Alchemist Top 5 DOA Producer

[TheDarceKnight]

Always liked this song. Thought a good portion of his best beats were wasted on trash artists. Think that weighs a lot in this argument. He doesn't crack my top 15.

FWIW a lot of the best producers ever have worked with trash or at least very average or mediocre artists. From what experience I've had around some producers, many just want to work with people that they either get along with, or they find certain things about them interesting. They like how a certain rapper can ride the beat, or they like the way their voice sounds, or the artist is open to experimenting with different sounds, and the producer can use that artist to try some creative things of their own.

I've always been amazed how at little most producers care about lyrics or content, or things like that, when they pick who they want to work with.

In terms of full albums, or mostly produced albums...

Premier had his Group Homes, Blaq Poets, NYGz', Nick Javas', etc. Pete Rock has INI.

Dilla has Frank-n-Danks, Phat Kats, etc.

Even Kanye West had GLC, Consequence, and Really Doe. Dr. Dre had cats like Hittman, Bishop Lamont, and a gang of others.

Madlib has Strong Arm Steady, MED, and Guilty Simpson, and the goofy fukking white dude that's the lead singer for Future Islands. Example below. Guarantee Madlib did that because he finds it "interesting" and not because that dude is a next level rapper.

Spoiler

Alchemist has Domo Genesis, Boldy James, Willie the Kid, etc.

One of 9th Wonder's best produced albums is with Ness from Making the Band. And Murs is cool but is he really an "elite" rhymer? He's got 5 or 6 full albums with 9th.

Memphis Bleek got a lot of Just Blaze's best material.

It's nothing new for elite producers to work with average emcees.

 

[DrHackenbush]

Who cares if a rhyme is ghostwritten it doesn't make a verse any better or worse. It's easy to say something was easy after it's been done.

Dunno how you are comparing someone finding an obscure record and looping it with someone else writing your rhymes

 

[Demon]

Well that was a whole bunch of nothing. Thought we were going to have an actual discussion, my bad. Troll along now

you cant argue hip hop with a canadian fakkit who thought biggie sampled ashanti and whos first idol was missy elliot

any hip hpp opinion he has is equivalent to a nikka in a wheel chair trying to tell you how to walk

 

[Mr.Logic]

Dunno how you are comparing someone finding an obscure record and looping it with someone else writing your rhymes

Because the main debate is "who is making it hot?" Is a producer who loops a sample really making that song hot?

I say NO...

 

[Demon]

I responded to every detail of your post. I've actually said more on the subject than you have. Are you mad or something? Trying to find a way to exit the convo quickly?

arent you a canadian fakkit who makes shytty movies and thought biggie sampled ashanti???

dont you have a gap between your teeth so big you can drive a fukking mac truck through it???


kinda funny hes in an alchemist thread, considering the canadian fakkit never even heard of mobb deep until well after alchemist was giving them beats

 

[Turbulent]

Who cares if they are looped/chopped etc it doesnt make a beat any better or worse. Its easy to say something was easy after its been done. I agree Havoc is a better producer though.

Ice cream is just a sped up loop also, its not technically a great beat

one thing about looping. i think there needs to be a distinction between looping a straight melody (think G Thing) and then looping "out of context" of the original sound. Gangstarr - Mass Appeal: the main groove is a slowed down loop. but when you listen to the original, it's not in the same context at all.

Ice Scream is actually a GREAT example of an out of context loop.



at 0:37

 

[DillaTUDE]

Because the main debate is "who is making it hot?" Is a producer who loops a sample really making that song hot?

I say NO...

Since you don't respect Alc, which producers craft do you actually hold in high regard?

 

[Turbulent]

FWIW a lot of the best producers ever have worked with trash or at least very average or mediocre artists. From what experience I've had around some producers, many just want to work with people that they either get along with, or they find certain things about them interesting. They like how a certain rapper can ride the beat, or they like the way their voice sounds, or the artist is open to experimenting with different sounds, and the producer can use that artist to try some creative things of their own.

I've always been amazed how at little most producers care about lyrics or content, or things like that, when they pick who they want to work with.

In terms of full albums, or mostly produced albums...

Premier had his Group Homes, Blaq Poets, NYGz', Nick Javas', etc. Pete Rock has INI.

Dilla has Frank-n-Danks, Phat Kats, etc.

Even Kanye West had GLC, Consequence, and Really Doe. Dr. Dre had cats like Hittman, Bishop Lamont, and a gang of others.

