2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[Dusty Bake Activate]

So let me get this straight. Liz will be destroyed on her plan to give every man, woman and child in America free, universal health care without raising taxes on the middle-class because although she draws the middle-class line at billionaires and said only they will be paying more, technically people with hundreds of millions of dollars fall into that grouping as well, so technically it's not solely billionaires that will be paying more...this is what qualifies as a "brazen lie" and is the line of attack the anti-Liz faction is going with?...

Please tell me who will be stepping up and defending these poor, poor top 1% of households that are non-billionaires. I would love to see that in a debate. Think I would die of laughter.

Disingenuous Idiot Senator/Mayor/ex-VP/President: "Senator, you've released a plan that would provide the most revolutionary social benefit to the entire country in generations, and you define the middle class as everyone but billionaires. But in your proposal you also go after the capital gains of people with hundreds of millions of dollars, so you lied bytch. Gotcha. "

Average Joe: "shyt, he's right. I loved this plan that would provide me and my loved ones with free healthcare, but multi-millionaires are people too, dammit! This capital gains tax on the 1% is a bridge too far."

Elizabeth Warren: "I have been destroyed by logic and reason. I am a fraud and a liar. I hereby drop out and promise to never be seen from or heard from again. I am sorry for daring to run for President, Bernie. Here are all my supporters."

The fact that you had the audacity to literally attempt to speak for “the average joe” going for this clusterfukk of a proposal proves that you should stick to making political assessments for Latveria or wherever you’re from.

Do you really think this professorial “I have a plan” shyt appeals to anyone that can considered an average joe? You really don’t know the American electorate at all. The “average joe” isn’t even gonna understand anything about this bill except that it has a lot of uncertainty and moving parts and is contingent on a number predictive assumptions which are dubious to false, just like the ACA which didn’t poll over 50% until years after implementation.

The more she tries to defend this she is gonna get killed by the left, right and center and keep looking like a deer in headlights. There is no political constituency in the country that this makes happy. The left maybe but they have a better alternative with the simplified more sensible Bernie approach. This is probably the worst mis-step of her campaign. I think Bernie gradually overtakes her on the strength of this.

 

[the kid]

So let me get this straight. Liz will be destroyed on her plan to give every man, woman and child in America free, universal health care without raising taxes on the middle-class because although she draws the middle-class line at billionaires and said only they will be paying more, technically people with hundreds of millions of dollars fall into that grouping as well, so technically it's not solely billionaires that will be paying more...this is what qualifies as a "brazen lie" and is the line of attack the anti-Liz faction is going with?...

Please tell me who will be stepping up and defending these poor, poor top 1% of households that are non-billionaires. I would love to see that in a debate. Think I would die of laughter.

Disingenuous Idiot Senator/Mayor/ex-VP/President: "Senator, you've released a plan that would provide the most revolutionary social benefit to the entire country in generations, and you define the middle class as everyone but billionaires. But in your proposal you also go after the capital gains of people with hundreds of millions of dollars, so you lied bytch. Gotcha. "

Average Joe: "shyt, he's right. I loved this plan that would provide me and my loved ones with free healthcare, but multi-millionaires are people too, dammit! This capital gains tax on the 1% is a bridge too far."

Elizabeth Warren: "I have been destroyed by logic and reason. I am a fraud and a liar. I hereby drop out and promise to never be seen from or heard from again. I am sorry for daring to run for President, Bernie. Here are all my supporters."

The pretzels people are getting themselves into to tear down this plan is amazing. I’m sure centrist Dems never thought anyone would put out a plan that addresses their concerns about M4A and #BernieBros were sure Liz would bail on M4A when the going got tough. Now everyone is dealing with a playing field they didn’t see coming and their old arguments don’t work. So everyone seems to be focused on implementation rather than the plan itself.

“Well this plan relies on x and that just won’t work.” This argument coming from Sanders supporters is unbelievable given when Sanders is asked how his M4A plan gets implemented....crickets then more yelling about “We are going to get it done.”

