American Drone Strike Policy Discussion

ltheghost

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I mean, I feel that. But that mentality of 'not really giving a f' is what we have in MI for MI residents as well, which is y we have a gun culture. I bet most people where I'm from, Detroit, could care less about what's happening in sagnasty. And that's within the same state. We really should care about every innocent person on the same planet. I care a little less if it's some guy that's living the life- military, thug, drug dealer, police officer, etc. Even if it's my friend because people make choices; except someone randomly killed.

We chose to passively support the killing of children overseas. They don't have a clue about our politics, our fake war; they don't know where Nevada is and they don't understand why someone sitting in Nevada would control a plane to kill their non-terrorist family.

You are right. You are 100% CORRECT! I guess I'm too into survival mode to be worrying about the middle east or where my tax money is going. Its just where my head is at. I just don't care anymore...And lets be honest...Flint is fukking nightmare..lol
 

Broke Wave

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It's only business as usual because people accept it as business as usual.

The Constitution, much like a 100 dollar bill, is a worthless piece of paper unless we assign value to it. The government can and will do anything we let them do.

People who don't find this troubling are just mind boggling... what if the Govt had the ability to suspend free-speech for American Citizens... How would people feel about that? What would even be the point of America???
 

No1

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I believe that all able-bodied men )and women) who believe or advocate for war should fight that war. It's easy to foam at the mouth when they aren't the ones putting the life on the line. That's why I despise these Sean Hannity/dikk Cheney type of motherfukkers who purposely chose not to serve but are eager to send someone else.




I can't say I disagree with this, but it doesn't make it right.



It isn't foreign policy though. I could give a fukk less about Awlaki as a person. He probably deserved to die, but we need a system that allows citizens to explain their innocence in a court of law and he deserved some form of that. We can't give people blank checks to sign on people's lives without trial, even if it did happen in the past.

Can you imagine someone like Bachman, who advocated McCarthyism in charge of this drone program with the powers that this memo entails?

I think there is a difference between ghost and chickenhawks. I don't think it's fair to try to put him in that. But it is foreign policy. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Technically speaking, it involves American citizens so it reflects on our system of law. But to the average person it doesn't resonate that way. It resonates as guys out there in the Middle East with the intention of blowing up Middle America. The same country that was afraid to prosecute people from Guantanomo in their home states is not going to turn around and cry over due process for Americans who have basically traded in their citizenship for terrorism. So, I don't know how you get people angry about something like this. It just falls into the category of people that are angry about this are angry about a lot of other things, and movement doesn't happen when those people get angry.

It's when the free rider, the one who either loses or benefits from democracy without acting gets upset that something happens. Basically, I just don't see how you make people care. Which is obviously the most danger times for civil rights violations, when people are to preoccupied to pay attention. I was musing about this in the other thread.
 

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You are right. You are 100% CORRECT! I guess I'm too into survival mode to be worrying about the middle east or where my tax money is going. Its just where my head is at. I just don't care anymore...And lets be honest...Flint is fukking nightmare..lol
It makes me sad though that we can't escape the brainwashing. I'm on hear talking all this, but realistically I'm on that mode too. I think there should be some light gun control, but I'm staying strapped, damn near have an arsenal in my house. I don't let my girl randomly go out to the store in the middle of the night, it seems like every other weeks it's a woman's body in the truck in metro detroit (or abandoned house if in detroit). lol, when i say tax dollars, I am saying it because of the innocent lives, but I'm also saying it because we could be using it here.

And Flint, I truly believe that flint is one of the worse, most violent, crazy places on Earth.
 

CurrencyChase

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You are right. You are 100% CORRECT! I guess I'm too into survival mode to be worrying about the middle east or where my tax money is going. Its just where my head is at. I just don't care anymore...And lets be honest...Flint is fukking nightmare..lol

I bet you be the first to cry and hide when a world war break out. You sound like the type that bark aggressively trying to make another man kill another. True coward. I hope you understand that the way the U.S is killing is going to lead to a world war on American soil?
 

ltheghost

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I only ask because I get kind of pissed when I hear this rah-rah shyt about killing the enemy from people who decided to stay home for whatever reason. I understand if certain circumstances prevent you from joining, but going to school isn't one of them.

It seems cowardly. No disrespect.

