wilt wasnt getting assists like joker
31-21-22
- Thread starter Morethan1
- Start date
Flex Grossman
Funky
You’re the one saying it’s the media trying to give it to him every year. I think Embiid deserved it the year he won it too. Only because Jokic shut it down the last month and a half to be fresh for playoffs and embiid went all out for it at the expense of a playoff run, but still.
And I wouldn’t have a problem with Shai winning it this year. Shai has had more talent to work with each of the last 2 years but this year he’s actually gonna get more wins than Jokic out of it.
UpAndComing
Veteran
That's contradictory. Seems like you're interested in a disingenuous conversation. It's a pity, because I don't hate Jokic, but I see a pattern here
I'm pretty sure jokic could drop 60 if he wanted too but he's so damn unselfish
This is not true. The third leading scorer/player on OKC has played 18 games this season.
Aaron Wiggins has scored the third most points on their team. A good chunk of this season has seen them starting Lu Dort and Cason Wallace.
OKC has no business being as dominant as they have been.
It wouldn't be a travesty if Jokic won MVP again because he's the best player in the league and an all-time great but SGA 100% deserves it this season.
Unbothered
ELEVATING to HIGHER LEVELS with POSITIVE VIBES ✨
Yeah, the problem I and many others are starting to have is that the media and a large portion of NBA fans keep trying to award and deem Jokic the MVP every season as long as he's breathing.
Although it's not his fault, I feel like his greatness has unintentionally weakened the MVP reward because, as you said, what was once the unwritten criteria (voter fatigue, better storyline, best record) no longer counts when it comes to Jokic.
Simply being the best player in the league never guaranteed an MVP, but with Jokic, that standard no longer exists.
The man could be a 7th or 8th seed and possibly still win the MVP over a player who is having a great season leading their team to a top 2 record, there's no way he should have more MVPs than Kareem, Russell, Jordan, Wilt, and LeBron by the time his career is over because all those names have much bigger legacies and accomplishments but it's starting to seem likely that he may surpass Bill Russell and Michael Jordan in that category before he even wins, let alone if he ever reaches that stage again, his 2nd and 3rd championship.
I also believe the media awarding him all these MVPs is their way of helping him make up for the lack of championships he'll likely never win since the Nugget's future, long-term wise, doesn't look as bright as other teams in the West has gotten better and primed to be in contention for many years.
Last edited:
MooseMouthMthafuga
Veteran
He has that 80's plumber athleticism, to.
This is patently ridiculous.
He's only ever been the favorite to win MVP once coming into a season. There's been no precedent set for trying to force the MVP to him. He's a Euro (who this country doesn't identify with; he's barely in the top-10 for jersey sales) who plays on a small market team. Everything he's earned has been organic. He literally had no hype coming into the league.
He's been the best regular season performer over the last half a decade and has been rewarded in turn for his efforts.
When was he ever been guarenteed the MVP?
He's currently having the best regular season a big man has had in modern history and he still likely won't win MVP, and you're telling me this imaginary standard no longer exists?
Another patently ridiculous point.
The Nuggets are essentially tied for the 2nd best record in the West, so bringing up them being a 7th or 8th seed is nonsensical. Why are you using straw man arguments against his MVP credentials when his team has a 65% winning percentage, which is more than good enough to be in the MVP conversation?
You're just full of these dumbass talking points aren't you?
Jokic isn't competing with Cap, Bill, Wilt, MJ and Bron etc or any of the competition that they faced. He's only competing with the competition as it exists in the now, so what sense is there in trying to penalize him as if he's going up against all-time greats? If someone is good enough to win MVP during a particular season in relation to their competition, that's all that matters.
Log off.
he just lost an MVP to Embiid and SGA is a heavy favorite to win this season. What are you talking about?
Now that Jokic won a title, the new narrative is he’ll “likely never win again”
It’s really amazing how warped people get when talking about Jokic. The entire position of your argument is that the media hands MVPs unfairly to Jokic but for the 2nd time in 3 years we’re about to see another player win the MVP while he continues to produce historic seasons, while his team wins games and this is after he’s certified himself with a ring. It quite literally invalidates your entire argument.
Jokic about to put up 29, 13 & 11 (with unheard of efficiency) on the 2 seed in a super competitive conference and NOT win MVP, but I’m supposed to believe that he’s unfairly being given the award
Last edited:
Unbothered
ELEVATING to HIGHER LEVELS with POSITIVE VIBES ✨
This is patently ridiculous.
He's only ever been the favorite to win MVP once coming into a season. There's been no precedent set for trying to force the MVP to him. He's a Euro (who this country doesn't identify with; he's barely in the top-10 for jersey sales) who plays on a small market team. Everything he's earned has been organic. He literally had no hype coming into the league.
He's been the best regular season performer over the last half a decade and has been rewarded in turn for his efforts.
When was he ever been guarenteed the MVP?
He's currently having the best regular season a big man has had in modern history and he still likely won't win MVP, and you're telling me this imaginary standard no longer exists?
