A few hours ago an NBA source insisted to me that the Warriors flat-out will not agree to any of the proposals Minnesota is currently suggesting in the Kevin Love discussions.
Not now, not in a day, not in 400 days.
The first stumbling block: The Warriors are making it clear to everyone in the league, including Minnesota president Flip Saunders, that they very much do not want to part with Klay Thompson, the key part of any Minnesota demand.
Second big stumbling block: The Warriors have zero desire to take back expensive, no-defense shooting guard Kevin Martin in the deal, the source said.
–Note: David Lee has to be part of this deal and both sides have generally agreed to this in the informal talks. He’s a productive offensive player and rebounder and Minnesota knows Lee’s salary must be included to make any deal with the Warriors work.
–Also, the Warriors would have no need for another high-salary power forward if they received Love.
–Lee is not the problem. He’s not a value-add to the deal, but he’s not considered a stumbling block, by either team.
–The problem issues are everything else that would have to go into any Warriors-Timberwolves deal.
I don’t know if the Martin element is non-negotiable for either side (Minnesota insisting and/or the Warriors blanching), but it sounds like, at the very least, the Warriors would need more enticement (beyond Love) to consider taking Martin back.
That might be where the talk about the #13 overall pick plays into it.
Or hypothetically, Minnesota absorbing Marreese Speights or something like that.
But the combination of taking back Martin
while moving Thompson… that might be the true non-starter here for the Warriors, that shooting guard give-and-take.
If my source is anywhere close on this–and I believe he is–the Warriors won’t even consider putting Thompson into any deal that includes them taking Martin, period.
You see, Martin has three years, $22.2M left on his contract.
And also, he’s not very good–one of the worst defensive players in the league and a scorer who doesn’t do much of anything else offensively.
I know the PER-obsessives believe Martin is still quite good (he had a better PER than Thompson this season), but this is almost certainly not an accurate overall view of these two players’ true value.
Actually, Martin is terrible and getting worse–if Minnesota moves on from him, it’d be the fourth team that did so, quite happily–and as he moves deeper into his 30s, this kind of zero-defense, all-shoot player typically takes a career nose-dive right about here.
A question for the PER-obsessives: Just because PER doesn’t factor in defense, that means defense doesn’t really matter? No. That would be the wrong way to look at this.
That’s my opinion and that’s apparently the opinion of several in the Warriors front office, especially at Martin’s salary number.
I think PER is a great overall OFFENSIVE stat, but it’s not the be-all, end-all, nor did my friend John Hollinger come up with it to be the be-all, end-all.
Anyway, the important thing is that the Warriors and Minnesota are dancing around each other’s requests and desires and so far they don’t have enough of a common ground…
-The Warriors want it to be structured around
Lee + Harrison Barnes for Love.
-And Minnesota wants it structured around
Lee + Klay Thompson + other Warriors items for Love + Martin.
You can figure there are many other potential pieces either team might try to get, such as: Minnesota’s #13 pick, the Warriors’ 2015 first-round pick, Draymond Green, etc…
There are all sorts of different combinations. And nobody knows yet when Saunders will do this deal and what it’d take for him to do it… and what the best offer will be at that point.
But for right now, whether you consider it posturing or just real ground-in stances, the Warriors and Timberwolves seem a bit stalemated, mostly on the Kevin Martin/Klay Thompson issue.
Yes, the Warriors are extremely reluctant to break up the Thompson/Stephen Curry back court, especially because of the defensive responsibilities Thompson carries and his relative youth (he’s 24).
Also, I’ve heard that Steve Kerr absolutely wants to coach the Curry/Thompson back court… he’s a fan of getting Love, of course, but it’s the idea of getting Love without giving up Thompson that really excites the Warriors’ decision-makers. If that’s possible.
What happens if the Warriors can’t get Love?
There are a few three-point shooting power forwards that might interest Kerr. I could see the Warriors exploring what it’d take to land Phoenix’s Channing Frye, who has a $6.8M player option for next season and has until Tuesday to exercise it… or decide to become an unrestricted free agent.
Frye was a University of Arizona teammate of Andre Iguodala’s and, like Iguodala, is represented by Rob Pelinka. The last time Frye switched teams, he signed with the Suns in July 2009… when their GM was Steve Kerr.
* Another NBA source said that the Warriors are leery of trading away their 2015 first-round pick because they don’t have a No. 1 this year and they’ve traded away their 2017 pick, which means they can’t trade either their 2016 or 2018 picks.
You give up your 2015 pick, you’ve locked yourself out of being able to maneuver in the draft for five years.
OK, that’s the latest update. There will be many more.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawaka...kevin-martin-dont-want-include-klay-thompson/
to Minny though for giving Martin that contract
