2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[Cheddar Biscuits]

So basically they said that M4A would cause them to lose the current healthcare they have?

I assume that's the lie?

They lied about more than that, actually. Unions aren't just about healthcare. They're about managing bargaining power between workers and the owners of capital. The Culinary union wants business owners to have the freedom to keep your wages low by using your health insurance as leverage against you. When confronted with this, they released a pamphlet claiming that giving business owners this power actually strengthens your right to organize, bargain, and strike.

Why Nevada’s powerful Culinary Union has issues with Bernie Sanders
Why Would A Union Oppose Medicare For All? ❧ Current Affairs
Sanders Argues Medicare for All Is Vital for Union Workers: 'They're Losing Wage Increases Because Cost of Healthcare Is Soaring'

And this isn't getting into what they're currently doing, which is helping Warren and Klobuchar paint anyone organizing for M4A as an online harasser for criticizing these decisions.

 

[storyteller]

We agree that M4A was the beginning of the decline, but I don't see how she defended the right flank instead of the left. She never spoke down on M4A or use the right flank lines of attack about affordability.

Just to add a correction I had to edit in. Her steepest decline coincided with Bernie's health being cleared up in October. But that's beyond campaign strategy imo. She had no way of protecting those votes from going back to Bernie once he proved viable.

I'm not saying she used the right flank lines of attack about affordability. But she did distance herself from Bernie via the discussion on funding.

She increased her support for M4A by coming out with her own plans for it and attempted to show its viability. Her choosing to do M4A without increasing taxes on the middle class was a 100% fair distinction to draw from Bernie.

We've discussed this before, but the wonks don't agree with her approach. The funding mechanism simply isn't sustainable long term. Couple a potentially degrading funding mechanism with her splitting the Jayapal proposal into two separate votes and we're arguing a subjective conclusion.

Did she actually help the viability of passing the complete M4A plan from the House by suggesting we split that into two steps? Or did she help reinforce the conclusion that the full plan is impossible to pass and therefore we should push for "what's possible" while shifting the full transition to a future legislative fight? We could debate that but I don't think there's a definitive answer here. Coming from the "we should fight for the full and compromise down" strategy, I think the latter. I know you think the former. We've gone back and forth on it before and wound up at exactly the same place.

Criticizing it as "distancing herself from Bernie" is weird and why we're saying Bernie people are upset she actually wants to be President and not just running to be Bernie's VP.

"Distancing herself from Bernie" isn't a criticism. It's just objectively what happened. By releasing a different plan, she distanced herself from Bernie and that was a strategy to win for sure. I'm not saying that's a bad thing per se, I'm saying it was a bad strategy. My evidence? Her polling numbers since. Pushing what could be perceived as a piecemeal approach to passing M4A hurt her. No way around that. (and just to rewind, that's where I started...Warren's advisors suck, she's great and should be doing better)

In another life we're having the discussion about which approach is better, but instead we're having the discussion of whether she betrayed Saint Bernard by having the audacity to have a different path to reach the same progressive goal.

Except we're not...at least I'm not. We started at "Warren's advisors suck, she attacked Bernie while Pete and Amy siphoned off her support." That's a commentary on her approach to political strategy. It's not an accusation of betrayal. This post sparked our back and forth...

Warren's got terrible advisors . She focused on Bernie when she shoulda focused on Pete then coupled herself with Klobuchar who was the one person that could peel off the "I'm ready for a female president" voters. She should be doing better, her strategy failed.

I've had this stance forever now. It's not the candidate, it's the team around her that cost her. It's not Bernie or Amy or Pete either...I mean it sort of is, but she could have stopped the bleeding. She picked the wrong path to slow the losses and regain momentum.

 

[jj23]

They lied about more than that, actually. Unions aren't just about healthcare. They're about managing bargaining power between workers and the owners of capital. The Culinary union wants business owners to have the freedom to keep your wages low by using your health insurance as leverage against you. When confronted with this, they released a pamphlet claiming that giving business owners this power actually strengthens your right to organize, bargain, and strike.

Why Nevada’s powerful Culinary Union has issues with Bernie Sanders
Why Would A Union Oppose Medicare For All? ❧ Current Affairs
Sanders Argues Medicare for All Is Vital for Union Workers: 'They're Losing Wage Increases Because Cost of Healthcare Is Soaring'

And this isn't getting into what they're currently doing, which is helping Warren and Klobuchar paint anyone organizing for M4A as an online harasser for criticizing these decisions.

Much appreciated. If this is true they deserve to get criticised.