Another patently ridiculous point.
The Nuggets are essentially tied for the 2nd best record in the West, so bringing up them being a 7th or 8th seed is nonsensical. Why are you using straw man arguments against his MVP credentials when his team has a 65% winning percentage, which is more than good enough to be in the MVP conversation?
You're just full of these dumbass talking points aren't you?
Jokic isn't competing with Cap, Bill, Wilt, MJ and Bron etc or any of the competition that they faced. He's only competing with the competition as it exists in the now, so what sense is there in trying to penalize him as if he's going up against all-time greats? If someone is good enough to win MVP during a particular season in relation to their competition, that's all that matters.
Log off.
Neither one of you clearly don't pay attention to NBA discord around the world, every season the perception has been that if he doesn't win MVP he's been “robbed”. The year Embiid won, the notion was that he was robbed, and people still push that narrative, and if SGA by miracle (since it's not a given he'll win MVP) wins this year, it'll be the same talk among NBA discussion that he was “robbed due to voter fatigue” and that narrative has already begun by people saying the only thing SGA has over Jokic is a better team record and PPG.he just lost an MVP to Embiid and SGA is a heavy favorite to win this season. What are you talking about?
Now that Jokic won a title, the new narrative is he’ll “likely never win again”
It’s really amazing how warped people get when talking about Jokic. The entire position of your argument is that the media hands MVPs unfairly to Jokic but for the 2nd time in 3 years we’re about to see another player win the MVP while he continues to produce historic seasons, while his team wins games and this is after he’s certified himself with a ring. It quite literally invalidates your entire argument.
Bringing up Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Jordan, and Bron does matter because these players are considered among the greatest of all time and their accolades (MVPs, championships, statistical records, etc) define their ranking. There's a reason why players from numerous decades rank among each other and not by era. Jokic having all these MVPs would mislead many to make the assertion that he's among the top 3-5 of all-time, despite having only 1 championship which is ridiculous.
Now we trying to act like MVPs don't play a role in all-time rankings? Jokic may end his career as a one-time champion, yet will be ranked higher than previous players who've accomplished more in their careers, he should not exceed LeBron, Jordan, Russell, Wilt, and Kareem in MVPs with nowhere near the accolades as them. Now y'all tryna water down the MVP by saying “who cares if he passes them in MVP trophies, let him win em all, it doesn't matter”. It does matter when people decades from now will revisit and revisionist tales about who's the greatest of all time starts taking over.
There's already been people seriously making clams that Jokic is the second best player of all-time and some have even tried to argue he's better than Jordan, at least offensively. Y'all don't pay attention to NBA discussion online the way I do.
Last edited:
NormanConnors
Detroit/MSU Spartan Life
How many blocks did he have
Unbothered
ELEVATING to HIGHER LEVELS with POSITIVE VIBES ✨
@Gil Scott-Heroin @Brozay
Personally, if I were asked to rank Jokic, I could only rank him in regards to the center position, which for him would be in the 6-15 range of all-time centers, he loses some spots because of his weak defense.
I can't rank him on the positionless all-time list because of his lack of accolades (championships, longevity, stats, etc), he doesn't have enough to be ranked that high and as stated above he's average on the defensive side of the ball. If I had to rank on the positionless scale he'd be somewhere in the 20-35 range.
Anything higher than that would be absurd.
Personally, if I were asked to rank Jokic, I could only rank him in regards to the center position, which for him would be in the 6-15 range of all-time centers, he loses some spots because of his weak defense.
I can't rank him on the positionless all-time list because of his lack of accolades (championships, longevity, stats, etc), he doesn't have enough to be ranked that high and as stated above he's average on the defensive side of the ball. If I had to rank on the positionless scale he'd be somewhere in the 20-35 range.
Anything higher than that would be absurd.
fans don’t award the MVPs. Im not super interested in the NBA discord around the internet, I could find just as many narratives around the NBA social media landscape that disparage Jokic. I’m replying directly to your words about Jokic winning MVPs and the voters that decide it. How do you explain Embiid winning two years ago and SGA likely winning this year? It completely dispels that narrative. If they were unfairly handing him MVPs, why wouldn’t he win this season? or the Embiid MVP season?
you also continue to include Wilt as a barometer, should I remind you he only has one ring and he had a teammate ahead of him in the MVP voting that year?
Jokic's 3 MVPs during this 5 year run of dominance (where he did lead his team to a finals win) are fitting IMO. He’s been historically good and sorry to burst your bubble, he’s gonna be properly rated as an all time great when his career is finished.
I really was naive to think his ring would put some of these narratives to bed, yet here we are, in the midst of an absolute historic season he’s producing, where he likely won’t win the MVP, having to explain his accolades. Honestly, it’s ridiculous. SGA will win this season, and he’ll be deserving, maybe it will end this narrative that Jokic has some bias for winning the award, but it probably won’t, and somehow we’ll be here again next season when he produces another historically good year.