So you still got guys who think Kyrie better than Wall????
They aren't repeat champs because even though Lebron is the engine of that team and the reason they win the series, Kyrie is still
Ungodly important.
What team gets farther in the playoffs, the Cavs without Lebron or the Cavs without Kyrie?
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
It would not matter breh.
You know this shyt goes through how the Boston media made all this shyt.
So, till someone does like mike and kill their whole argument on their premise.
You know nobody is gonna honor this comparison.
You can keep deflecting or asking all these jadakidss why face ass questions you posing.
Yet and still you know the fukk'n answer.
Just stop playing dumb, breh.
You know what this shyt is.
You trying to really get secondary points and real talk,...
Michael Jordan is also the best pg of all time as well.
So, why are you even asking us this and we know wall does not have the resume to compare to kyrie based on the criteria.
You know damn well exists and trying to change it into a dismissal of hardware and base it on the eye test.
When we just saw kyrie win the eye test flat out under duress again just like the finals consistently and also injured as well.
Just stop.
I like wall but he has no leg up in this discussion all time.
or in a current discussion about the regular season.
Especially, after last night.
Art Barr
Ya'll are bugging if you think most GMs who are building a team would take Kyrie as their starting point guard over Wall. Unless they already have a top notch passer (aka LeBron James) there's not a CHANCE.
When you put Wall with an elite big or an elite wing nikkas are really gonna see how his top notch facilitating, speed, defense (when he wants to) and scoring makes him a great player. You're already seeing it now with Beal and Porter finally playing up to expectations.
Is it a stretch to say he's a top 10 player this season?
Anyway, in short, Kyrie is better for LeBron James but John Wall is better for the vast majority of NBA teams and is the better overall player.
When you put Wall with an elite big or an elite wing nikkas are really gonna see how his top notch facilitating, speed, defense (when he wants to) and scoring makes him a great player. You're already seeing it now with Beal and Porter finally playing up to expectations.
Is it a stretch to say he's a top 10 player this season?
Anyway, in short, Kyrie is better for LeBron James but John Wall is better for the vast majority of NBA teams and is the better overall player.
Ariza, Gortat, Nene and Beal were one of the best starting lineups in the East during the 2013/14 season.
So now Ariza, Gortat, Nene and Beal ain't shyt, but Kyrie at 19 was getting production out of the corpse of Jamison?
I. Their #s are not the same - never mind the fact that you have to look at the totality of the teams and not just surface #s
II. Wall was 23 and 24 playing with those lineups when he went to the playoffs. Kyrie was 19, 20 and 21 - Wall wasn't leading shyt at the same age(s).
III. The Cavs hardly ever had a consistent starting lineup during Kyrie's first three seasons, and when they did it was mostly with players in their early 20s like Thompson and Waiters. Wall was playing with consistent lineups (starters who regularly played 90% of games); players whom were in their primes - Ariza (28), Gortat (29-30), Nene (31-32).
It's not even remotely the same. Stop with the revisionism.
That's because the team is built around LeBron's style, and they don't have an adequate wing player to replace him. Replace him with a player like Hayward and the Cavs would still be one of the best teams in the East. The Spurs have a better record WITHOUT Kawhi than they do with him this season because they have a more balanced squad, and not one that centers around Kawhi's style.
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Bledswole
Slappin and clowning chumps for fun.
Ariza, Gortat, Nene and Beal were one of the best starting lineups in the East during the 2013/14 season.
So now Ariza, Gortat, Nene and Beal ain't shyt, but Kyrie at 19 was getting production out of the corpse of Jamison?
I. Their #s are not the same - never mind the fact that you have to look at the totality of the teams and not just surface #s
II. Wall was 23 and 24 playing with those lineups when he went to the playoffs. Kyrie was 19, 20 and 21 - Wall wasn't leading shyt at the same age(s).
III. The Cavs hardly ever had a consistent starting lineup during Kyrie's first three seasons, and when they did it was mostly with players in their early 20s like Thompson and Waiters. Wall was playing with consistent lineups (starters who regularly played 90% of games); players whom were in their primes - Ariza (28), Gortat (29-30), Nene (31-32).
It's not even remotely the same. Stop with revisionism.
That's because the team is built around LeBron's style, and they don't have an adequate wing player to replace him. Replace him with a player like Hayward and the Cavs would still be one of the best teams in the East. The Spurs have a better record WITHOUT Kawhi than they do with him this season because they have a more balanced squad, and not one that centers around Kawhi's style.
