs. NO last year)

He bottom line makes bad decision, game costing decisions at critical points of the game.

Wilson also throws it away much more often keeping his team from losing yards where Kaep runs into sacks

 

[King Kreole]

Wilson's football IQ is definitely higher than kaep, as kaep is definitely a better athlete than russ

it's possible, but it's difficult to guage based on our two systems asking the qbs to do different things

Kind of trips me out when people even compare the two. Wilson is not a read option QB. He played in a college and semi pro offensive style while at NC State and Wisconsin. He is more with the other success running QB's like Randall Cunningham and Steve Young. He can read defenses. When you are in the spread option bullshyt you don't have to. You are either handing the ball off, running it, or looking at ONE receiver.

You're correct, Wilson and Kap had 2 different systems in college and Wilson's was the one more suited to making the transition to a "pro style offense" more smoothly. But I don't think Kap will limited to being a one read, option qb. I think if we were to put him in a system similar to the one Seattle is running now, he'd have much more success. Remember, Russ isn't sitting in the pocket all day picking apart defenses. He's not Manning or Brady or even Luck. He's running an offense that is very easy on the QB. I'm not trying to shyt on Russ cuz he's doing his damn thing, but it is what it is. He's not asked to do very much in terms of picking apart defenses from the pocket.

 

[King Kreole]

They changed it because defenses adapted to it. This is why you rarely see it this year at all. It's difficult to do four years of that simple gimmick offense and then go to the pro's to actually have to do multiple formations and actually have to read a defense. Kaep looks so awkward under center. The only offense that may help him is a Chip Kelly type offense.

I never understood the pick in the first place. Harbaugh offense is for a traditional pocket passer period. He never had a QB like Kaep in his entire coaching career. 49ers probably would be leading the division if they had that type of QB.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/week-14-nfl-49ers-raiders-browns-chiefs-colts-cardinals/

That’s just a false construct. The read-option is still doing just fine for teams with better offensive lines and more effective quarterbacks. Hell, you don’t even need that; Blake Bortles was awful virtually all game against the Giants last week and set up the game-winning field goal with two keeps on the zone-read. Russell Wilson and Ryan Tannehill and the Eagles offense are all doing fine. Andy Dalton has run for a pair of read-option touchdowns the past two weeks. Cam Newton looked great yesterday, even at far less than 100 percent. It seems silly to point to Griffin’s obvious physical struggles and try to use that as proof that it’s a tactic on its last legs. Should the NFL stop drafting tall quarterbacks because Zach Mettenberger and Mike Glennon were both bad this year?

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/week-12-wrap-up-together-we-appreciate-football/

The read-option was supposed to be dead more than a year ago, with Phil Simms explaining how teams had stopped running it in college and Mike Tomlin calling it the “flavor of the day.” That famously didn’t go well for Tomlin’s Steelers, and while I could have sworn I saw a Saturday full of teams using zone-read principles as part of their rushing attacks this past weekend, maybe Simms was talking about colleges in another country.

The read-option is no passing fad. It isn’t the out-of-body experience that turned teams into zombies at the slightest hint of a mesh point in 2012, but it’s a meaningful part of professional offenses in a way that the Wildcat never was. While the effectiveness of the zone-read is down, its usage continues to go up, per ESPN Stats & Information’s data on NFL running plays:

Even as the tactic produces fewer yards per carry than it did in 2012 or 2013, it remains more effective than traditional carries, which have averaged just 4.1 yards per play this season. Teams with mediocre offenses and mobile quarterbacks have managed to manufacture running games out of next to nothing with the schematic help of the zone-read.

Take the Dolphins, a team that averaged 4.1 yards per carry last year in a West Coast scheme with an offensive line riddled by suspensions and departures. Miami turned over virtually its entire line this season, and with the arrival of offensive coordinator Bill Lazor from Philadelphia, the Dolphins also began implementing read-option concepts as a core component of their running game. It has helped dramatically, with Miami using the read-option on a league-high 143 rushing attempts this season, averaging 4.9 yards per carry on those runs. Their traditional running plays have gained just 4.4 yards per attempt.

Just behind them are the Seattle Seahawks, who have scored a league-high nine touchdowns on zone-read runs this season, with nobody else producing more than three. With an offensive line missing Pro Bowl center Max Unger and a passing game that really wishes Percy Harvin were still around, the Seahawks worked through a tough matchup against the Cardinals by calling on the read-option.