Madlib has Strong Arm Steady, MED, and Guilty Simpson, and the goofy fukking white dude that's the lead singer for Future Islands. Example below. Guarantee Madlib did that because he finds it "interesting" and not because that dude is a next level rapper.

Spoiler

Alchemist has Domo Genesis, Boldy James, Willie the Kid, etc.

One of 9th Wonder's best produced albums is with Ness from Making the Band. And Murs is cool but is he really an "elite" rhymer? He's got 5 or 6 full albums with 9th.

Memphis Bleek got a lot of Just Blaze's best material.

It's nothing new for elite producers to work with average emcees.

but the main difference is that all those other producers have also been associated with certified Hip Hop classics as well while in their prime.

as much as i'm a fan of ALC's sound, that's the one element missing for me to put him on that echelon of producers. Even Just Blaze was an intricate part of making the Blueprint a classic. You could argue ALC's work with Mobb Deep but 1: he didn't really have his sound yet and 2. he didn't really contribute to their greatest work.

 

[Mr.Logic]

Since you don't respect Alc, which producers craft do you actually hold in high regard?

It is not that I don't respect Alchemist...I am just not willing to crown him knowing that dude is predominantly a looper...

Ideally, sampling should be done like "Shook Ones Part 2" "Survival of the fittest" and "Ice cream"...You can listen to the original song everyday and NEVER figure it out...The only way you can figure out those samples is by actively looking for them and pure accident...

Good luck figuring out some of the samples that 4th Disciples used in Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars...Even if you figure out one sample, there are 3 or 4 other in the same song that have not been identified...That makes it SUPER hard to replicate a 4th Disciple beat...

Most Alchemist beats can EASILY be replicated to the same exact "sound" i.e. emotion and atmosphere the sample creates...

When you loop, another producer can do the same, and the only credit you can really claim is "I used the sample first"...and that really isn't saying much...

Play the average Alchemist beat, and play the original song, and the sample is right there and OBVIOUS...

That's like calling an artist a genius sculptor when all he does is cut out shapes that he likes, from an already constructed piece of art...It is even worse when the shapes that he chooses to cut out are the BEST parts of that already constructed piece of art...

I have no problems with other folks crowning Alchemist, and that's why I seldom start topics bashing his work, but if a poster makes a thread glorifying him, I will definitely throw in my 2 cents...

I am not trying to change any ones opinion, I am stating my own...

 

[Vandelay]

FWIW a lot of the best producers ever have worked with trash or at least very average or mediocre artists. From what experience I've had around some producers, many just want to work with people that they either get along with, or they find certain things about them interesting. They like how a certain rapper can ride the beat, or they like the way their voice sounds, or the artist is open to experimenting with different sounds, and the producer can use that artist to try some creative things of their own.

I've always been amazed how at little most producers care about lyrics or content, or things like that, when they pick who they want to work with.

In terms of full albums, or mostly produced albums...

Premier had his Group Homes, Blaq Poets, NYGz', Nick Javas', etc. Pete Rock has INI.

Dilla has Frank-n-Danks, Phat Kats, etc.

Even Kanye West had GLC, Consequence, and Really Doe. Dr. Dre had cats like Hittman, Bishop Lamont, and a gang of others.

Madlib has Strong Arm Steady, MED, and Guilty Simpson, and the goofy fukking white dude that's the lead singer for Future Islands. Example below. Guarantee Madlib did that because he finds it "interesting" and not because that dude is a next level rapper.

Spoiler

Alchemist has Domo Genesis, Boldy James, Willie the Kid, etc.

One of 9th Wonder's best produced albums is with Ness from Making the Band. And Murs is cool but is he really an "elite" rhymer? He's got 5 or 6 full albums with 9th.

Memphis Bleek got a lot of Just Blaze's best material.

It's nothing new for elite producers to work with average emcees.

Agree...and I almost stopped short of posting it. But when someone garbage starts spitting over a beat, it completely takes me out of the song.

I mean from a technical and creative standpoint I can recognize greatness, but to be in my top category as far as beat making, I have to bond with the song. And the song doesn't resonate with me if the artist spits some trash.

Personally, this is why I think Dre is great, and personally I would put him over someone like Quik.

 

[DrHackenbush]

It is not that I don't respect Alchemist...I am just not willing to crown him knowing that dude is predominantly a looper...