I understand your point of view. But going to school kept me from killing or being killed in my hometown. Pulled me out of that hellhole. I'm not rah-rah-ing it. I'm just saying I don't care. It may be colorful language but I don't care what happens over there and I honestly..never did. Its never made me march or argue with anyone over it. I thought Iraq was some bullshyt, I didn't go. Israel and Palestine is some bullshyt and I don't care. Obama drone striking some people, I don't care I'm apathetic to the whole situation. The only thing I care about is the current gun situation in this country. Because it affects me the most directly since I'm more at risk at being shot than being hit with a drone strike. Its just my opinion but at the end of the day I don't care what happens over there when we have to wake up everyday hearing about more young black men murdered by other young black men usually over some bullshyt. That's my concern and my focus. I'm just being honest.
 

newworldafro

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Congress Considers Putting Limits on Drone Strikes - Yahoo! News

Congress Considers Putting Limits on Drone Strikes
ABC OTUS News – 9 hrs ago

Uncomfortable with the Obama administration's use of deadly drones, a growing number in Congress is looking to limit America's authority to kill suspected terrorists, even U.S. citizens. The Democratic-led outcry was emboldened by the revelation in a newly surfaced Justice Department memo that shows drones can strike against a wider range of threats, with less evidence, than previously believed.

The drone program, which has been used from Pakistan across the Middle East and into North Africa to find and kill an unknown number of suspected terrorists, is expected to be a top topic of debate when the Senate Intelligence Committee grills John Brennan, the White House's pick for CIA chief, at a hearing Thursday.

The White House on Tuesday defended its lethal drone program by citing the very laws that some in Congress once believed were appropriate in the years immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks but now think may be too broad.

"It has to be in the agenda of this Congress to reconsider the scope of action of drones and use of deadly force by the United States around the world because the original authorization of use of force, I think, is being strained to its limits," Sen. Chris c00ns, D-Del., said in a recent interview.

Rep. Steny Hoyer of Maryland, the No. 2 Democrat in the House, said Tuesday that "it deserves a serious look at how we make the decisions in government to take out, kill, eliminate, whatever word you want to use, not just American citizens but other citizens as well."

Hoyer added: "We ought to carefully review our policies as a country."

Earlier this week, a group of 11 Democratic and Republican senators urged President Barack Obama to release a classified Justice Department legal opinion justifying when U.S. counterterror missions, including drone strikes, can be used to kill American citizens abroad.

Without those documents, it's impossible for Congress and the public to decide "whether this authority has been properly defined, and whether the president's power to deliberately kill Americans is subject to appropriate limitations and safeguards," the senators wrote.

Instead, members of Congress received an unclassified Justice Department memo, which falls short of giving the senators all the information they requested.

First detailed publicly by NBC News late Monday, the memo for the first time outlines the Obama administration's decision to kill al-Qaida terror suspects without any evidence that specific and imminent plots are being planned against the United States.

"The threat posed by al-Qaida and its associated forces demands a broader concept of imminence in judging when a person continually planning terror attacks presents an imminent threat," concluded the document.

The memo was immediately decried by civil liberties groups as "flawed" and "profoundly disturbing" — especially in light of 2011 U.S. drone strikes in Yemen that killed three American citizens: Anwar al-Awlaki, his 16-year-old-son and Samir Khan.

White House spokesman Jay Carney, echoing comments Brennan made in a speech last April, called the strikes "legal, ethical and wise" and said they are covered by a law that Congress approved allowing the use of military force against al-Qaida.

"And certainly, under that authority, the president acts in the United States' interest to protect the United States and its citizens from al-Qaida," Carney said Tuesday.

"It is a matter of fact that Congress authorized the use of military force against al-Qaida," Carney said. "It is a matter of fact that al-Qaida is in a state of war against us and that senior leaders, operational leaders of al-Qaida are continually plotting to attack the United States, plotting to kill American citizens as they did most horrifically on September 11th of 2001."

Three days after 9/11, Congress approved a law authorizing the military to use "all necessary and appropriate force" against al-Qaida and other groups believed to be helping or harboring the global terror network, including the use of drone strikes. In the decade since the attacks, U.S. intelligence officials say, al-Qaida has splintered into a number of affiliates and allied sympathizers. That means the current laws could allow military force against thousands of extremists across the Mideast and North Africa who have limited or no ability to strike the United States.

Currently, both the CIA and the U.S. military are authorized to remotely pilot unmanned, missile-carrying drones against terror suspects. It's unknown exactly how many strikes have been carried out, but experts say that drone attacks in Pakistan are conducted by the CIA, while those in Yemen and Somalia, for example, are by military forces.

The drones have strained diplomacy between the U.S. and the nations where the strikes are carried out, as civilians have been killed alongside the targeted terrorists, even though most nations have given Washington at least tacit agreement to carry out the attacks.

