The RZA Explains Why He Didn't Let Wu-Tang Clan Work With Outside Producers During Early Run

[Woodrow]

This shyt definitely was more because this my shyt and I’m the one who make the beats, and less because of some grand strategy.

i think it was both. he definitely had a vision, that's been proven. but rza is also a massive control freak, so i refuse to believe that didn't play a role as well.

it's always interesting to me when dudes are asked to reflect on their success. people sometimes embellish the story when they can already see the results of decisions that may have actually been fortune/luck/intuition at the time. it's human nature. not saying that's what rza did. but interestingly enough... after AZ appeared on my expert opinion, little shawn popped up on IG calling bullshyt on his "too cool for school" origin story. saying he very desperately wanted to be a rapper (to the point that after shawn got signed he would always hang up on him cause AZ was always calling him to rap), he owed a lot more people credit for it happening than he was letting on, and he didn't understand why AZ was remixing history.

 

[zayk35]

And that 5-7 yr run was legendary and it made him a "Made Man" I got him over Dre too for that time period

 

[Harry B]

"let" sounds odd, he was not their dad and did not have any legal power to stop dudes that were signed to completely different labels?

He cold kick them out of wu-tang perhaps.


"I didn't want people to dance I wanted to make hiphop" is also a wild cacish take.
Many earlier hiphop songs were very dance friendly and breakdancing is one of the 4 original elements.

 

[Double Burger With Cheese]

i think it was both. he definitely had a vision, that's been proven. but rza is also a massive control freak, so i refuse to believe that didn't play a role as well.

it's always interesting to me when dudes are asked to reflect on their success. people sometimes embellish the story when they can already see the results of decisions that may have actually been fortune/luck/intuition at the time. it's human nature. not saying that's what rza did. but interestingly enough... after AZ appeared on my expert opinion, little shawn popped up on IG calling bullshyt on his "too cool for school" origin story. saying he very desperately wanted to be a rapper (to the point that after shawn got signed he would always hang up on him cause AZ was always calling him to rap), he owed a lot more people credit for it happening than he was letting on, and he didn't understand why AZ was remixing history.

You articulated it perfectly. I wanted to expound but didn’t want to seem like I was hating on RZA lol

 

[Woodrow]

It's their story to tell, BUT as a fan gotta question the origin story/timeline of Meth's stage name

They had METHOD MAN across the screen, and those were his first words in Protect Your Neck song and video

and in the introduction for Method Man, the song starts with GZA running down their names....and Meth is the last name said as the song starts

Those were the two first songs they released. Only way this adds up is if they added the GZA intro to the song after it blew up on mixtape circuit

my understanding is "method man" -- or a version of it -- was in the street before the singles/videos. i could definitely be wrong cause it was a long time ago, but as i recall a friend from staten island who grew up around them and weebay from the wire said he had it early.

not saying it isn't bullshyt. just adding context.

 

[threattonature]

i think it was both. he definitely had a vision, that's been proven. but rza is also a massive control freak, so i refuse to believe that didn't play a role as well.

it's always interesting to me when dudes are asked to reflect on their success. people sometimes embellish the story when they can already see the results of decisions that may have actually been fortune/luck/intuition at the time. it's human nature. not saying that's what rza did. but interestingly enough... after AZ appeared on my expert opinion, little shawn popped up on IG calling bullshyt on his "too cool for school" origin story. saying he very desperately wanted to be a rapper (to the point that after shawn got signed he would always hang up on him cause AZ was always calling him to rap), he owed a lot more people credit for it happening than he was letting on, and he didn't understand why AZ was remixing history.

He also had financial reasons for wanting to keep the production in house as we know producers often make just as much if not more than the rappers on projects. By having others produce that would cut into the money he could personally make off their projects.

 

[The War Report]

He cemented their legacy with that sound.

 

[bigillwill06]

Love Rza but we also can’t forget key components of the production/beat making like 4th disciple, true master, mathematics, y Kim , etc. who added heavily to the production. Most of the cats I mentioned don’t fukk with Rza because of how he ran and controlled things and there were always big rumors that Rza would take 4ths beats and add a few things and take the production credit. It was alluded to with several beats on ob4cl only for Rza to shut that down and say he did EVERYTHING on that album…. I think the truth is somewhere in between because of how bitter all the wu elements seem to be where they don’t want nothing to do with wu anymore.


@BillyOcean would be someone who could expand on this shyt more even tho he tends to take the Rza perspective more than most….

 

[hex]

Love Rza but we also can’t forget key components of the production/beat making like 4th disciple, true master, mathematics, y Kim , etc. who added heavily to the production. Most of the cats I mentioned don’t fukk with Rza because of how he ran and controlled things and there were always big rumors that Rza would take 4ths beats and add a few things and take the production credit. It was alluded to with several beats on ob4cl only for Rza to shut that down and say he did EVERYTHING on that album…. I think the truth is somewhere in between because of how bitter all the wu elements seem to be where they don’t want nothing to do with wu anymore.


@BillyOcean would be someone who could expand on this shyt more even tho he tends to take the Rza perspective more than most….

