A QUESTION FOR THE OLD HEADS.....DID ILLMATIC REALLY HAVE AS MUCH OF AN IMPACT AS PEOPLE SAY.....

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Outkast was at least gold think they went plat though...

illmatic was drywall status. point is nikkaz was going to the store to get albums. illmatic was in the store when they went to get albums. and they didnt get illmatic.

For whatever it's worth I bought two copies.

And again, sales != impact... when Nas came through a lot of clones were born. Only album from that era I would say had a bigger impact was OB4CL... Rae made Nas, Jay, Biggie and a whole bunch of other nikkas completely switch their style up. And that album also "went plywood" But Illmatic def had a wave.

No one is saying it didn't have an Impact. It is the extent of the impact which is being questioned, seeing as there is a huge deal of revisionism with regards to how big its impact was. There were are a shytload of albums with a bigger impact between 1993 and 1996, especially for an album that is (rightly) one of the greatest albums of all time.

I mean, the fact that it is one of the greatest albums of all time kind of speaks to its impact, don't you think?

 

[Wacky D]

Yes, go look up Resurrection by Twista in 94 and see how far ahead he was than naS in 94...

@essdot literally nobody was checkin for illmatic outside of a 3 block radius in NY. That is why is took 7 years to go plat, even with heavy propaganda from EC based magazines. shyt just wasnt poppin AT ALL. You came to the logical conclusion in your OP. There was literally nothing advanced about it if you listen to other rappers of the time, and they sold MUCH better. Look at LL at that time, Naughty By Nature, Pac, Cube, Redman, the nikkaz that @bigbadbossup2012 listed.... even Kris Kross had a bigger influence considering they birthed Da Brat who was also bigger than naS at that time.

half of these rappers didn't even drop in '94, and they were all established names by this point.

btw, ll cool j was coming off of his least-successful album pre-2000s.

A LOT OF RAPPERS WERE GOING PLAT IN THAT ERA... ask @mobbinfms

only illmatic didnt... and since you mention it... Nelly did have a bigger impact than illmatic, its not even debatable.

but how many rappers didn't go platinum? how many didn't even go gold?

you look on paper and see a lot of plat certs, but that chit only accounted for like 25% of the game. theres a reason why going platinum was a cause for celebration. if everybody was going plat, then it wouldve been nothing to brag about.

nelly had a bigger impact than nas by far. country grammar having a bigger impact than illmatic in the rap world tho? I don't know about that one. and im like the biggest nelly supporter on here it seems. and I don't like nas. lost respect for him a decade ago.

I love Nas, but he benefits from incredible double standards on the Coli (and sohh before that). The excuses kill me, why would bootlegging be a factor for him and not the other artists in the same Era?

I wont even touch on albums from the west like doggystyle or regulate...g funk era who's impact blew illmatic's out of the water. Lets just take a look at Rappers from the tri state area that released an album in that same time period (1993-1996).

Wu tang, 36 chambers went gold in 4 months in March 1994 (from Nov 1993)
Biggie, Ready to die took 2 months to go gold in Nov 1994 (from Sept 1994)
Redman, Dare iz a darkside went gold in under two months in Jan 1995 (from Nov 1994)
ODB, Return to the 36 chambers went gold in 3 months in June 1995 (from March 1995)
Mob deep, The infamous went gold in 2 months in June 1995 (from April 1995)
Raekwon, OB4CL went gold in 2 months in October 1995 (from August 1995)
Jay Z, Reasonable doubt went Gold in 3 months in Sept 1996 (from June 1996)
Mob deep, Hell on earth went gold in 5 months in April 1997 (from November 1996)
IWW, by Nas himself, released in Sept 1996 went gold under a month

Now we have Illmatic, going gold in 21 months in Jan 1996 (from April 1994)! But no, its because it was bootlegged, otherwise would have gone platinum in a month

The most hilarious one is Jay-Z's RD, who I must have seen about 20 threads (from sohh and on here) about its revisionism in terms of its impact, I wonder what that makes Illmatic that took almost 2 years to go gold.

who are you arguing against with this tho? nobody claimed that illmatic had doggystyle or regulate type impact.

and why are you comparing it to albums that came out 3 school-years later?
also, all these albums that youre mentioning were either on the radio or were from artists who were previously established(redman/3rd mobb deep tape)

 

[Rem]

For whatever it's worth I bought two copies.

And again, sales != impact... when Nas came through a lot of clones were born. Only album from that era I would say had a bigger impact was OB4CL... Rae made Nas, Jay, Biggie and a whole bunch of other nikkas completely switch their style up. And that album also "went plywood" But Illmatic def had a wave.


I mean, the fact that it is one of the greatest albums of all time kind of speaks to its impact, don't you think?

