2016 HL WPOY Nomination Thread

David_TheMan

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You don't understand the way Keynesian economics works to make the first half of your statement. It's not like you just start it, and we all shoot upwards to peak employment. When you have a supply of labor, you increase the demand for it, by increasing the demand for items/commodities that demand labor. Again, common sense. This is why you see the need for unions rise, until everyone is satisfied, which all indications of the 1950's, outside of minorities says they were. Hell, they were so satisfied that a counterculture movement started. Once sated, the supposed need for unions started dropping, while the right wing was setting up its next strike. They would be had no chance in hell, if botch ass LBJ didn't refuse to run again because of Vietnam. He gave the presidency to Nixon.

As far as your second half, the Israeli crises caused the oil spikes. It was a steady variable for Keynesian, but such a hard spike threw the math off. We haven't tried trusting it again, because the Right Wing has been in charge since the 1970's.

I understand how Keynesian economics is run and I understand the principles it operates under, so I don't really understand what you are trying to critique when you claim don't understand.

Labor isn't one homogenous supply first off so your initial statement is wrong, different industries have different needs in laborers that everyone will not meet, so the supply for a given job is constantly in flux, not to mention the financial stablity of the company producing in that industry and the competition it faces in terms of workers from other firms in that industry or if there is overlapp with other industries. So your blanket contention has some serious holes in it.

Your comment on labor has no connection to your attempt to link it to the rise of union membership, which still never amounted to more than mid 30% of the total us private workforce.
Counterculture movement have nothing to do with economic analysis of Keynesian economic, min wage, nor austrian economics. Its a rather pointless aside.

Yom Kipor war didn't cause an increase in oil, even the largest US friendly oil exporter in the region at the time, Iran, said it was because of the out of whack monetary policy of the US that lead to the oil increase. That monetary policy being the delinking of the currency with gold to allow increased spending no longer limited by having to maintain even the tneous connection it had with actual gold backing.
 

David_TheMan

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An unmet demand however wont lead to any economic impact, so its not a REAL demand, real demand is that which is sated in consumption and can be measured objectively. Your original argument was "fact of the matter is more jobs don't grow the economy, expanded markets and new markets do." that is a chicken or egg argument because you cant have new or expanded markets without more jobs, its a symbiotic relationship that leads to economic growth.
You cherry-picked the word money and made a semantical argument :francis: when its clear i was using money as a substitute for value, because money is the form which value takes in our economic system, giving people more value does result in more consumption = more growth.

GDP isn't perfect but it is effective at giving us an objective idea of an abstract concept.

Ye i could give you the etymology of the word and what it means in Greek that doesn't mean shyt... monopolies existed before modern economies, monopolies can also exist in non-capitalist systems but monopolies are inextricably linked with capitalism, because capitalism has a tendency towards monopoly, it is the END GAME that a business strives for, the ideal market condition.

Cronyism runs rampant in a free market, when the government has no regulatory power AT ALL, that's when you get corporatism. removing regulation is not the answer to crony capitalism.

yes the demand is still real, not fake or whatever you want to claim.

Demand is met when it is supplied, but the act of the market indicating a demand is still real.

My original argument hasn't really been disproved or really addressed by you, you attempt to sidestep it, but you never address the logical point. Will a firm enter a estalblished market or enter a new market if knows there is no demand for the production in said market? The answer is clearly no.

With my previously analogy, if I make wooden teeth today and hire a factory and workers to make them, if there is no demand has the economy grown? No, I will be out of business, why? Because I misallocated my investment in a market in which there was no demand, and the market rejected me.

I didn't cherry pick anything, I"m getting to the underlying problem with your reliance on everything outside of the essential fact that market growth or market creation is the only thing that increases the size of an economy. Money doesn't, jobs don't.

GDP isn't perfect at all, and it doesn't provide objectivity or a good measure of economic health.

You could give me the greek origin of the word, and if you did you would be right, just like I was factually right about the early designation of what a monopoly initially meant, not just domination of the market, but government enabled domination of a market.

Yes monopolies can exist in non-capitalist system, they typically do, its easier to form in non-capitalist systems where you can create artificial barriers of entry into markets if you are politically connected.

Monopolies aren't inextricably linked with capitalism as with any other system, in fact in a free market the ability to create a monopoly is extremely hindered, this is why your robber barons of the US worked to create government policy to stop competition, ie capitalism.

Nope monopoly isn't the end game for all business in a capitalist system. Profitablitity is, and even that varies depending on the owner/s.

Cronyism can't run rampent in a free market, because in a free market there is no government link at all with the business class. There for its impossible to appoint buisness insiders to make policy or aid their companies, because there is no government apparatus to do so.
 

MrSinnister

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I understand how Keynesian economics is run and I understand the principles it operates under, so I don't really understand what you are trying to critique when you claim don't understand.