Then the “the math doesn’t work” coming from the Biden/Butti gang is ridiculous because their public option plans either don’t cover as many people as they claim or are way more expensive down the line due to their popularity/success. It’s amazing to say “everyone will be covered” and then conveniently leave out cost estimates for the potential that everyone actually wants to be covered.

Like, if you don’t like her plan, say you don’t like it because your plan is better and explain why it’s better. Not this bullish!t.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Was this supposed to be a gotcha? Bernie, AOC and other activists have successfully bodied the "how will you pay for it" question. You don't need to release precise details for it at this moment. But because Liz was so afraid of saying middle class taxes will go up, the racist Mayor and Amy successfully bullied her into releasing a payment plan that ties it to the passage of several other legislatives.

It was helped written by a former Obama guy who created some sleazy for profit healthcare group. It is designed to fail. Liz's plan will now be a main part of the November debate and she's gonna get bullied by Pete, Biden and Amy again

Instead of talking about people's suffering in the current health care system and building on the M4A momentum, we now have to talk about the wonk's genius white papers. People are rightfully pissed. She just released it two days ago and in the video above couldn't recite a simple fact about taxes. B-b-but she did the homework.

Oh and not one Liz stan has answered how come mental health care is not mentioned in her 1000 page medium blog she dropped two days ago. (Edit: after re-reading parts of it, I see it has now been added. wasn't there on day one. good development)

I'm also dead at the horseshoe theory stuff in here. Yeah we should support policy that's designed to fail because we're afraid of making a point that conservatives also might make. As people who claim to be on the left, you should know that "businesses will do just about anything to avoid compensating workers" is something that happens under capitalism, regardless of whether republicans use it to scare people or not.

The horseshoe theory stuff is one of the most asinine stretches I’ve read in this thread. Low quality posting at its finest.

 

[King Kreole]

The fact that you had the audacity to literally attempt to speak for “the average joe” going for this clusterfukk of a proposal proves that you should stick to making political assessments for Latveria or wherever you’re from.

Do you really think this professorial “I have a plan” shyt appeals to anyone that can considered an average joe? You really don’t know the American electorate at all. The “average joe” isn’t even gonna understand anything about this bill except that it has a lot of uncertainty and moving parts and is contingent on a number predictive assumptions which are dubious to false, just like the ACA which didn’t poll over 50% until years after implementation.

The more she tries to defend this she is gonna get killed by the left, right and center and keep looking like a deer in headlights. There is no political constituency in the country that this makes happy. The left maybe but they have a better alternative with the simplified more sensible Bernie approach. This is probably the worst mis-step of her campaign. I think Bernie gradually overtakes her on the strength of this.

So you're saying that the average joe is too stupid to understand the complex message of "I get free health care and won't see a tax hike to pay for it" while simultaneously being savvy enough to critically assess the plan's "contingent predictive assumptions"

oh ok

 

[King Kreole]

The pretzels people are getting themselves into to tear down this plan is amazing. I’m sure centrist Dems never thought anyone would put out a plan that addresses their concerns about M4A and #BernieBros were sure Liz would bail on M4A when the going got tough. Now everyone is dealing with a playing field they didn’t see coming and their old arguments don’t work. So everyone seems to be focused on implementation rather than the plan itself.

“Well this plan relies on x and that just won’t work.” This argument coming from Sanders supporters is unbelievable given when Sanders is asked how his M4A plan gets implemented....crickets then more yelling about “We are going to get it done.”

Then the “the math doesn’t work” coming from the Biden/Butti gang is ridiculous because their public option plans either don’t cover as many people as they claim or are way more expensive down the line due to their popularity/success. It’s amazing to say “everyone will be covered” and then conveniently leave out cost estimates for the potential that everyone actually wants to be covered.

Like, if you don’t like her plan, say you don’t like it because your plan is better and explain why it’s better. Not this bullish!t.

Right? Breh I've never seen anything like this before. I'm still in shock that a bunch of supposed leftists immediately turned into right-wing economic advocates over the past couple of days. It's utterly ridiculous. People really MAD AS HELL that Liz did her work here

Like, I'm not even saying anyone has to switch from Bernie to Liz now or that Liz is the leading healthcare advocate in this race now, but this episode and people's reactions have been really telling.

