WSJ: Bernie Sanders' Policies Would Cost $18 Trillion Over 10 Years

Domingo Halliburton

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So hypothetically lets say the 18 trillion number is correct over the course of xx amount of years what would be the economic benefit of the country? If we undertook just some of the things proposed hypothetically they should return trillions and have other societal benefits.

@Domingo Halliburton @Futuristic Eskimo

That would be a hard thing to calculate. So you hire someone to build a bridge. You paid this amount of people xx amount of money to do the job. That's something you can quantify. Then you could say it cut miles for these commuters saving xx amount of dollars. Not to mention direct and indirect benefits and other factors. Issues like healthcare get vastly more complicated.

It would be projections you'd have to make years into the future and pay some consulting firm to figure out. Even then you could have a million different viewpoints and a million different ways to arrive at the numbers. I couldn't answer this question.
 

Mook

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So hypothetically lets say the 18 trillion number is correct over the course of xx amount of years what would be the economic benefit of the country? If we undertook just some of the things proposed hypothetically they should return trillions and have other societal benefits.

@Domingo Halliburton @Futuristic Eskimo

you freed 200 dollars a month you didnt pay for healthcare on something else.

That medicare tax would just be what you pay for healthcare.

I wish theyd tax the rich to smitherreens. You want to make 10 million in profit you better get it poppin a$$holes.
 

rapbeats

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no it isn't, its an illustration of what we as a country actually spend money on. The things that should matter, like healthcare and education? We always somehow "never have the money" for these things. Yet no matter what, we always scrape up enough change to buy 10 new helicopters or what have you. We have citizens robbing banks to pay for their child's cancer treatment. People aren't worried about where the money will come from unless it's socialistic ideals like welfare, healthcare and free education. Other countries can afford to give their citizens free healthcare and free college level education but America can't? :beli: this isn't all directed at you, I'm just ranting.


People aren't worried about where the money will come from unless it's socialistic ideals like welfare, healthcare and free education. Other countries can afford to give their citizens free healthcare and free college level education but America can't?


^^^thank you. but it gets deeper than this. There's a main reason why The american people get all upset about "Socialistic ideas" Its because its a majority white country(not for long). These people in essence are saying "i dont want to pay for no messicans and ...gers to have free healthcare, free education." thats how they think about it. i've heard them say this many times. Check those comment sections. Go ahead and listen to a little fox news and rush. this is whats being said and implied.

while the broke white folks are saying this. they are actually killing their own help. its that thing where you believe the welfare queen is some shiftless, lazy black chick with 100 kids on her hip. when in reality its more white people on it than anyone. the % of people on it doesnt matter in the context of this argument. its the sheer number that counts. WHO NEEDS IT? YOU DO. so stop shooting yourself in the foot because you're scared my black a... might get a hook up.(even though you owe me reparations anyway..but thats another story).
 

rapbeats

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That would be a hard thing to calculate. So you hire someone to build a bridge. You paid this amount of people xx amount of money to do the job. That's something you can quantify. Then you could say it cut miles for these commuters saving xx amount of dollars. Not to mention direct and indirect benefits and other factors. Issues like healthcare get vastly more complicated.

It would be projections you'd have to make years into the future and pay some consulting firm to figure out. Even then you could have a million different viewpoints and a million different ways to arrive at the numbers. I couldn't answer this question.
wait wait. you said healthcare get vastly more complicated? says WHO?

it actually is LESS complicated.

do you know the one issue they had with implemented obama care when it came to the IT side of things? everyone has their own database. Anthem Blue Cross of California has theirs. What used to be Horizon BlueCross Blue SHield New Jersey has their own. even though they are both Blue cross. They aint under the same mother company (one was under anthem, the other under horizon). Different databases can mean a lot of differences even the simple differences can muck up a system change. which is what was going on with all the state exchanges.

your system has to connect to the state system. to pull that off. your database info Headers in each table(or if you imagine using excel, the headers of each column) has to be the exact same or you have to program it to where it knows that the exchange column/table thats called Policy ID# = Member Number on Blue Cross' system. That stuff alone multiplied by who knows how many tables/columns. can make it hell to implement a new system.