Labor isn't one homogenous supply first off so your initial statement is wrong, different industries have different needs in laborers that everyone will not meet, so the supply for a given job is constantly in flux, not to mention the financial stablity of the company producing in that industry and the competition it faces in terms of workers from other firms in that industry or if there is overlapp with other industries. So your blanket contention has some serious holes in it.

Your comment on labor has no connection to your attempt to link it to the rise of union membership, which still never amounted to more than mid 30% of the total us private workforce.
Counterculture movement have nothing to do with economic analysis of Keynesian economic, min wage, nor austrian economics. Its a rather pointless aside.

Yom Kipor war didn't cause an increase in oil, even the largest US friendly oil exporter in the region at the time, Iran, said it was because of the out of whack monetary policy of the US that lead to the oil increase. That monetary policy being the delinking of the currency with gold to allow increased spending no longer limited by having to maintain even the tneous connection it had with actual gold backing.
FDR takes United States off gold standard - Jun 05, 1933 - HISTORY.com

It happened in the 1930's. You're very articulate, but wrong on essentially everything. I'm going to have to fix a lot of this shyt on Sunday, as it's way too many assertions, through multiple posts that have no basis in reality but you're pushing hard.

I'm going on my base knowledge right now, and my bullshyt meter is ringing on overtime. I just don't have the energy, with things to do tomorrow to deal with it yet.
 

David_TheMan

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FDR takes United States off gold standard - Jun 05, 1933 - HISTORY.com

It happened in the 1930's. You're very articulate, but wrong on essentially everything. I'm going to have to fix a lot of this shyt on Sunday, as it's way too many assertions, through multiple posts that have no basis in reality but you're pushing hard.

I'm going on my base knowledge right now, and my bullshyt meter is ringing on overtime. I just don't have the energy, with things to do tomorrow to deal with it yet.
You are confusing different types of gold standards and the area of effect.
FDR ended domestic gold bullion standard.
Nixon ended international gold exchange standard.

Nixon Ends Convertibility of US Dollars to Gold and Announces Wage/Price Controls - A detailed essay on an important event in the history of the Federal Reserve.

Again you are factually wrong.
 

MrSinnister

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You are confusing different types of gold standards and the area of effect.
FDR ended domestic gold bullion standard.
Nixon ended international gold exchange standard.

Nixon Ends Convertibility of US Dollars to Gold and Announces Wage/Price Controls - A detailed essay on an important event in the history of the Federal Reserve.

Again you are factually wrong.
Either way...Keynsian economics has no timeline in these things.

We detached from the dollar in the 1930's. We stopped trying to control the gold price in 1971.

Again, you're tiring.
 

David_TheMan

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Either way...Keynsian economics has no timeline in these things.

We detached from the dollar in the 1930's. We stopped trying to control the gold price in 1971.

Again, you're tiring.

Internatinoally we did not detach the dollar from gold until Nixon, which is what directly effected international trade and oil.
So yeah, you were wrong.

FDR a Keynesian as well.
 

Domingo Halliburton

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Austrian school of thought produce a lot of waste, which slows economic power and growth. Recent developments have been the complete failure of quantitative easing to try to stop companies from naturally falling and failing due to the enormous amounts of waste they produce, while paying people more for their labor would remove it.

how is quantitative easing even remotely an austrian policy? you almost disqualified yourself from speaking further right here.

This shyt is just common sense. The lower your collective wages are, the quicker you reach your saturation level. It's why a no minimum wage policy will ALWAYS fail an ecomomy. When a few companies start falling you will feel the temptation to lower wages, which is a huge mistake. The solution is to let companies come out of the ashes of the failures, which we don't do anymore, and the power of the wages help them to grow to fill the gap quicker. You simply have to pick a minimum and fair wage, and never go under it...ever.

you are now pretty much making the basic austrian argument here.

Quantitative easing and Operation Twist are just programs used by central banks to buy waste. A true proponent of economies would be to create as little waste as possible. You do this by having as many people as possible be able to afford things, especially when they're working for the same companies that produce the most waste.

your first sentence I agree....and second sentence, sure. Third sentence kind of makes sense, Henry Ford philosophy and all that, but I don't know how you're defining "waste."
 

David_TheMan

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What if it's a service economy?
You can swap out good produced with service rendered,

Increasing the money supply increases GDP in the near term. I know you'll love that argument. :heh:












Edit:
Do you man. Its an echo chamber in here with these socialists. I applaud you.

While I don't know where you stand, I got respect for anyone who can show his fellow man respect.
:salute:
Increasing the money supply increases GDP in the near term. I know you'll love that argument. :heh:












Edit:
Do you man. Its an echo chamber in here with these socialists. I applaud you.

While I don't know where you stand, I got respect for anyone who can show his fellow man respect.
:salute:
 
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