A Middle Eastern diplomat said that in Yemen, for example, an uptick of U.S. drone strikes last month have killed dozens of people and upset the local public, leading some leaders in Sanaa to reconsider how often they should be used. The diplomat spoke Tuesday on condition of anonymity to avoid political retribution from the Obama administration.

The Pentagon is also considering basing surveillance drones in Mali to monitor burgeoning extremist violence in North Africa, but it's not clear if they will be armed. And Brennan, who currently serves as the White House counterterrorism czar, has signaled that he is prepared to hand over drone missions to the U.S. military.

Sen. Ron Wyden, a senior Democrat on the Senate intelligence panel, said he will press Brennan on Thursday about the administration's legal rationale for resorting to drone strikes that could kill Americans. He declared himself unsatisfied with the Justice memo.

"Every American has the right to know when their government believes that it is allowed to kill them," said Wyden, D-Ore.

The drone debate puts Obama — himself a former civil rights lawyer — in the awkward position of carrying out lethal attacks in secret and bucking his political allies in the Democratic Party. Democratic lawmakers were incensed by the refusal of the Republican administration of President George W. Bush to hand over classified Justice Department opinions justifying the use of waterboarding, the harsh interrogation tactic that critics call a form of torture. Obama repudiated those methods when he took office in 2009.

Still, experts who closely watch the U.S. drone policy say it's unlikely that Congress can — or will — do much to scale back their use for fear of being seen as soft on terrorism. The use of drones proved to have no political cost to Obama in his re-election campaign.

"Democrats don't want to challenge a Democrat in the White House. Republicans don't want to look weak in questioning lethal operations," said Micah Zenko, a fellow with the Council on Foreign Relations. "There's this fascinating bipartisan agreement to not conduct proper oversight over what is a defining characteristic of current U.S. foreign policy. It is a huge shortcoming."
 

ltheghost

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I bet you be the first to cry and hide when a world war break out. You sound like the type that bark aggressively trying to make another man kill another. True coward. I hope you understand that the way the U.S is killing is going to lead to a world war on American soil?

You got me all wrong..I'm the type if you come into my house, you won't make it out. I won't call the police for help either...I'm calling for a body bag. And stop being a baby. Do you understand what type of weaponry we have? This isn't North Korea, if the USA decides to bomb on that ass its over. And I don't give a fukk about them people over there. You really believe I give a damn what happens in the fukking Middle East?? No bytch, I don't. This is about money. Resources. If the USA decides they want to take your shyt, it is gone. Stop being naive and watching Red Dawn.

This country would be the absolute worst to invade...Imagine some country trying to go into Flint!?!?!
 

ltheghost

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It makes me sad though that we can't escape the brainwashing. I'm on hear talking all this, but realistically I'm on that mode too. I think there should be some light gun control, but I'm staying strapped, damn near have an arsenal in my house. I don't let my girl randomly go out to the store in the middle of the night, it seems like every other weeks it's a woman's body in the truck in metro detroit (or abandoned house if in detroit). lol, when i say tax dollars, I am saying it because of the innocent lives, but I'm also saying it because we could be using it here.

And Flint, I truly believe that flint is one of the worse, most violent, crazy places on Earth.

Man, my wife was just telling about a woman being found in a trunk around Detroit. And that going out for a female after dark is too damn dangerous in the D and Saginaw. I'm on this, "We are on our own" when it comes to the government helping us out. I don't expect to be saved by the police or anyone else when I get in trouble. The police in Flint have said several times there are some parts of the city they will not go to after dark...lol..but people expect me to be all upset over some drone strikes....lol GTFO... I will say this and call me selfish, I'm protecting my family and that's it. I don't have time to care about what is happening over there when the shyt around the corner is even worse. I had to help my granddad move the hell outta Saginaw after his place got broke in two times...He has lived in the same spot for 40 years...Complete bullshyt.
 

Type Username Here

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You got me all wrong..I'm the type if you come into my house, you won't make it out. I won't call the police for help either...I'm calling for a body bag. And stop being a baby. Do you understand what type of weaponry we have? This isn't North Korea, if the USA decides to bomb on that ass its over. And I don't give a fukk about them people over there. You really believe I give a damn what happens in the fukking Middle East?? No bytch, I don't. This is about money. Resources. If the USA decides they want to take your shyt, it is gone. Stop being naive and watching Red Dawn.

I don't follow your logic.

