Anthony Davis without Lebron

[Swagnificent]

Far cry from you saying he made them worse. He had a drop in efficiency but not in wins. He was back in the finals and took 2 games off the Warriors without Kyrie and Love. The Heat didn't make the playoffs. I agree that they were all helping each other but it seems like they needed him more than he needed them.

He did make them worse. Their volume decreased. And given the fact they all saw a 7% drop in efficiency the following year it proves he didn't help them be more efficient anymore than they helped him.

 

[Osmosis]

The difference is MJ and Kobe needed just one star next to them to win multiple chips. Bron needed at least 2.

Kobe winning 2 rings with Gasol ain't the same as Bron needing Wade and Bosh to equal Kobe's 2 with just Gasol.

Jordan was on a team that won 60 games without him. His second 3 peat he had another superstar, a DPOY candidate, and a 6 MOTY. Kobe was a sidekick for most of his rings.

Bron won with a young Kyrie and an injured Kevin Love against a 73-9 team and dominated the league with AD in 2020 at the age of 35.

 

[Swagnificent]

Jordan was on a team that won 60 games without him. His second 3 peat he had another superstar, a DPOY candidate, and a 6 MOTY. Kobe was a sidekick for most of his rings.

Bron won with a young Kyrie and an injured Kevin Love against a 73-9 team and dominated the league with AD in 2020 at the age of 35.

The Bulls won 55 games with him in 1994 after winning 57 games with him in 1993. So get your facts right. Also they weren't exactly the same team as they added Tony Kukoc in 94 and guys like BJ Armstrong took their games to another level.

With that said even if you wanna take away MJ's second 3peat because they added Rodman and Kobe's 3peat cause of Shaq, they both still have more rings than Bron does without 2 other superstars.

Kobe has 2 rings with just Gasol. More than Bron ever did with only 1 star player that has been to multiple all-star games. Same thing with Jordan's 3 rings with just Pippen.

 

[Osmosis]

The Bulls won 55 games with him in 1994 after winning 57 games with him in 1993. So get your facts right. Also they weren't exactly the same team as they added Tony Kukoc in 94 and guys like BJ Armstrong took their games to another level.

With that said even if you wanna take away MJ's second 3peat because they added Rodman and Kobe's 3peat cause of Shaq, they both still have more rings than Bron does without 2 other superstars.

Kobe has 2 rings with just Gasol. More than Bron ever did with only 1 star player that has been to multiple all-star games. Same thing with Jordan's 3 rings with just Pippen.

So subtract the GOAT and add Tony Kukoc and your team is only worse by two games? Maybe Jordan ball was holding BJ Armstrong back Pippen missed 10 games that season too, they were on a 60+ win pace in games that he played. So Pippen, Grant, Kukoc, and Armstrong is a 60 win team and you want to talk about Bron's supporting cast?

Lebron was the only Cavs all-star in 2016 and Love wasn't even healthy in the finals. It was Bron and a young Kyrie vs the best regular season team of all-time. The Lakers only had one other star in 2020 as well.

 

[LexDiamonds]

The difference is MJ and Kobe needed just one star next to them to win multiple chips. Bron needed at least 2.

Kobe winning 2 rings with Gasol ain't the same as Bron needing Wade and Bosh to equal Kobe's 2 with just Gasol.

When Cavs won in 2016 Lebron had production of 1 all-star (Kyrie - Kevin Love didn't make the all-star team and averaged 8ppg in the finals. He also got a concussion which hampered him). He won another ring in 2020 with AD. 2 titles with 1 all-star = multiple.

Kobe might have had only had 1 all-star for each ring, but Shaq counts as greater help than Lebron ever had since he was better than Kobe and was finals MVP in every title victory. For his other two chips he had Gasol like you mentioned, but also Bynum, Artest (former defensive player of the year), and Odom (6th man) playing comparatively to Love a ("star").

I'll give you MJ though. Only Pippen for the 1st three, the 2nd three he did have Rodman who was definitely a star if we are counting Love as one.

He did make them worse. Their volume decreased. And given the fact they all saw a 7% drop in efficiency the following year it proves he didn't help them be more efficient anymore than they helped him.

Then I guess they made him worse since his volume also decreased. His efficiency eventually recovered the following years while theirs never did. He also won rings again while they never did.

 

[Ozymandeas]

Who isn't a career loser without good teammates? That's like saying MJ is a career loser without Pippen, or Kobe is a career loser without Shaq or Gasol, or Shaq is a career loser without Kobe or Wade.

Lebron has won 2 championships without Wade and Wade has won 1 championship without Lebron. Who didn't need who?

You thought you had one

 

[LexDiamonds]

You thought you had one

Did I lie?

