Question Regarding "Free Will" Conundrum.

[Hathaway]

Kind of similar to OP, but I've always wondered (and I believe I've even asked here before) why we are conditioned to follow the principles of the Bible e.g. the 10 commandments, yet once we're learned or grown enough to have our own opinions, thoughts, ideas you'll notice most everyone do not follow them. But yet, most people will still consider themselves "Christian". I'm not really into religion but I am spiritual, and it's things like what OP stated and this as to why I don't follow it. Seems to be more questions than answers, and I'm not a fan of "just believe" or whatever people say.

Despite my own personal beliefs concerning Christianity, I can admit that most of the values and morals listed in the bible are great ways to live. Of course omitting the earlier OT books of laws. Jesus' teachings were, for the most part, pretty reasonable to live by.

 

[Hathaway]

Welcome to the click minister.
I mean, to answer your question. Good without free will isn't good...it's just a set of instructions that everyone abides by because there's nothing else to choose.

So it can be argued that evil came about as a consequence of creation, like a penalty of sorts. It's like creating a coin, no matter how you create it it'll have two sides. Even if you only work on one side of the coin, the other side blank as it is, will still be a side as well.

Maybe God didn't create the tree itself, but the tree blossomed as a result of his creation. Creating light without creating shadow, perhaps it is possible, but then...what kind of light are you trying to create if it has no shadow? Is light without shadow as beautiful as light that casts forth shadows?

Now, as to why God chose to create beings capable as us knowing that it would be like that. Your guess is as good as mine.

You're applying laws and limits to a god that is supposed to exist outside of them though.

 

[null]

this makes no sense in the context of my comment, but you tried...hard

ya got me there breh ..


stunned into silence

 

[JasoRockStar]

Long story brah. I was a minister from 2013-2020. I've rebelled.

I can tell from the expansive vocabulary you be using in the bushes. You lived in the dictionary fam.

 

[Claudex]

Long story brah. I was a minister from 2013-2020. I've rebelled.

Aye, now that COVID put a dent on your faith. You gon' have to share with the brehs some of the fukkeries you witnessed as a minister in a thread sometime.

Come up off'em stories minister.

 

[Fillerguy]

This is not my creator. My mother and father is. I do not believe in god. Just a thought I posed for intellectual dialogue.

So why are you referring to the Bible and the Christian god? You're framing an argument about deterministism which is can be had without invoking gods. Involving god into this discussion will only undermine the premise....for example... How something that's "Free" be given?

 

[Hathaway]

I always interpreted it as perfect in a physical sense only.

"Let us make man in our image and likeness". Image meaning physical, likeness meaning the intangible. Things you can't see. If man was made like God then they would've been made perfect. The biblical definition of "perfect" is without sin. Adam & Eve were without sin and therfore, "perfect".

 

[Hathaway]

So why are you referring to the Bible and the Christian god? You're framing an argument about deterministism which is can be had without invoking gods. Involving god into this discussion will only undermine the premise....for example... How something that's "Free" be given?

Intellectual theological discussion. Nothing more.

 

[Claudex]

You're applying laws and limits to a god that is supposed to exist outside of them though.

Admittedly.
For as far as I know, the universe I live in has laws and limits.

People see evil as a bad thing, I mostly see it as a condition. The fruits of the tree are pretty catastrophic for sure, but the man who lives by the tree without ever having eaten from it is far far greater than the man who never ate from it simply because it never existed in his world.

Edit: And the man who has eaten from it but refrained from doing so again is greater still than both for he is fully aware of what he has lost.

There's something to be gained from the human condition, namely choosing to do good when evil is sometimes far more appealing. Whatever that "something to be gained" is, God seeks that out for whatever reason. One thing is for sure though, this thing I speak of requires the existence of free will or rather, the ability to do good knowing that you can do bad just as easily if not easier still.

The difference between Cain and Abel is that one gave the best that he could produce to His creator. Knowing fully well that he could've just eaten it himself and perhaps no great punishment would've befallen him. I mean, I doubt Cain would've done anything to Abel if both of them were committing the same sin.

 

[Complexion]

Intellectual theological discussion. Nothing more.

Have you ever considered that we are actually dead (to our true Self) and this here is hell?

Various tiers of suffering handed out on one prison planet depending upon whatever got you sent here to serve a life sentence in the flesh as your awareness is shrouded in a carbon based mobile cell that it mistakes as how it should be due to not questioning the paradigm or seeing beyond the limits you accepted due to a total lack of Self knowledge.

 

[Hathaway]

Have you ever considered that we are actually dead (to our true Self) and this here is hell?

Various tiers of suffering handed out on one prison planet depending upon whatever got you sent here to serve a life sentence in the flesh as your awareness is shrouded in a carbon based mobile cell that it mistakes as how it should be due to not questioning the paradigm or seeing beyond the limits you accepted.

I've read that theory before but never subscribed to it. Earth cannot be hell to those whom are rich enough to indulge in its splendor.

 

[ScottyG]

Believe the often edited and remixed Bible by men as the word of God brehs

Read king James version even tho they had a force field block around Harlem just for him

 

[Complexion]

I've read that theory before but never subscribed to it. Earth cannot be hell to those whom are rich enough to indulge in its splendor.

There are those that would rather reign in hell etc... Also you could consider them crooked COs who know the deal and profit well from both sides of the fence by leveraging their position. Plus the best way to make people forget the nature of hell is to make it look like heaven then train them to believe their lying eyes whilst their heart gently weeps. A disconnected nation... 81% are enslaved to concepts that do not serve their best interests and don't question the world pulled over their eyes. 11% know the deal and willfully mislead the rest for fun and profit. 8% see it for what it is and operate on a whole nother wavelength.

Made for a very interesting thought experiment back when as so many things lined up so well from this lens like the good dying young (due to early release) but demons running amok with seeming green cards for F-ery without consequence and just the general lay of the land as it stands.

Concepts evolved into what would become the Game of Souls and now I see this as one of the more difficult levels we're playing as a collective but certain things like free will are most definitely an illusion. Of that I'm certain from a neurological, psychological and hyperdimensional perspective. This is why I've said its much like a rollercoaster. Hold on to tight and you miss the point. Try and get out half way and you've got a problem.

Did you ever read those Choose Your Own Adventure books as a jit? Where you'd turn to page 96 if you wanted to do this or keep reading if you chose different? Thats how I think free will works as reality is scripted and its quite easy to take a look at someones programming if you know the specifics of their incarnation.

 

[Dad]

The Devil got kicked out of heaven cuz he wanted to do his own thing = free will

 

[Fillerguy]

Intellectual theological discussion. Nothing more.

Its so weird hearing non academic philosophical discussions about the bible because ppl always unintentionally slip into gnostic Christian concepts. Concepts that challenge the core of Christian beliefs, I spot two already in this thread

That shyt would've got you burnt at the stake in a post 500 AD world. Early Medieval Christians did their very best to snuff any and all them gnostic sects. So much lost knowledge.