In one hand, you want the Government to come solve the gun issues, and on the other hand you're advocating committing violence for money and resources. What happens if that drug dealer in your town is using his gun for money and resources to feed himself or his family? What if they need to kill one another, and put your in danger, for money and resources? Why doesn't the drug dealer have the right to kill you for any reason?

What gives the government the right to behave in a way you personally find dangerous at the micro level?
 

tru_m.a.c

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I mean, I feel that. But that mentality of 'not really giving a f' is what we have in MI for MI residents as well, which is y we have a gun culture. I bet most people where I'm from, Detroit, could care less about what's happening in sagnasty. And that's within the same state. We really should care about every innocent person on the same planet. I care a little less if it's some guy that's living the life- military, thug, drug dealer, police officer, etc. Even if it's my friend because people make choices; except someone randomly killed.

We chose to passively support the killing of children overseas. They don't have a clue about our politics, our fake war; they don't know where Nevada is and they don't understand why someone sitting in Nevada would control a plane to kill their non-terrorist family.

someone finally gets it

someone finally gets it
 

CurrencyChase

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You got me all wrong..I'm the type if you come into my house, you won't make it out. I won't call the police for help either...I'm calling for a body bag. And stop being a baby. Do you understand what type of weaponry we have? This isn't North Korea, if the USA decides to bomb on that ass its over. And I don't give a fukk about them people over there. You really believe I give a damn what happens in the fukking Middle East?? No bytch, I don't. This is about money. Resources. If the USA decides they want to take your shyt, it is gone. Stop being naive and watching Red Dawn.

This country would be the absolute worst to invade...Imagine some country trying to go into Flint!?!?!
:russ: your ignorance of the dangers and conditions of the world is on a child-like level. LOL at Flint. You telling people to kill people then make an excuses about how you had to go to school so you have to putting your killing murdering nature on hold. But if peeps come in your crib, you body begging them. This is something an ignorant child world say. Why would it be impossible to invade America during a World War? We are used to living, relaxing, with flowing water, and convenience. 60% of us wouldn't even know what to do against an army nation like N. Korea if they hit shore. World wars consist of our enemies and they themselves are Super Power nations. I'm just saying that your cousin fighting to the death and you will be the one crying like a little bytch..
 

ltheghost

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I don't follow your logic.

In one hand, you want the Government to come solve the gun issues, and on the other hand you're advocating committing violence for money and resources. What happens if that drug dealer in your town is using his gun for money and resources to feed himself or his family? What if they need to kill one another, and put your in danger, for money and resources? Why doesn't the drug dealer have the right to kill you for any reason?

What gives the government the right to behave in a way you personally find dangerous at the micro level?

I guess having the government do something about the influx of illegal guns in the community would be a pipe dream at best. But the government does what it wants when it wants. That's just been my experience in dealing the government at a local level all the way to the national level. They do what they want and bomb who they want. If the government was just the violence in the inner cities would stop. They would shut down these gun shows where people straw purchase weapons. But hey I live in reality and the reality that is around my loved ones. I'm lost on that drug dealer analogy so I can't really answer that, but if he was trying to kill me, I guess I would kill him first.
 

ltheghost

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:russ: your ignorance of the dangers and conditions of the world is on a child-like level. LOL at Flint. You telling people to kill people then make an excuses about how you had to go to school so you have to putting your killing murdering nature on hold. But if peeps come in your crib, you body begging them. This is something an ignorant child world say. Why would it be impossible to invade America during a World War? We are used to living, relaxing, with flowing water, and convenience. 60% of us wouldn't even know what to do against an army nation like N. Korea if they hit shore. World wars consist of our enemies and they themselves are Super Power nations. I'm just saying that your cousin fighting to the death and you will be the one crying like a little bytch..

bytch you know not of what you speak. :pachaha: You come in my house you are dead. Its not even an discussion. Thats where my concern ends. You are out here talking like you even understand a small iota of why these wars occur. Like its batteship or that we are fighting for freedom. Grow the fukk up and come back to reality. Ain't nobody living in convenience in the Dirty Glove! WTF are you even talking about? Go back to reading the news on the internet or playing call of duty. There is no nation insane enough to try a land invasion on America. That's like us saying we are going to invade China. :ld:

You don't invade countries with Nukes. Even Bush wasn't crazy enough to invade North Korea..but Iraq was a no brainer for the coward. So go back to waiting for me to give a fukk about the Middle East or why you think I should give a fukk about the Middle East. My concern is with my home and family...that's it. Take it how you want to.
 
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