Im done man yall in here trippinThis is what happens when you bullshyt your way through discussions - you end up having no counter argument.
Bledswole
Slappin and clowning chumps for fun.
All I'm going to say is this.
I guarantee there aren't 5 GM's who if they were starting their team from scratch they'd choose Kyrie over Wall.
Kyrie is what he is a guy that can create a shot for himself at a very high level and is pretty clutch
But that's where it ENDS
Wall is a phenomenal defender,he leads the league in steals,leads all PG's in blocked shots,has taken his team to the playoffs twice before this season,has made players around him better,averages 23,10,5 a night,and yet he isn't better than Kyrie?
Goodnight
I guarantee there aren't 5 GM's who if they were starting their team from scratch they'd choose Kyrie over Wall.
Kyrie is what he is a guy that can create a shot for himself at a very high level and is pretty clutch
But that's where it ENDSWall is a phenomenal defender,he leads the league in steals,leads all PG's in blocked shots,has taken his team to the playoffs twice before this season,has made players around him better,averages 23,10,5 a night,and yet he isn't better than Kyrie?
Goodnight
You just propped up a 35-year-old Jamison who was putting up mediocre #s on low efficiency on a shytty team - the type of #s that somebody needed to put up because the team lacked talent from top-to-bottom and were dealing with a # of injuries all throughout the season. Essentially #s that don't mean shyt. And then you had the nerve to shyt on Beal, Ariza, Gortat and Nene, who were one of the best starting lineups in the East in 2013/14.
shyt on Beal, Ariza, Gortat and Nene only to prop up the corpse of Jamison brehs.
You claim that the respective teams were the same when: Kyrie was playing with players who were far too old to have any real impact (Jamison), players who were in their early 20s, still developing and had limited skillsets (T.Thompson and Waiters), different combinations of starting lineups because a lack of talent, injuries and trades all throughout his first three seasons. You're comparing that to Wall who played with starters in their primes (Ariza, Gortat and Nene), a legit backcourt partner who often acted as the #1 option (Beal) and consistent starting lineups due to more talent, less injuries and less trades.
Tell me exactly how those are the same situations/teams?
You also conveniently glossed over the fact that Wall first took his team to the playoffs at age 23, whereas Kyrie at age 23 was the 1b option on a title team. Not only did Wall have the advantage of better teammates when he went to the playoffs, but he had the advantage of being older than Kyrie, because as we all know he wasn't leading his team anywhere when he was 19, 20 and 21.
Breh....kyrie can play d too on the low low.....go back to last years finals series and peep how many steals and blocks homie had.....he was puttin' in that workSo fukk defense?
fukk the ability to make players better?
fukk being a leader?
fukk winning and leading your team as the #1 option?
......only knock I give to kyrie is that he seems to have notches of intensity he brings to the game and it depends situational.....crunch time/big game.....but kyrie crunch time/big games offense and defensively is a nightmare for opposing teams......Wall is that nikka too, but I think he has benefitted from having to be THE man on his squad with a daily decent cast every season and his career has been longer so he's matured into his niche......kyrie is still maturing, which is lightweight scary
Who said anything about most GMs? I'm only speaking for myself. The intrinsic problem with picking Wall over Kyrie to start a team is that you're pretty much banking on the fact that Wall will turn into an elite scorer to carry the team as a #1 option, for the simple fact of how much he dominates the ball and is essentially ineffective without it.
I. Why are you speaking as if Beal and Porter aren't playing like All-Stars this season?
II. Beal's and Porter's consistency and improvements are largely down to them and not Wall dragging them to his 'level'
III. Beal and Porter are a top-5 wing support cast in the league; players whom don't need the ball in their hands to be effective - players that are a great fit for Wall's style.
IV. How will we see Wall take his play to another level if he has to share touches with another "elite" player?
Not at all.
You're undervaluing the ability to play off-the-ball here. Kyrie fits with more teams/players for the simple fact he doesn't need to dominate the ball in order to be effective on offense.
And that's another thing folk have to take into account, Kyrie raises his game in the playoffs, whereas from what we've seen from Wall - he trends in the opposite direction. I don't know why it's so hard for dudes to accept that others believe Kyrie's the better player. It's a reasonable position to hold. I mean if you took a fine-toothed comb over the Cavs '16 postseason you would see that Kyrie did more bulk scoring during the most pivotal parts than LeBron did. It's highly unlikely that Wall would be able to replicate that sort of impact in a postseason environment.
