2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

King Kreole

King Kreole

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storyteller said:
That's all well and good, but when WaPo even reports the context of the events reflecting exactly what Bernie said, I think that's pretty telling. WaPo rarely misses out on a chance to attack him.



This is completely different context (and Warren hasn't provided any context whatsoever). This reflects what Bernie said in his own statement, that he told Warren Trump is a sexist and misogynist. It also makes sense that in discussing a face off with Trump, the fact that Trump would sexism would come up.

Hey, yall can try to ride this to a dub if you want. I'm gonna go with Bernie being the exact same person he's always been. One who had no problem encouraging Warren to run in 2015 and Tulsi to run in 2019 prior to the 2016 and 2020 elections. Maybe this gets Warren her win, I doubt it does anything but helps Biden. :yeshrug:
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It's a slightly different context that could lend itself to a misunderstanding. I agree with Bernie being the exact same person he's always been, someone highly critical of "identity politics" who tends to speak in unnuanced and anti-intersectional ways. But I agree, going by Warren's statement, what Bernie said was more direct than vaguely musing about how Trump could use nefarious tactics. I personally think the truth lies in between Warren's assessment of the conversation and Bernie's assessment of the conversation, but I don't think either are lying about how they took what was said.
 
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storyteller

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King Kreole said:
It's a slightly different context that could lend itself to a misunderstanding. I agree with Bernie being the exact same person he's always been, someone highly critical of "identity politics" who tends to speak in unnuanced and anti-intersectional ways. But I agree, going by Warren's statement, what Bernie said was more direct than vaguely musing about how Trump could use nefarious tactics. I personally think the truth lies in between Warren's assessment of the conversation and Bernie's assessment of the conversation, but I don't think either are lying about how they took what was said.
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Bernie's critique of identity politics, while delivered in an unpolished manner has always been simple "the substance of your actions and principles is more important than your race, gender or sex." He doesn't always deliver that well, but his actions have always reflected that. I think Warren's playing the game. Howie Klein is someone that I've found reliable (first one I saw report that impeachment was gonna actually make it through and he beat everyone else by almost 24 hours for example); Klein says the Warren campaign gave this story to CNN. He's completely flipped from defending her and pushing her as someone who should join forces with Bernie to dropping that stance entirely. This is no different than how she played that volunteer message. An attempt to regain steam before time runs out but one that I think is misguided and poised to backfire.

edit: put it this way, I'll be curious to see if this impacts the pre and post debate fundraising for each candidate.
 
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storyteller said:
Nah, you should look at everything in contextual manner. I rock with some journalists for the NYT and completely ignore others (Jennifer Rubin) because of obvious biases. I realize this is pretty deep stuff and you've been blowing a gasket all morning. Have a cup of coffee and relax a bit brethren, your blood pressure could use a break. :mjlol:
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Chamomile tea may be better than coffee right now for him
 
Th3G3ntleman

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storyteller said:
Nah, you should look at everything in contextual manner. I rock with some journalists for the NYT and completely ignore others (Jennifer Rubin) because of obvious biases. I realize this is pretty deep stuff and you've been blowing a gasket all morning. Have a cup of coffee and relax a bit brethren, your blood pressure could use a break. :mjlol:
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Oh so now context matters. When we start movements calling the entire media "the msm" or "corporate media" context of the individual stories and individuals reporting those stories context don't matter it's just corporate media. When we label the media has having a bias against Bernie and we make all encompassing charges like there is a Bernie blackout context doesn't matter we can just decide that the entire media apparatus has something against Bernie providing no evidence outside of bullshyt anecdotal slights that "we" perceive to be occurring.

Now it's all about context though right
 
King Kreole

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storyteller said:
Bernie's critique of identity politics, while delivered in an unpolished manner has always been simple "the substance of your actions and principles is more important than your race, gender or sex." He doesn't always deliver that well, but his actions have always reflected that. I think Warren's playing the game. Howie Klein is someone that I've found reliable (first one I saw report that impeachment was gonna actually make it through and he beat everyone else by almost 24 hours for example); Klein says the Warren campaign gave this story to CNN. He's completely flipped from defending her and pushing her as someone who should join forces with Bernie to dropping that stance entirely. This is no different than how she played that volunteer message. An attempt to regain steam before time runs out but one that I think is misguided and poised to backfire.

edit: put it this way, I'll be curious to see if this impacts the pre and post debate fundraising for each candidate.
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Yeah, and I think it's that unpolished manner that created the context for Warren's claim here. She's never claimed that he's some raging misogynist or a bad guy.

I could easily see the conversation going like:

Warren: I'm going to run against Trump and I think I'll be a strong candidate because I'll take Hillary's strong point of activating women voters but couple it with a strong, progressive economic message unlike her. What do you think?

Bernie: I think we need a strong, populist, progressive economic message, but Hillary running the woman card probably hurt her more than it helped her. As this past election just proved, America doesn't like women in leadership, so is America ready to vote for a woman running against Trump, who will weaponize misogyny? :francis: I don't think so. I don't think that's our strongest bet.

Whether the Warren campaign is behind the leaking of this story is a different issue, and one I'm increasingly believing doesn't make sense. She was regaining some steam in the polls, not sinking. Her strategy was to play it slow and steady and be everyone's second choice. The momentum was on her side, and she knows that women almost never come out ahead in these types of "he said-she said" fights, especially against someone with as active a fanbase as Bernie Sanders. A fanbase she's trying to appeal to as the unity candidate. Dropping one of the biggest attacks in the primary against the guy with the most aggressive fanbase, a guy she had the most personal affection for, makes no strategic sense for her at this moment. If anything, she would have done it back when she was underwater due to her M4A debacle. This is politics so it's obviously possible that her camp was the one behind this, but it would be political malpractice with how reckless a move this was. And this is a campaign that plays it pretty safe. I don't know. :yeshrug:
 
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