 

[god shamgod]

So subtract the GOAT and add Tony Kukoc and your team is only worse by two games? Maybe Jordan ball was holding BJ Armstrong back Pippen missed 10 games that season too, they were on a 60+ win pace in games that he played. So Pippen, Grant, Kukoc, and Armstrong is a 60 win team and you want to talk about Bron's supporting cast?

Lebron was the only Cavs all-star in 2016 and Love wasn't even healthy in the finals. It was Bron and a young Kyrie vs the best regular season team of all-time. The Lakers only had one other star in 2020 as well.

Bulls went 4-6 without pippen that year dikkrider , they had 3 all stars,2 all nba defensive players ,a decorated rookie who hit 3-4 gw shots & STILL lost in the 2nd round to a team they habitually sonned in the playoffs

Dudes love gassin that overachieving ‘94 bulls team who didn’t get further than the did with the goat. Chris Paul got clowned for never getting out the 2nd round but the defending champ bulls get praised for doing the same damn thing then the next season they were a 6 seed

 

[Swagnificent]

So subtract the GOAT and add Tony Kukoc and your team is only worse by two games? Maybe Jordan ball was holding BJ Armstrong back Pippen missed 10 games that season too, they were on a 60+ win pace in games that he played. So Pippen, Grant, Kukoc, and Armstrong is a 60 win team and you want to talk about Bron's supporting cast?

Lebron was the only Cavs all-star in 2016 and Love wasn't even healthy in the finals. It was Bron and a young Kyrie vs the best regular season team of all-time. The Lakers only had one other star in 2020 as well.

Who knows how many games the 94 Bulls win with Jordan. It's pure speculation to think that because the 93 team won 57 games and the 94 team won 55 that the difference Jordan made was just two games. The 2016 Warriors won 73 games without KD then with the same squad and KD in 2017 they won 67 games. Did adding KD make them worse? Anyone with basketball sense knows that was not the case.

The 2016 Warriors came into that season with something to prove cause people were calling their title the previous season a fluke because of injuries. So they took that regular season very seriously. They intentionally were chasing 70+ wins. The 2017 squad didn't care about regular season goals. They were just into winning the title. That's why despite being a far better team they had less regular season wins.

The 93 Bulls were the defending back to back Champs. They just won 67 games the previous year. They were not chasing regular season accolades. They were just focused on winning a ring. That's why they only won 57 games that year. The following season without Jordan they had something to prove. They took the regular season more seriously and hence ended up winning 55 games.

With regard to Kevin Love, he was 2nd team All-NBA twice before he joined LeBron. The fact Bron took him all the way down to not being an all-star in 2016 says more about Bron than Love.

 

[HollywoodP]

Trade him while he's healthy and has trade value. Lets get some 1sts

 

[Swagnificent]

When Cavs won in 2016 Lebron had production of 1 all-star (Kyrie - Kevin Love didn't make the all-star team and averaged 8ppg in the finals. He also got a concussion which hampered him). He won another ring in 2020 with AD. 2 titles with 1 all-star = multiple.

Kobe might have had only had 1 all-star for each ring, but Shaq counts as greater help than Lebron ever had since he was better than Kobe and was finals MVP in every title victory. For his other two chips he had Gasol like you mentioned, but also Bynum, Artest (former defensive player of the year), and Odom (6th man) playing comparatively to Love a ("star").

I'll give you MJ though. Only Pippen for the 1st three, the 2nd three he did have Rodman who was definitely a star if we are counting Love as one.

Then I guess they made him worse since his volume also decreased. His efficiency eventually recovered the following years while theirs never did. He also won rings again while they never did.

Kevin Love was 2nd team All-NBA twice before he joined LeBron. The fact Bron took him all the way down to not being an all-star in 2016 says more about Bron than Love.

Ron Artest was 6 years removed from being a defensive player of the year. To act like he was still that caliber of player in 2010 is asinine. Most Lakers fans will tell you Trevor Ariza was better in 2009 than Artest was in 2010. With regard to Bynum, he averaged 6 ppg and 4rpg in the 2009 Finals and 7ppg and 5rpg in the 2010 Finals. He was injured for most of those years and when he did play he was nothing more than a role player. It wasn't until 2012 that he became an all-star and started forcing Gasol to take a step back. And finally Odom. While he was a good player he was never an all-star or close to it. He was simply your typical 3rd best player on a team. He was nowhere close to someone like Bosh or Love.