But i will tell you this. everyone has their own guidelines to some degree. but they all have come to agree on one set of guidelines as far as billing actual claims/claim forms. its called CMS guidelines. thats a UNIVERSAL guideline. so even though healthcare is still a private ran thing aside from medicaid(state level govy plans)/ and medicare (fed level govy plans). with all that privatization these companies realized they needed to have some guidelines across the board. the claim form was one of them. HCPC codes/ICD9 (will be icd10 in october), etc. all universal.

a lot of times when some of these smaller insurance companies need to come up with a Contracted Rate. They use Medicare or medicaid(state) contract rates. There are times they will use medicare guidelines as far as what they deem to be medically necessary.

Why do you think this is?

Because its much easier to streamline your process if you can use a tried and true method.

The government has tight guidelines on things that are covered, not covered, what they deem experimental until further proven otherwise. Sure they could loosen that leash a bit if we go single payer. But what you would get with everyone on the SAME system. is Everyone's ID# is the exact same(not same number, but the name type of alpha numeric number or all alpha or all numeric number. our group numbers will be formatted the same, our claims will have the same type of codes. the qualifications for something to be medically necessary would be the same for everyone. unless they want to break it up by age or by medical condition(diagnosis). doing this. stream lines the entire process of, processing claims, getting claims paid, and even appealing denials, etc. that saves tons of times, which saves Tons of money.

i'll give you a simple example of time spent.
a claim is billed to Anthem Blue Cross of CA for $1000,
BC denies a portion of the claim incorrectly, and only pays $200.00

Some rep calls and sends off an appeal letter saying Hey you owe us an addtl 800.00. this rep has to attach a new claim with the appeal letter.

BC denies the new claim as a duplicate to the old claim. even though the rep stated clearly that it was a reprocessed claim.

the provider gets the denial. but depending on how much work load they have. no telling the next time some rep will see this old claim again.

someone finally gets to it 4 months later. calls blue cross. tells them what happened. some rep from Blue cross who's actually from the Philippines or india or some other foreign country is handling their calls. said rep sends it back to be reprocessed. or so they say.

2 months later, provider rep runs into an unpaid claim again. he/she sends another letter and calls again to find out whats the hold up.

Blue cross says we didnt get a claim sent back for review 2 months ago its just sitting there.

wait so that foreigner rep didnt even do his/her job right? NOPE they didnt.

and guess what. now Blue cross is saying doesnt matter now, if you send it again, it will deny for Timely(meaning it exceeded the alloted time frame you can have a claim sent back to be reprocessed.)

do you know how much those reps get in those positions? i'll tell you this, its more than min wage. Think about all the time it took for that to go back n forth. the cost to mailing that appeal out TWICE. the phone calls, etc. you're wasting private companies times on both ends. and wasting their money and one of the companies is going to lose money on the deal in the end.

that wasted time and 5 extra touches or so. probably cost them $300, not counting the money they lost in the end.

single payer means. claims goes thru the system. gets incorrectly processed. some provider rep calls an AMERICAN rep, that knows what they are doing. and the claim is reprocessed on the spot. time saved. $$$ saved. now multiply that savings by as many reprocessible claims that are out there in the wild.

everyone in the nation would know and understand their benefits. something that does not happen today. people dont really understand how their health insurance works. so thats another issue.

single payer also means these outside providers can get called out for over charging for their services/products. if a wheelchair costs $500 to make, market, R&D, and a little profit at the end. fine. $500 it is. but if it only costs you $60 to make. sorry bruh inc. you cant sell that to an insurance company for $500, making a $440 profit on every wheel chair. thats ludicrous. and ludicrous is exactly where the healthcare industry is right now. Because people dont know the prices things should be. they are being scared into choosing anything thats out there because its their healthy. so usually you dont have time to go bargain shopping. sure the insurances do it a bit but not enough. so that alone saves everyone money. the only people that have an issue now are the providers OVER CHARGING for products. no more would they be able to make GREAT money. but they would be able to make GOOD steady money since EVERYONE aind their mama would be insured.