 

[Jhoon]

Right? Breh I've never seen anything like this before. I'm still in shock that a bunch of supposed leftists immediately turned into right-wing economic advocates over the past couple of days. It's utterly ridiculous. People really MAD AS HELL that Liz did her work here

Like, I'm not even saying anyone has to switch from Bernie to Liz now or that Liz is the leading healthcare advocate in this race now, but this episode and people's reactions have been really telling.

getting democrats to have a conservatism virus outbreak is easy. We know what Biden brings to the table. But we get to see how deep this Bernie lets keep the filibuster hole really goes.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

So you're saying that the average joe is too stupid to understand the complex message of "I get free health care and won't see a tax hike to pay for it" while simultaneously being savvy enough to critically assess the plan's "contingent predictive assumptions"

oh ok

No the average joe won’t believe it’ll work like she says, just like policy experts don’t.

She painted herself in a bad corner by refusing to say whether or not middle class taxes will go up and sounding dishonest.

Now it seems like she tried to come up with a way to do single payer without raising middle class taxes with a lot of dubious shyt that involves immigration reform, repurposing the IRS, penalizing companies that give their workers better insurance, has a regressive head tax and can be avoided by outsourcing/contracting, etc.

Whereas Bernie’s basic framework is simple and easy to understand: your taxes will go up but overall healthcare costs will go down

I think most people whether “average joes” or wonks don’t believe you can give people universal Medicare without raising taxes. The fact that Warren already has a problem with authenticity both in general and particularly on this issue won’t help. If you can do M4A without raising middle class taxes, why did she duck and dodge on it in multiple debates for so long if she really thought so?

You underestimate how much authenticity is paramount in elections. People want to know whether you really believe what you’re saying and you’re serious about getting it done. That is the biggest gulf between Bernie and Warren imo, and why he appeals to more independents and working class people than her. All this “I have a plan” messaging doesn’t resonate with anyone but affluent educated professionals.

Also I think the sloppy unprepared way she’s went about tackling healthcare, together with the uncertainties this plan assumes undercuts her biggest strength as a technocrat extraordinaire. I think Bernie will win the day on M4A but we’ll see.

 

[King Kreole]

 

[King Kreole]

No the average joe won’t believe it’ll work like she says, just like policy experts don’t.

She painted herself in a bad corner by refusing to say whether or not middle class taxes will go up and sounding dishonest.

Now it seems like she tried to come up with a way to do single payer without raising middle class taxes with a lot of dubious shyt that involves immigration reform, repurposing the IRS, penalizing companies that give their workers better insurance, has a regressive head tax and can be avoided by outsourcing/contracting, etc.

Whereas Bernie’s basic framework is simple and easy to understand: your taxes will go up but overall healthcare costs will go down

I think most people whether “average joes” or wonks don’t believe you can give people universal Medicare without raising taxes. The fact that Warren already has a problem with authenticity both in general and particularly on this issue won’t help. If you can do M4A without raising middle class taxes, why did she duck and dodge on it in multiple debates for so long if she really thought so?

You underestimate how much authenticity is paramount in elections. People want to know whether you really believe what you’re saying and you’re serious about getting it done. That is the biggest gulf between Bernie and Warren imo, and why he appeals to more independents and working class people than her. All this “I have a plan” messaging doesn’t resonate with anyone by affluent educated professionals.

Also I think the sloppy unprepared way she’s went about tackling healthcare, together with the uncertainties this plan assumes undercuts her biggest strength as a technocrat extraordinaire. I think Bernie will win the day on M4A but we’ll see.

aight i guess we'll just have to wait and see then

 

[Atlrocafella]

Bernie doing a lot of Juelzing right now

 

[saturn7]

The chick who works for Kamala

 

[the next guy]

 

[the next guy]

double

 

[CBSkyline]

Polls from the top orgs confirming what we already knew. This is a 3 horse race, with Pete being fool's gold, and everybody else being irrelevant

 

[FAH1223]