I'm kinda curious what beats on "OB4CL" you're referring to because there's been a few "making of" documentaries or interviews and Rae, etc. said they were there when he made those beats.

"Glaciers Of Ice" for example was just the drum when they laid the vocals. They came back the next day and RZA had added everything else. Nobody else was even around.

Fred.

 

[Ziggiy]

i think it was both. he definitely had a vision, that's been proven. but rza is also a massive control freak, so i refuse to believe that didn't play a role as well.

it's always interesting to me when dudes are asked to reflect on their success. people sometimes embellish the story when they can already see the results of decisions that may have actually been fortune/luck/intuition at the time. it's human nature. not saying that's what rza did. but interestingly enough... after AZ appeared on my expert opinion, little shawn popped up on IG calling bullshyt on his "too cool for school" origin story. saying he very desperately wanted to be a rapper (to the point that after shawn got signed he would always hang up on him cause AZ was always calling him to rap), he owed a lot more people credit for it happening than he was letting on, and he didn't understand why AZ was remixing history.

Might be little shawn hating. I’ve NEVER heard anyone else, out of all the shade throwing that goes on in Hip Hop, say that anything about AZ is phony. Sometimes you just gotta chalk up the words of haters as haters if their story of events isn’t verified by anyone else.

Same thing for RZA. I know hip hop, and ESPECIALLY Wu-Tang embody the very ideal of self mythology but everyone and their mother who knew RZA back in the day can attest to his vision and strategic genius. Even Raekwon, at his loudest or U-God, at his surliest have said RZA’s vision is what put them on. So it wasn’t just about control or money (although i’m not denying those are factors or can become factors)

 

[Ziggiy]

Love Rza but we also can’t forget key components of the production/beat making like 4th disciple, true master, mathematics, y Kim , etc. who added heavily to the production. Most of the cats I mentioned don’t fukk with Rza because of how he ran and controlled things and there were always big rumors that Rza would take 4ths beats and add a few things and take the production credit. It was alluded to with several beats on ob4cl only for Rza to shut that down and say he did EVERYTHING on that album…. I think the truth is somewhere in between because of how bitter all the wu elements seem to be where they don’t want nothing to do with wu anymore.


@BillyOcean would be someone who could expand on this shyt more even tho he tends to take the Rza perspective more than most….

A lot of those people you mentioned have either come back into the fold or tried to come back into the fold in later years. And one thing about RZA is that he ALWAYS comes with receipts when someone in the camp tries to say he swindled them or did them dirty. Most of those artists/producers didn’t take the time to learn the business the way RZA and Divine did and were just expecting RZA to dole out unlimited money/budgets/credits like he was Willy Wonks and they were the oompa loompas. RZA had both Mathematics and 4th Disciple produce music and serve as advisors on the Wutang: An American Saga television series. He also made sure every member of the group was given a production credit even though they had very little to do with the creative direction of the series itself. RZA calls cap on the bullshyt when its presented to him and cops to what he did wrong or maybe could have done better but he also doesn’t allow any slander on his name when it comes to the creative and sonic direction of those first crop of Wu classics. When he says it was ALL him putting those albums together he always has specific stories or anecdotes about how each one came to be and who played what part and nobody ever counters him

 

[nieman]

It's their story to tell, BUT as a fan gotta question the origin story/timeline of Meth's stage name

They had METHOD MAN across the screen, and those were his first words in Protect Your Neck song and video

and in the introduction for Method Man, the song starts with GZA running down their names....and Meth is the last name said as the song starts

Those were the two first songs they released. Only way this adds up is if they added the GZA intro to the song after it blew up on mixtape circuit

They said Method Man was an older song. Everything else plays into fold later, but it was one of the earlier songs before they had different names. He's talking about his hood and them calling him Method Man. before it became a single.

 

[Ghostface Trillah]

It's their story to tell, BUT as a fan gotta question the origin story/timeline of Meth's stage name

They had METHOD MAN across the screen, and those were his first words in Protect Your Neck song and video

and in the introduction for Method Man, the song starts with GZA running down their names....and Meth is the last name said as the song starts

Those were the two first songs they released. Only way this adds up is if they added the GZA intro to the song after it blew up on mixtape circuit

It adds up. The method man song and protect your neck were around way before they became public. Most of enter the 36 chambers were songs off of their demo that was floating around Staten Island for months.

That’s why on Da Mystery of the chess boxing ODB shouts out Shakwon.

 

[bigillwill06]

I'm kinda curious what beats on "OB4CL" you're referring to because there's been a few "making of" documentaries or interviews and Rae, etc. said they were there when he made those beats.

"Glaciers Of Ice" for example was just the drum when they laid the vocals. They came back the next day and RZA had added everything else. Nobody else was even around.

Fred.

Check 4ths production credits on wiki…. He’s credited co producer on 3 ob4cl tracks. I’m not saying I believe them over Rza I’m just saying they definitely put in a lot of work and rumored even more uncredited. True Master made some of the NASTIEST wu bangers (Brooklyn zoo, fish, biscuits and a LOT of the best beats on tidal 2000 were true master)

 

[Artificial Intelligence]

Who put on more legends than RZA? I’ll wait