The Seahawks ran the ball 14 times for 67 yards using the zone-read on Sunday, producing 4.8 yards per attempt against a Cardinals defense that had allowed the league’s fifth-fewest yards per carry heading into the game. Not only did it work, but it also might have revealed a way for other teams to attack Arizona’s aggressive, defensive back–intensive scheme. The Cardinals are now allowing 4.3 yards on zone-read runs, almost a full yard more than the 3.5 yards per rush they allow on traditional rushes.

Even Arizona ran one zone-read play, an attempt foiled when Drew Stanton failed to read the player on the end of the line correctly and was hammered by Bruce Irvin for a 3-yard loss. It’s not a trick play or something you can run once per game to keep teams honest. The zone-read is a meaningful part of offensive schemes, no different from the play-action pass or the shotgun. It’s not going anywhere. And as long as that continues to mean quarterbacks running by confused defensive ends for big gains, I’m going to enjoy it.

I'm not saying we go to a primarily read option offense, I'm just asking for our offense to look like Seattle's, where they incorporate the QB's mobility into the offensive scheme to make things easier on him.

 

[King Kreole]

U forget this offense isn't the same at all from a personnel standpoint and this is Romans first time calling a passing game.

Your asking kaep and roman to do more

yeah exactly, and when Kap struggled to do more, we didn't adjust and make it easier for him and the entire offense, we just said fukk it and kept doing the same thing

 

[King Kreole]

I`m absolutely certain he is dumber than Wilson when it comes to football smarts.

I`ve seen him make too many stupid decisions (1st and 10, 40 seconds to go 2 to's toss up a ball to Crabs and lose the game vs. Seattle, SB 3 striaght to cRabs, not knowing when to run outta bounds vs. NO last year)

He bottom line makes bad decision, game costing decisions at critical points of the game.

Wilson also throws it away much more often keeping his team from losing yards where Kaep runs into sacks

Yeah this is fair enough, I'd concede that Wilson is a the smarter QB. What I should have said is that Kap isn't too dumb to be a good qb.

 

[jwonder]

He's not Manning or Brady or even Luck[/B]. He's running an offense that is very easy on the QB. I'm not trying to shyt on Russ cuz he's doing his damn thing, but it is what it is. He's not asked to do very much in terms of picking apart defenses from the pocket.

Nobody saying that at all. I'm comparing him to the other successful QB's who can read a defense, pass from the pocket, but they would just run because they were athletic. I really don't think Seattle's offense is that simple either. They have a very good running game. They draw up plays where Russ and move around and make plays. That is what you are supposed to do. Cater to your QB's strengths. 49ers don't do that with Kaep. Not sure if they can either. Future is bleak for Kaep if doesn't learn how to read a defense or get an offense that he can be successful. Looks like another RG3 right about now.

 

[yseJ]

To me it's quite simple. Kap was doing really well in the scheme we had him in when he first started. It was a comfortable system for him. He wasn't asked to make difficult reads and he was allowed to be mobile which really opened up the field for him. Then (and I dunno if this was due to the media calling Kap a gimmick qb or because they wanted to run this offense the whole time), Roman and Harbaugh changed the offensive scheme into one that demanded Kap operated strictly from the pocket in a more traditional qb role. Kap has had a difficult time adjusting to this. He's struggling to get the hang of this new system. As soon as Greg and Harbaugh noticed this, they should have slowed it down and adjusted the system accordingly

he isnt asked to do difficult reads now either. roman has repeatedly said they simplified the system and tons of plays out there are designed to go to one receiver with the rest setting up picks/drawing away coverage

the problem is kaep for some reason started to try and do too much instead of taking what defense gives him. that first pick against raiders is a prime example. he couldve checked it down to bruce for 2-5 yard gain and instead he ran around stared down crabtree in good coverage, threw off the backfoot and safety who read him all the way got the pick.

there was absolutely no reason to do that. all of a sudden he got the idea that he can make every throw out there given time. but...he can't. no qb ever can.

with that said, at least against seattle there were WAY too many deep routes, which really made no sense.

 

[LastEmperor2k2]

Yeah this is fair enough, I'd concede that Wilson is a the smarter QB. What I should have said is that Kap isn't too dumb to be a good qb.

I don't think he is either, he's shown the ability to protect the ball.

I do think they need to address him playing angry. I think he gets motivated by the wrong shyt