Ideally, sampling should be done like "Shook Ones Part 2" "Survival of the fittest" and "Ice cream"...You can listen to the original song everyday and NEVER figure it out...The only way you can figure out those samples is by actively looking for them and pure accident...

Good luck figuring out some of the samples that 4th Disciples used in Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars...Even if you figure out one sample, there are 3 or 4 other in the same song that have not been identified...That makes it SUPER hard to replicate a 4th Disciple beat...

Most Alchemist beats can EASILY be replicated to the same exact "sound" i.e. emotion and atmosphere the sample creates...

When you loop, another producer can do the same, and the only credit you can really claim is "I used the sample first"...and that really isn't saying much...

Play the average Alchemist beat, and play the original song, and the sample is right there and OBVIOUS...

That's like calling an artist a genius sculptor when all he does is cut out shapes that he likes, from an already constructed piece of art...It is even worse when the shapes that he chooses to cut out are the BEST parts of that already constructed piece of art...

I have no problems with other folks crowning Alchemist, and that's why I seldom start topics bashing his work, but if a poster makes a thread glorifying him, I will definitely throw in my 2 cents...

I am not trying to change any ones opinion, I am stating my own...

Digging for good samples isn't easy man, now with whosampled the game is kinda up but there's no way the average producer is identifying most of Alcs samples without it. You gotta factor in he's produced how many full albums over the last 6/7 years also, 4th disciple is an amazing producer and that killarmy album is a production masterpiece but compare his body of work to alchemists it's not even close

 

[DillaTUDE]

It is not that I don't respect Alchemist...I am just not willing to crown him knowing that dude is predominantly a looper...

Ideally, sampling should be done like "Shook Ones Part 2" "Survival of the fittest" and "Ice cream"...You can listen to the original song everyday and NEVER figure it out...The only way you can figure out those samples is by actively looking for them and pure accident...

Good luck figuring out some of the samples that 4th Disciples used in Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars...Even if you figure out one sample, there are 3 or 4 other in the same song that have not been identified...That makes it SUPER hard to replicate a 4th Disciple beat...

Most Alchemist beats can EASILY be replicated to the same exact "sound" i.e. emotion and atmosphere the sample creates...

When you loop, another producer can do the same, and the only credit you can really claim is "I used the sample first"...and that really isn't saying much...

Play the average Alchemist beat, and play the original song, and the sample is right there and OBVIOUS...

That's like calling an artist a genius sculptor when all he does is cut out shapes that he likes, from an already constructed piece of art...It is even worse when the shapes that he chooses to cut out are the BEST parts of that already constructed piece of art...

I have no problems with other folks crowning Alchemist, and that's why I seldom start topics bashing his work, but if a poster makes a thread glorifying him, I will definitely throw in my 2 cents...

I am not trying to change any ones opinion, I am stating my own...

Now that you put it that way, I definitely see where you're coming from... He's mastered finding and sampling 'obscure' songs (or just sounds in general), but you won't find videos like this of any of his songs because he doesn't really do anything creative to the sample once he gets it:











^^^To be able to do the above requires a level of genius that few producers truly possess.

If you don't mind me asking, who do you believe to be the best hip-hop producer?

 

[SlurRty]

Just off these cuts alone

maybe top 10 sample based producer.. but he def aint top 5... there's ye.. there's just blaze.. there's dre.. could even put diddy up there possibly... pharrell.. premier.. etc

 

[Tetris v2.0]

I responded to every detail of your post. I've actually said more on the subject than you have. Are you mad or something? Trying to find a way to exit the convo quickly?

Nah, just a low tolerance for inflammatory, attention seeking posting. All good breh

 

[TheSickness]

Now that you put it that way, I definitely see where you're coming from... He's mastered finding and sampling 'obscure' songs (or just sounds in general), but you won't find videos like this of any of his songs because he doesn't really do anything creative to the sample once he gets it:











^^^To be able to do the above requires a level of genius that few producers truly possess.

If you don't mind me asking, who do you believe to be the best hip-hop producer?

I really thought you knew better, friend, seing that you're a huge J Dilla fan, as am i.
My top 2 are Alchemist and J Dilla.
I can't really choose a number one.
But to answer your question more thoroughly, i can post examples that people make those kinds of videos for his beats


also

Who can chop shyt up like this?

also


Did you see the new Amp Fiddler interview where he talks about Dilla and plays stems from his beats?