Alicia Keys Replacment is in effect

[aRoMaN21]

when you said this, you totally missed my point. When you sound or sing the song just like the sheet music...that means you have skill & technical ability even if you haven't been trained. You still possess that skill. But to interpret it & put your own spin on the said (written sound) that comes from somewhere other than the producer or the music itself & project it on to the fans feelings as well is what I'm talking about. When I hear hear, I hear great skill & vocal control but she does not have anything behind her, she's singing that song just like it was practiced and how she was taught how to perform it. There is no grit to it. It sounds great but it doesn't possess that 'other'.

Lets look at Basketball for comparison. When you see Mike do the reverse layup it looks and feels authentic, graceful even.



When you see Kobe do it...you can tell its not 'his' take on the reverse layup but MJ's...still effective and good but its not the same. not saying Kobe is the Ariana of BB though, just doing this for comparison's sake, to make you understand.

I get your point.
BUT, if you are reading sheet music usually the composer tells you how he wants it to sound. thats what tempo and articulation markings and such are for. u have to be trained to be able to read music the way the composer intended it to be.
this is what classical training is. you dont possess that skill if you havent been trained.

singing is the same an playing an instrument. the voice is an instrument and you need your eyes to be all you can be at it.
the ear is one thing,, but the eyes are another. and when you keep talking bout soul music and then you compare it to classical training is kinda confusing.
if you're gonna sing he music the way it is intended to be on the sheet, you are doing what you have been trained to do.
if you change the style of what that composer wanted and into your own, YOU JUST INTERPRETED THE PIECE. and its a big no no.
its like taking an eminem verse and rewriting words and saying its the original.

so yes i get your point. but singing soul should not be compared to sheet music.
ariana sings her own melodies and has people tell her what and how to sing. soul is involved in that.
no sheet music/

 

[Brofato]

Ariana can sing her ass off. And her album is kinda piff I can't even front on that.

I agree. She needs to find her own footing though. It seems like her label has her in between little girl and grown woman and she doesn't know where to land.

 

[MostReal]

I get your point.
BUT, if you are reading sheet music usually the composer tells you how he wants it to sound. thats what tempo and articulation markings and such are for. u have to be trained to be able to read music the way the composer intended it to be.
this is what classical training is. you dont possess that skill if you havent been trained.

singing is the same an playing an instrument. the voice is an instrument and you need your eyes to be all you can be at it.
the ear is one thing,, but the eyes are another. and when you keep talking bout soul music and then you compare it to classical training is kinda confusing.
if you're gonna sing he music the way it is intended to be on the sheet, you are doing what you have been trained to do.
if you change the style of what that composer wanted and into your own, YOU JUST INTERPRETED THE PIECE. and its a big no no.
its like taking an eminem verse and rewriting words and saying its the original.

so yes i get your point. but singing soul should not be compared to sheet music.
ariana sings her own melodies and has people tell her what and how to sing. soul is involved in that.
no sheet music/

no, you are almost there but this is why most white people don't get the song right when they sing...they go straight by the book or the composer. Blacks we look at the composer as a guide & build off of that. You say its a no no...blacks want that 'no no' to an extent. We want to stay within the framework of the song but we take it 'there' with no questions asked. Technical Skill is the ability to play the song just like the sheet music or how the composer asked you to do it.
Soul is having that ability and then adding your own personal flavor to the song. I really don't know how to describe it anymore than that. I just know it when I hear it & I don't hear it with her. Great skill though.

one more example

Listen to this

& now this



...its a big difference. One has Soul and one does not

you feel the last one

 

[aRoMaN21]

no, you are almost there but this is why most white people don't get the song right when they sing...they go straight by the book or the composer. Blacks we look at the composer as a guide & build off of that. You say its a no no...blacks want that 'no no' to an extent. We want to stay within the framework of the song but we take it 'there' with no questions asked. Technical Skill is the ability to play the song just like the sheet music or how the composer asked you to do it.
Soul is having that ability and then adding your own personal flavor to the song. I really don't know how to describe it anymore than that. I just know it when I hear it & I don't hear it with her. Great skill though.

one more example

Listen to this

& now this



...its a big difference. One has Soul and one does not

you feel the last one

first off, that whole white/ blakk thing u wrote above is some dumb bullshyt. i get why u compared two races but son, some people who are either white or blakk dont fall into your dumb stereotype of skin color and music. u really had to throw the race card into play?
NO. NOT ALL "WHITE" PEOPLE go straight to the book. but fukk yes its nice to know wtf that book has to offer me.
where did you grow up? why did you throw in a fukking race card when were talking about your dumb comparison of reading sheet music to having soul in your fukking voice???????