Personally, I don't really care for how impactful an album is as far as deeming an album a classic. More importantly is how the album is viewed years down the line, classic is a test of quality over time.

Illmatic is an excellent example of an album that withstood the test of time that didn't necessarily have a huge impact when it was released. On the other side of the spectrum is GRODT, an album with incredible impact that many wouldn't deem as an all time great album.

The fact that it wasn't as impactful as doggystyle when it was released means nothing to me. It's still considerably better than doggystyle. The revisionism of its impact at the time of its release just doesn't really sit well with me, that's all I was trying to say.

 

[Wacky D]

the impact for illmatic was there. it didn't have the goat impact, but it was definitely one of the 5 or 10 most impactful joints to drop that year.

if you base your views on things such as sales, then you could never understand. especially back then, when fans didn't care about sales at all.

also, contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of the rap game wasn't seeing no plaques.

the era fakket... the era... Naughty went plat in 93, LL went plat around that same time. Red was going gold in mere months. Bone went plat in that time frame. Pac was gold. illmatic was plywood. Da Brat and Kris Kross was plat...

'93 and '94 were literally worlds apart.

haha @ plywood.

 

[Budda]

Personally, I don't really care for how impactful an album is as far as deeming an album a classic. More importantly is how the album is viewed years down the line, classic is a test of quality over time.

Illmatic is an excellent example of an album that withstood the test of time that didn't necessarily have a huge impact when it was released. On the other side of the spectrum is GRODT, an album with incredible impact that many wouldn't deem as an all time great album.

The fact that it wasn't as impactful as doggystyle when it was released means nothing to me. It's still considerably better than doggystyle. The revisionism of its impact at the time of its release just doesn't really sit well with me, that's all I was trying to say.

It had a big impact where it mattered. The culture back then isn't how it is now, it was more driven by 'hip hop heads' anyways, thats why you had the likes of Wu Tang at the forefront of rap. It didn't have GRODT impact in terms of sales, but in terms of its influence to other NY rappers(in 94/95), it certainly had a bigger one.

 

[Rem]

who are you arguing against with this tho? nobody claimed that illmatic had doggystyle or regulate type impact.

and why are you comparing it to albums that came out 3 school-years later?
also, all these albums that youre mentioning were either on the radio or were from artists who were previously established(redman/3rd mobb deep tape)

Why did I chose those albums? Because:
1 They are the major albums that were released in the east coast while the west were dominating.
2 They were albums that catered to (buy and large) the same fanbase (Tri state area).
3 The music market didn't really change between 1993-1996, so its an apt comparison, especially considering these albums were catering to the same demographic.

As for the bit in bold, so what? Nas was already well known since his appearance on Live at the BBQ in 1991. Half time was released in 1992 as soundtrack to a major spike lee film. Nas' debut album was one of the most aniticipated from any east coast nikka in that time period, save for BIG. This nikka had all the hottest producers in the game lace him up for this album. He even had a documentary on the making of the album.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Personally, I don't really care for how impactful an album is as far as deeming an album a classic. More importantly is how the album is viewed years down the line, classic is a test of quality over time.

Illmatic is an excellent example of an album that withstood the test of time that didn't necessarily have a huge impact when it was released. On the other side of the spectrum is GRODT, an album with incredible impact that many wouldn't deem as an all time great album.

The fact that it wasn't as impactful as doggystyle when it was released means nothing to me. It's still considerably better than doggystyle. The revisionism of its impact at the time of its release just doesn't really sit well with me, that's all I was trying to say.

I mean, I was in NYC in 94 so maybe my POV is biased but when Nas came out it was a big fukkin deal there.

I dont think anyone would claim Nas was getting love in Texas back in 94 but Illmatic was a big disc. I def dont care personally what people here think but it's def good to get history right.

 

[mr.africa]

half of these rappers didn't even drop in '94, and they were all established names by this point.

btw, ll cool j was coming off of his least-successful album pre-2000s.



but how many rappers didn't go platinum? how many didn't even go gold?

you look on paper and see a lot of plat certs, but that chit only accounted for like 25% of the game. theres a reason why going platinum was a cause for celebration. if everybody was going plat, then it wouldve been nothing to brag about.

nelly had a bigger impact than nas by far. country grammar having a bigger impact than illmatic in the rap world tho? I don't know about that one. and im like the biggest nelly supporter on here it seems. and I don't like nas. lost respect for him a decade ago.



who are you arguing against with this tho? nobody claimed that illmatic had doggystyle or regulate type impact.

and why are you comparing it to albums that came out 3 school-years later?
also, all these albums that youre mentioning were either on the radio or were from artists who were previously established(redman/3rd mobb deep tape)

the original poster asked about the bootlegging, so i gave him the story i heard about there being a garage full of bootleg illmatics. shyt was bootlegged but it still shone through because of its immense quality. your example nelly had bigger impact at the time of his album releases, but honestly are you still hearing anyone mention nelly. illmatic withstood the test of time and thus was more impactful.at his peak he was not even considered among the greats. it gave nelly a few hits that get played from time to time in a club. meanwhile, critics and peers are still in awe of illmatic. of all the rappers you could have chosen, you choose nelly?!?