 

[Osmosis]

Bulls went 4-6 without pippen that year dikkrider , they had 3 all stars,2 all nba defensive players ,a decorated rookie who hit 3-4 gw shots & STILL lost in the 2nd round to a team they habitually sonned in the playoffs

Dudes love gassin that overachieving ‘94 bulls team who didn’t get further than the did with the goat. Chris Paul got clowned for never getting out the 2nd round but the defending champ bulls get praised for doing the same damn thing then the next season they were a 6 seed

They had a bum from the italian league replace the best player in the league dumbfukk and they still played at a near 60 win pace when healthy and went 7 against the eventual Eastern conference champs.

You Jordan dikkriders are dumb, Jordan had Pippen, a top 10 player in the league, as his sidekick and Grant and Armstrong (the two players that blossomed into all-stars without Jordan) as his role players. Pippen didn't have another top 10 player in the league next to him like Jordan did. Replace Jordan with an all-star and the Bulls win a championship that season.

Who knows how many games the 94 Bulls win with Jordan. It's pure speculation to think that because the 93 team won 57 games and the 94 team won 55 that the difference Jordan made was just two games. The 2016 Warriors won 73 games without KD then with the same squad and KD in 2017 they won 67 games. Did adding KD make them worse? Anyone with basketball sense knows that was not the case.

The 2016 Warriors came into that season with something to prove cause people were calling their title the previous season a fluke because of injuries. So they took that regular season very seriously. They intentionally were chasing 70+ wins. The 2017 squad didn't care about regular season goals. They were just into winning the title. That's why despite being a far better team they had less regular season wins.

The 93 Bulls were the defending back to back Champs. They just won 67 games the previous year. They were not chasing regular season accolades. They were just focused on winning a ring. That's why they only won 57 games that year. The following season without Jordan they had something to prove. They took the regular season more seriously and hence ended up winning 55 games.

With regard to Kevin Love, he was 2nd team All-NBA twice before he joined LeBron. The fact Bron took him all the way down to not being an all-star in 2016 says more about Bron than Love.

The point is, Jordan had an elite supporting cast far greater than any cast Bron had. The fact that you're comparing them to the KD Warriors says it all. No Lebron team is playing at a 60 win pace if you replace him with Tony Snell and a rookie similar to Tony Kukoc.

Kevin love was injured in the finals and averaged 8 PPG dummy, he wasn't even the 5th best Cav in that series.

 

[JasoRockStar]

I mean, he did average 26, 9, 3, and 2 blocks on 61% TS for a full season with Lebron.

Also 28, 10, 3 and 1.6 blocks on over 66% TS during a playoff run that ended in a ring with Lebron.

Maybe he’s just in rhythm after missing so much time with injuries??? He never played 10 games in a row the last two years. It couldn’t possibly be that though could it?

Logic and common sense doesn't exist with LeBron haters

 

[LexDiamonds]

Kevin Love was 2nd team All-NBA twice before he joined LeBron. The fact Bron took him all the way down to not being an all-star in 2016 says more about Bron than Love.

Ron Artest was 6 years removed from being a defensive player of the year. To act like he was still that caliber of player in 2010 is asinine. Most Lakers fans will tell you Trevor Ariza was better in 2009 than Artest was in 2010. With regard to Bynum, he averaged 6 ppg and 4rpg in the 2009 Finals and 7ppg and 5rpg in the 2010 Finals. He was injured for most of those years and when he did play he was nothing more than a role player. It wasn't until 2012 that he became an all-star and started forcing Gasol to take a step back. And finally Odom. While he was a good player he was never an all-star or close to it. He was simply your typical 3rd best player on a team. He was nowhere close to someone like Bosh or Love.

If that's true then why didn't Love rise back up when Lebron left? He was only 30 years old with no major injuries. Instead things got much worse for him immediately after. No all-star appearances since.

The answer is because he was never really that good. He put up stats on a bad Minnesota team with no expectations to win. Once he played under the bright lights with Lebron, he started having mental health problems. It was easy to slide under the radar in Minnesota with no one watching, zero nationally televised games, zero playoff appearances. Playing with Lebron your on national TV all the time, getting everyone's best effort. He was simply figured out by the rest of the league.

Similar argument can be made for Bosh. He was very good, better than Love, but never that good. I saw him up close in Toronto and he routinely came up short when the games mattered. Getting locked up by Mikki Moore, and Jason Collins and losing to the Nets in 6 games in the opening round with home court in 2007. Fake super stars.

 

[JasoRockStar]

Bron ball is better suited with shooters instead of a dominant big man, even a big man that can step out and shoot.

Sure, it worked in 2020, but that was the bubble.

He gotta be lookin at that Cavs squad like

Anthony Davis was voted 1st Team All NBA and First Team All Defense in 2020. The Lakers were the #1 seed in the West too. All of this before they stepped foot in the Bubble.


It's funny how people act like the 2020 season just started in the Bubble and the Lakers weren't seen as top contenders the whole season.