 

[aRoMaN21]

no, you are almost there but this is why most white people don't get the song right when they sing...they go straight by the book or the composer. Blacks we look at the composer as a guide & build off of that. You say its a no no...blacks want that 'no no' to an extent. We want to stay within the framework of the song but we take it 'there' with no questions asked. Technical Skill is the ability to play the song just like the sheet music or how the composer asked you to do it.
Soul is having that ability and then adding your own personal flavor to the song. I really don't know how to describe it anymore than that. I just know it when I hear it & I don't hear it with her. Great skill though.



...its a big difference. One has Soul and one does not

you feel the last one

and do you understand why i said ITS A NO NO???
what soul singer reads sheet music of a composer that wrote it down???????
you comparing apples to bananas.
soul music never came frm reading peoples sheet music they wrote down.

U MAKE NO FUKKING SENSE AND THREW IN A RACE CARD TO PLAY. why?

 

[MostReal]

first off, that whole white/ blakk thing u wrote above is some dumb bullshyt. i get why u compared two races but son, some people who are either white or blakk dont fall into your dumb stereotype of skin color and music. u really had to throw the race card into play?
NO. NOT ALL "WHITE" PEOPLE go straight to the book. but fukk yes its nice to know wtf that book has to offer me.
where did you grow up? why did you throw in a fukking race card when were talking about your dumb comparison of reading sheet music to having soul in your fukking voice???????

if you read what I wrote..I said most...this guy is white and he most def has soul


so its not some race card...its just music & most white people do miss it because they don't like it or don't have that grit in their music.
Ariana just does not have it.

and do you understand why i said ITS A NO NO???
what soul singer reads sheet music of a composer that wrote it down???????
you comparing apples to bananas.
soul music never came frm reading peoples sheet music they wrote down.

listen...its not about reading music, most singers learn by ear. But that doesn't mean the music was never written a certain way and meant to sound a certain way. Great singers expound off of what the composer wrote & adds flavor to the song. That's why composers hand pick certain singers to perform their music because they want that flavor that only that singer can provide.

 

[aRoMaN21]

if you read what I wrote..I said most...this guy is white and he most def has soul


so its not some race card...its just music & most white people do miss it because they don't like it or don't have that grit in their music.
Ariana just does not have it.

most white people in music are rich cacs. the white people who are poor with soul arent in the music industry cuz they cant get in.
thats what american idol came out for.

 

[Marvel]

Jesus H. Christ, read between the lines...

I was using the analogy of Black IMAGERY being lessened in terms of the 1st tier R&B artists being linked to R&B moving away from its Black roots...

Where are today's equivalents of Jodeci, R. Kelly, Whitney Houston, Mary J. Blige, Brandy, Boyz II Men, etc?

Dude, your humor made no sense at all. Chris Brown is a pop artist now. He just dabbles in rnb every now and then. Trey Songz is not even relevant to the masses. He can't even go gold and he makes good Rnb albums IMO.

You don't understand why Jodeci, R. Kelly, Whitney Houston, Mary J. Blige, Brandy, Boyz II Men equivlants are gone?

1. Groups are no longer big, the money in the industry is not what it used to be when groups were going 5-10x platinum (the 5-10 million in the US buddy). So Jodeci, Boyz II Men, and other groups like 112 and Jagged Edge cannot survive financially in this climate. Plus labels are not backing black RnB groups anymore. Its no longer profitable to them.

2. R. Kelly is still holding down a niche market that he created but he is not seeing sales like he used to. The Dream and Tricky tried and failed...Trey Songz tried and failed. Jeremih tried and failed. August Alsina will try and probably fail. That doesn't mean these guys are not producing good music though. Only thing left is for them to do is use their talent to write and produce hits for Justin Bieber and other pop artists who want to do more RnB if they want to make money long term.

3. The next Whitney was Jennifer Hudson...Go back to page 1...white folks don't want to hear new RnB music from black folk. She had major backing from an industry juggernaut in Clive Davis and still failed. White people are ok with listening to an old Whitney album instead. Unfortunately, they push sales since they are the majority.