 

[Bugsmoran]

it looks like youre talking commercial impact.

nas & black moon are the type of artists where everybody had they chit, but it was usually either a dub or a bootleg. that doesn't take away from their albums' popularity & impact

I'm talkin impact period...

illmatic did not have a big impact when it dropped

Everybody didn't have Blackmoon and Nas chit lol

My question for u is how do u define impact and how do u define influence?

 

[Lil Bape the PostGod]

it took this nikka 7 years to sell what weezy f. did in a week...in an era where nobody buys cds

ymcmb

 

[OnlyInCalifornia]

Out in California? Not so much. There was more popular, local acts at the time that got more shine. Deep Cover came out right before Nas album did and then The Chronic followed up a few months after it was released.

Didn't have the fancy internet at the time and long distance calls were still a ton of money per minute so it isn't like it was that easy to hear about music 3,000 miles away unless it had a music video.

 

[Wacky D]

Why did I chose those albums? Because:
1 They are the major albums that were released in the east coast while the west were dominating.
2 They were albums that catered to (buy and large) the same fanbase (Tri state area).
3 The music market didn't really change between 1993-1996, so its an apt comparison, especially considering these albums were catering to the same demographic.

As for the bit in bold, so what? Nas was already well known since his appearance on Live at the BBQ in 1991. Half time was released in 1992 as soundtrack to a major spike lee film. Nas' debut album was one of the most aniticipated from any east coast nikka in that time period, save for BIG. This nikka had all the hottest producers in the game lace him up for this album. He even had a documentary on the making of the album.

I hear you but cmon dog. youre comparing "live at the bbq" and "halftime" to redman having an actual career in '91-92?? plus, redman's 2nd album wasn't getting the love nas was getting in '94.

mobb deep had "shook ones". how about acknowledging mobb deep when "juvenile hell" was out? because that's what was out when illmatic dropped.

the original poster asked about the bootlegging, so i gave him the story i heard about there being a garage full of bootleg illmatics. shyt was bootlegged but it still shone through because of its immense quality. your example nelly had bigger impact at the time of his album releases, but honestly are you still hearing anyone mention nelly. illmatic withstood the test of time and thus was more impactful.at his peak he was not even considered among the greats. it gave nelly a few hits that get played from time to time in a club. meanwhile, critics and peers are still in awe of illmatic. of all the rappers you could have chosen, you choose nelly?!?

I'm talkin impact period...

illmatic did not have a big impact when it dropped

Everybody didn't have Blackmoon and Nas chit lol

My question for u is how do u define impact and how do u define influence?

I think you should re-read the conversation.

why are you arguing with me? we're on the same team buddy.

and I didn't bring nelly up. I was responding to somebody who said that country grammar had more impact than illmatic. and I disagree.

I did say that nelly as an artist had more impact than nas did in '94. and judging from your post, it looks like you would agree with that.

it took this nikka 7 years to sell what weezy f. did in a week...in an era where nobody buys cds

ymcmb

this is also an era where nobody is dropping albums. so when somebody does, all the focus is on them. its easy to win when you have no competition.

when illmatic dropped, there was a chitload of competition. a lot of legendary stuff at that. and a lot of artists that had more exposure.

also, and again. the idea that lots of people were selling like that is a myth.

I'm talkin impact period...

illmatic did not have a big impact when it dropped

Everybody didn't have Blackmoon and Nas chit lol

My question for u is how do u define impact and how do u define influence?

I don't base impact & influence solely on numbers, if that's what youre asking.
and again, im not saying that nas and black moon had warren g & bone thug impact but they darn sure weren't comparable to mos def(no disrespect).

 

[Bugsmoran]

@Wacky D the same group of heads that copped Black on both sides copped Illmatic

But Nas fanbase grew over the years from the hit he had with Lauryn Hill, working with Dr Dre, 2 pac calling him out on one of the biggest hiphop albums,

and ethering Jay z

 

[Wacky D]

@Wacky D the same group of heads that copped Black on both sides copped Illmatic

But Nas fanbase grew over the years from the hit he had with Lauryn Hill, working with Dr Dre, 2 pac calling him out on one of the biggest hiphop albums,

and ethering Jay z

yes, but there were other groups that were coppin illmatic & enta da stage as well. that's the difference between them & mos def.

nas & black moon had the streets in a frenzy. the only streets that was behind mos def were what was left of the dying breed of black backpackers.

 

[Poetical Poltergeist]

Another illmatic thread?