truth is, if the govvy insures us all. the govvy can also say, yall have to start eating right. or else you will get penalized. this can get scary to those that "dont want to be told anything, even though they need to be told things that help them." they may get on us about exercising. because the more we take care of our bodies the healthier we are in general. and the less you see people getting really sick which costs a lot of money to deal with. this saves a TON of money and again helps the avg joe citizen as well.

last but not least. a single payer system makes it much easier to pull data and find trends of whats working and whats not. and if its a public system. guess what? they have to supply all that data to every citizen. meaning the cost of everything has to be available. the historical data has to be there. so even lay persons like us can pull that information and perhaps run our own data analysis and find out issues/trends, etc. and take that to the media to shed light on loop holes, or just bad business practices. its hard as hell to do that when you have so many PRIVATE entities involved. your big daddy insurance company will just say we are about to do a rate hike. they dont have to tell you WHY and break it down point by point. thats because its a private company not public.
 

Brown_Pride

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Don't buy their shyt? Muthafukka, u changed the damn tax laws, anybody who has a capability to produce those goods and services at the rate and capacity of the company ur throwing a hissy fit about is gonna get hit the same goddamn way. It's fukking stupid populist half-baked bullshyt that won't work.

How bout we tax ur ass at 90%? shyt, nikka u don't produce a goddamn thing. U just consume all goddamn day. U can jerk off to online porn and download mixtapes living at the Y. This whole shyt is dumb as fukk. The companies are making beaucoup profits cuz we buyin beaucoup shyt from em cuz we like the shyt beaucoup. This is like being a broke ass weedhead n ur dealer sells the best weed in the city and because u see his ass drive by in a beem u wanna increase the tax on his ass to 90%. Foh, let that boy cook. Produce a good or a service and demand a payment for said good/service then see if u want some hippity hop shythead online trying to take 90% of ur profit away because his ass feels some type of way.
First off, tax me 90% and as an accountant i'll run my shyt through so many loop holes the gov will end up owing me money.

Secondly, I'm all for "letting the boy cook" within the rules of the game, stop trying to make the rules of the game so easy we owe these fuks nothing. THEY MUST play by the rules of the game or they can fuk off. There's nothing wrong with changing the rules of the game.

Thirdly, If you want to discuss stop bringing up the following: weed, being lazy, drug dealers, stealing, etc, it's at best hyperbole at worst you being a white guy trying to act black so as to lend credibility to your bunk ass view.
 

Brown_Pride

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That money is gone already. I agree in principle, but throwing that into this conversation is more of an emotional plea:manny:
It's not really an emotional plea it's a matter of reviewing expense. We expensed 1.7 trillion on a war that has benefited NO ONE but a few well connected companies. Taking that into consideration isn't what Bernie's proposing better? We justified the 1.7 and more or less knew it was going to be a cluster fuk, we can't justify spending money to invest in our own infrastructure? Our own children? Our own future? There's a disconnect there.
 

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Why Health Care Is Expensive As fukk In Murica
By
In My Brain, I Got A ¢apitali$t Migraine

Health care is not expensive because of medical procedures. It is not expensive because of doctors' salaries. It is not expensive because of the cost of medicine. It is not expensive because of a correlation between cost and education of health care professionals.

Health care in America is expensive because in all actuality, your life is cheap. It's worthless. There is another you being born right now, with the same faggy interests and proclivities and gay hopes n dreams and unrealistic goddamn ambitions and creepy feelings around playgrounds filled with kids. A human life alone isn't worth the paper a birth certificate is printed on.

What makes a human life worth something is:

  • Where the nikka is living
  • What the nikka brings to the economy of the place where he's living
Health care is expensive because u are getting stitched and stapled the fukk up and sent back out into the greatest goddamn country on Earth. Sweet Jesus, u could get hit by a car driven by an illegal alien on Thursday, be out of the hospital and a new gun owner on Friday, go down to the border and blow the brains out of some illegals in retaliation on Saturday, and attend a prayer breakfast with a politician u support because he/she is pro-life on Sunday. "Well, Canada got free healthcare, why can't we have it?" Cuz Canada is cold as shyt and boring as fukk and the only thing keeping those a$$holes from speaking Russian is the foot we have up the world's ass.