4. Mary J. Blige and Brandy doppelgangers are found all over but those types are not successful in today's climate.

Those people you named were getting backed by major labels that wanted them to succeed. In addition, the masses were used to getting their RnB/Soul from black artists back in the 80s and 90s. Believe or not, if Mariah was full white back then she wouldn't have been successful. And this was the case that a good white RnB artist like Jon B was more successful among black people and failed among white audiences. Pink's first album was RnB and it didn't have legs, Robin Thicke's early work was overlooked. Joss Stone struggled in the US. The white public was not ready to hear them do RnB, but based on their buying and listening patterns today...they are saying, they are ready. Amy Winehouse blew up, Adele, etc. They could have released the same albums in 1993 and they would have failed. 20 years later, that is not the case.

 

[MostReal]

while she has studied Maria as well, her tone quality is more comparable to Tamia IMO

check it

 

[JustCKing]

But shes only 19. Even xtina aguilera's voice got better after she went through what ever bullshyt she went through. U cant shyt on this little girl yet. Giver her time. She's never been to church like that. Shes catholic. u cant expect that shyt frm her.
GIve her time. She already has some soul. listen to her album.

I'm not taking anything away from her. I just don't think experience brings out the soul in an artist. Take Michael Jackson for instance. "Never Can Say Goodbye" is soulful and he was still a kid. He didn't come up in a church either as he was a Jehovah's Witness. Another example is Adele. Her first album came out when she was like 19. I'm not sure if Lauryn Hill came up in the church, but she still had soul and was pretty young (as was Tonya Blount) singing in Sister Act.

 

[JustCKing]

Dude, your humor made no sense at all. Chris Brown is a pop artist now. He just dabbles in rnb every now and then. Trey Songz is not even relevant to the masses. He can't even go gold and he makes good Rnb albums IMO.

You don't understand why Jodeci, R. Kelly, Whitney Houston, Mary J. Blige, Brandy, Boyz II Men equivlants are gone?

1. Groups are no longer big, the money in the industry is not what it used to be when groups were going 5-10x platinum (the 5-10 million in the US buddy). So Jodeci, Boyz II Men, and other groups like 112 and Jagged Edge cannot survive financially in this climate. Plus labels are not backing black RnB groups anymore. Its no longer profitable to them.

2. R. Kelly is still holding down a niche market that he created but he is not seeing sales like he used to. The Dream and Tricky tried and failed...Trey Songz tried and failed. Jeremih tried and failed. August Alsina will try and probably fail. That doesn't mean these guys are not producing good music though. Only thing left is for them to do is use their talent to write and produce hits for Justin Bieber and other pop artists who want to do more RnB if they want to make money long term.

3. The next Whitney was Jennifer Hudson...Go back to page 1...white folks don't want to hear new RnB music from black folk. She had major backing from an industry juggernaut in Clive Davis and still failed. White people are ok with listening to an old Whitney album instead. Unfortunately, they push sales since they are the majority.

4. Mary J. Blige and Brandy doppelgangers are found all over but those types are not successful in today's climate.

Those people you named were getting backed by major labels that wanted them to succeed. In addition, the masses were used to getting their RnB/Soul from black artists back in the 80s and 90s. Believe or not, if Mariah was full white back then she wouldn't have been successful. And this was the case that a good white RnB artist like Jon B was more successful among black people and failed among white audiences. Pink's first album was RnB and it didn't have legs, Robin Thicke's early work was overlooked. Joss Stone struggled in the US. The white public was not ready to hear them do RnB, but based on their buying and listening patterns today...they are saying, they are ready. Amy Winehouse blew up, Adele, etc. They could have released the same albums in 1993 and they would have failed. 20 years later, that is not the case.

I don't think it has anything to do with white folks not wanting to hear new R&B from black folk. Robin Thicke popped off because he finally made a song that was catchy enough for Pop radio, but also appealed to Urban. The white folk that listen to Pop radio probably don't even consider Robin a Pop artist. "Blurred Lines" was their introduction to his music.

In regard to R&B groups, none of them have been successful since the early 00's. 112 and Jagged Edge were the last hope. Once they disbanded, R&B groups (male, female, black, white, or otherwise) pretty much phased out.

Jennifer Hudson was never going to be what Clive tries to make her out to be because she's just not. It doesn't matter how many marketing dollars he throws behind her. In fact, Clive kind of ethered her career by marketing her as "the next (insert legendary female singer)". People that hold Whitney and Aretha in high regard are going to look at such claims from Clive with a .

White artists like Jon B. was successful with Urban audiences, but failed to go mainstream because he wasn't making the type of music that crossed over. At the time Backstreet Boys, N'sync, and the like were big in the Pop world. His music wasn't bubblegum to appeal to those audiences. Amy Winehouse and Adele are successful because of timing and they made music that could exist in both formats.