 

[satam55]

 

[SunZoo]

Toxic Warren supporters turning their back on someone who fought so hard for them

 

[jj23]

The schools of thought from this are amazing.

There is the group of moderates whose time as the leaders of the party seems to have faded.
, and who are resisting the inevitable...

There are progressives who are coming to terms with how to wield their new found power.

Then there is the group who thinks you need someone like Trump to fight Trump, and are casting their lot with Bloomberg.

Interesting times.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

I hear you on this, I’m for M4A. When I’ve seen people in countries with universal healthcare speak on it always sounds like it go worst when private healthcare came into the picture as those companies needed to justify their services so somehow the public option took a hit. And with the power and lobbying of companies and industries in the US I’d definitely worry about a public option when the private option is available and we know how evil and greedy they are. We’re honestly between a rock and a hard place, I’d take M4A for the simple fact that everyone will be covered.

the health/pharma/insurance industry needs a lot of checks, so i feel your point on greed & how they've gamed washington, but i think overhauling the private sector while also birthing a public option (hell, tax private sector health to help fund the public sector), i think we could find some sort of balance.

 

[acri1]

man wtf happened to this thread? Look, bottom line there are some Dems I don't fukk with out here and I wouldn't vote for in the primary but bottom line I am voting for WHOEVER the dem is in November because I want Trump gone, period. I want the entire GOP gone. Period.

They are destroying this country worse than I could ever have imagined. I don't wanna see what 4 more years of this shyt looks like.

It's sad that some things that used to be viewed as bat shyt lunacy, and some people are trying to normalize it to make excuses for Trump.

This isn't normal. Some y'all need to stop being bytches and talkin bout "I'm gonna stay home " anyone who stays home is complicit.

Been trying tell these nikkas that now's not the time for "X or Bust" but people on the left are just allergic to strategic voting.

 

[the cac mamba]

has bernie posted an explanation of what happens to the hundreds of thousands of workers who work at health insurance companies?

just from a pure impact standpoint, i wouldnt piss on an insurance company if it was on fire. but they're gonna hammer him on that too

 

[No1]

Been trying tell these nikkas that now's not the time for "X or Bust" but people on the left are just allergic to strategic voting.

Telling people to vote for Bloomberg is telling them to just get pubked.. That’s not going to work. This nikka has a 48 percent approval rating among Dems.

 

[acri1]

Telling people to vote for Bloomberg is telling them to just get linked. That’s not going to work. This nikka has a 48 percent approval rating among Dems.

I'm not telling anybody to vote for Bloomberg in the primary, as far as I'm concerned he's Buttigeg level.

But if he somehow won then I can't advocate sitting out the general. Objectively I'd still rather him get a SC pick than Trump.

 

[Conan]

Anyone criticizing people who unionized and fought for what they believed in. They did it when no one else did it for them.

Now they are proud of what they have and don't want to give it away.

If your only counter argument is what happens when people lose jobs, there are plenty of solution that fill that void without abolishing private insurance.

I'm not attacking anyone for being in a union or fighting for healthcare. Unions have been responsible for a lot of worker rights in this country and that's why Republicans and moderate Democrats pay lip service while gutting the ability of unions to be effective (through "right to work" laws, prohibiting collective bargaining, etc). I consider myself pro-union, and any candidate which is less than enthused about union rights gets the from me.

That being said, I have three issues with the mindset of "we fought hard for this, don't take it away"

1. I don't see healthcare as chips on the table that can be exchanged for better wages and working conditions. That is the current state. I imagine that under a scenario where unions are allowed to keep negotiated insurance, it can be blocked if negotiations go sour (like what happened when GM workers went on strike). Employee contributions can spike if Vegas has a bad few years. Coverage can deteriorate. A lot of union members would rather have healthcare guaranteed, and bargain on other stuff without having to worry about getting dropped.

2. Private insurance for essential health care (not considering ass shots for example) creates a two tiered system, similar to what you get with private education. It siphons money and talent away from the majority to service the needs of the privileged. It would pool the disadvantaged towards the public option, making coverage more expensive.

3. It's just a greedy fukking vibe, let's be real. I got mine, so let's keep that to the detriment of those who aren't privileged to be union workers.

 

[duncanthetall]

 

[the kid]

I'm not telling anybody to vote for Bloomberg in the primary, as far as I'm concerned he's Buttigeg level.

But if he somehow won then I can't advocate sitting out the general. Objectively I'd still rather him get a SC pick than Trump.

I can say that Bloomberg might be the only one I seriously think about not voting for. He’s legit racist.

 

[tru_m.a.c]