Expensive health care is the price u pay for the privilege of being able to live in this country. U dramatically reduce the cost of health care, ur ass is just gonna get taxed somewhere else. Someone has to pay for socialist programs, some form of free enterprise has to be allowed to occur to generate revenues to provide free shyt for peasants. If health care costs too damn much, move somewhere else, but u won't, because u like it here and ur spoiled fukking rotten, and even if u could get a heart transplant for $10.99 somewhere else it wouldn't be worth it because the quality of life there is shyt compared to here.

The only goddamn way socialism would work in this country is if we let the Chinese take over everything, because they would be the only ones capable of being our benefactors. I couldn't lure u a$$holes into a dark alley with a promise of a free gold watch, so why the fukk would u let a shythead politician finesse u out of ur vote with his "free this, free that" bullshyt?
My nikka...start a blog :banderas:
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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So you have no problem with corporations paying no taxes? You have no problem with Google's headquarters being in some tax haven in the Caribbean or buying a pair jeans for $45.99 that literally cost $4 to produce?

Do you enjoy living in an oligarchy?
I have a problem with it...but then again, I don't like how Apple is routing their money through Ireland simply because its more competitive for them to do so :wow:...and its not illegal... :wow:

so...moralizing and being emotional won't get these behemoths to change :wow:
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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How much money did wallstreet rob this country of? How much money did we spend on the Iraqi war?

The U.S. war in Iraq has cost $1.7 trillion with an additional $490 billion in benefits owed to war veterans, expenses that could grow to more than $6 trillion over the next four decades counting interest

I guess we have no money so we can provide healthcare and education to citizens but we can pay for war and missiles and aircraft and drones, etc.
Wall St paid the money back (allegedly)

Iraq? Really? Stop it.
 

Ill Lou Malnati

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Write the fukking check. :manny:

It's not like our government gives a damn about how much it spends anyway.
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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But the Russians! And the Chinese! And the AY-RABS!! :damn:
Its funny how coy some of you all can be when while they're not beating down the block yet, that there are actual existential threats that you don't even have to deal with by virtue of having a US passport. The average citizen elsewhere is literally always on the frontlines of whatever their country is going through geopolitically. You don't know how good you really have it.
 

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First off, tax me 90% and as an accountant i'll run my shyt through so many loop holes the gov will end up owing me money.

Secondly, I'm all for "letting the boy cook" within the rules of the game, stop trying to make the rules of the game so easy we owe these fuks nothing. THEY MUST play by the rules of the game or they can fuk off. There's nothing wrong with changing the rules of the game.

Thirdly, If you want to discuss stop bringing up the following: weed, being lazy, drug dealers, stealing, etc, it's at best hyperbole at worst you being a white guy trying to act black so as to lend credibility to your bunk ass view.
What are you arguing? For enforcing existing rules (something I agree with) or tightening the belt on businesses just for existing?
 

ExodusNirvana

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Its funny how coy some of you all can be when while they're not beating down the block yet, that there are actual existential threats that you don't even have to deal with by virtue of having a US passport. The average citizen elsewhere is literally always on the frontlines of whatever their country is going through geopolitically. You don't know how good you really have it.
I mean there are knowns...and unknowns

But there are also known knowns and known unknowns
 

Domingo Halliburton

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So you have no problem with corporations paying no taxes? You have no problem with Google's headquarters being in some tax haven in the Caribbean or buying a pair jeans for $45.99 that literally cost $4 to produce?

Do you enjoy living in an oligarchy?

Blame government for corporations paying no taxes.

To the jeans point it's supply and demand. Don't have to buy them... you as a consumer has a choice. Plenty of discount retailers out there.
 

Brown_Pride

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What are you arguing? For enforcing existing rules (something I agree with) or tightening the belt on businesses just for existing?
closing loop holes and creating a tax code that benefits our society as a whole, not just a very small percentage of our society.

Not sure why that's viewed as odd these days?
 
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