Mary J. Blige is still successful even without a hit single. Her last studio album sold 700K+. She released a new Christmas album, but those rarely sell much.

Mariah was going to be successful regardless. She was appealing to Pop, R&B, and Hip Hop audiences.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Without Christianity/black church we wouldn't have Entertainment (Heck look at most entertainers in 60s-90s background)/Civil Rights Movement. God has been good to us black folks as much as we hate to say it.

"god" doesnt exist.

but the "church environment" spun a lot of black music...so I'll grant you that.

 

[Wild self]

Dude, your humor made no sense at all. Chris Brown is a pop artist now. He just dabbles in rnb every now and then. Trey Songz is not even relevant to the masses. He can't even go gold and he makes good Rnb albums IMO.

You don't understand why Jodeci, R. Kelly, Whitney Houston, Mary J. Blige, Brandy, Boyz II Men equivlants are gone?

1. Groups are no longer big, the money in the industry is not what it used to be when groups were going 5-10x platinum (the 5-10 million in the US buddy). So Jodeci, Boyz II Men, and other groups like 112 and Jagged Edge cannot survive financially in this climate. Plus labels are not backing black RnB groups anymore. Its no longer profitable to them.

2. R. Kelly is still holding down a niche market that he created but he is not seeing sales like he used to. The Dream and Tricky tried and failed...Trey Songz tried and failed. Jeremih tried and failed. August Alsina will try and probably fail. That doesn't mean these guys are not producing good music though. Only thing left is for them to do is use their talent to write and produce hits for Justin Bieber and other pop artists who want to do more RnB if they want to make money long term.

3. The next Whitney was Jennifer Hudson...Go back to page 1...white folks don't want to hear new RnB music from black folk. She had major backing from an industry juggernaut in Clive Davis and still failed. White people are ok with listening to an old Whitney album instead. Unfortunately, they push sales since they are the majority.

4. Mary J. Blige and Brandy doppelgangers are found all over but those types are not successful in today's climate.

Those people you named were getting backed by major labels that wanted them to succeed. In addition, the masses were used to getting their RnB/Soul from black artists back in the 80s and 90s. Believe or not, if Mariah was full white back then she wouldn't have been successful. And this was the case that a good white RnB artist like Jon B was more successful among black people and failed among white audiences. Pink's first album was RnB and it didn't have legs, Robin Thicke's early work was overlooked. Joss Stone struggled in the US. The white public was not ready to hear them do RnB, but based on their buying and listening patterns today...they are saying, they are ready. Amy Winehouse blew up, Adele, etc. They could have released the same albums in 1993 and they would have failed. 20 years later, that is not the case.

SMH @ what the music game has become. Especially once, that CACs calling R & B ****** music

 

[keond]

White people and Asians are masters at mimicking. Asians can mimick everything from food to clothing to electronics. Whites on the other hand mimic entire cultures.Blacks are so accepting and good natured deep down that instead of hindering these outsiders from stealing we actually AID them. Behind every Robin thicke there is a Pharrell, behind every JT there is a Timbo. The only devils i can fully cosign stealing our culture is Teena Marie and Michael Mcdonald

 

[Insensitive]

so frank ocean and miguel didn't own 2012?

how fickle are y'all?

Brah.
The fact of the matter is 99% of the people in this thread
would rather moan about Arianna Grande (an artist I hardly know anything about
and I get the feeling they're in the same boat) than support talented black R&B artists.

Most of the people in this thread likely :
Haven't touched a Frank Ocean or Miguel Album.
They couldn't tell you who Jesse boykins or Charles Bradley is.
They didn't even know Raheem Devaughn dropped an album this year
that bilal dropped an album this year or that Dwele dropped one last year.

It's not like over night black talent disappeared.
What happened is that R&B isn't nearly as viable as it once was
on a commercial level (at least for black artists) and those same "Fans" aren't going
to go and check on their favorite artist unless a major is shoving them
in their faces daily.

I won't lie, there has been a b*stardization of R&B somewhat.
When you've got artists like Chris Brown and Trey songz moonlighting
as rappers then turning around and making "love" songs in a Hip Hop format.
And I personally think Chris brown and Trey Songz have some good material
out there but they themselves have fallen victim to creating increasingly absurd
material in an attempt to maintain relevance.
Chris Brown more so than Trey Songz.

Which is weird because I think they both have the singing
talent to make records that are of great quality