Any of y'all feel like advanced stats are ruining sports now?

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

can you actually sit there and say flat FG% is a better measurement of shooting than TS%?

It actually is - FG% is closer to the reality of a player's shooting ability than TS% is.

 

[Absolut]

It actually is - FG% is closer to the reality of a player's shooting ability than TS% is.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

It ain't an advanced metric, it isn't even a measure of a player's shooting percentage, much less TRUE shooting percentage. It's a warped measure of points per shot and leaves you with cases where a player may have a lower standard FG% than another, but has a higher TS% because more points are generated through the denom' of a 0.44 FTA and that every missed shot is valued the same (3pt missed shots are valued the SAME as 2pt missed shots but 3pt made shots are valued MORE than 2 pt made shots).

James Harden = 45 FG%
Chris Paul = 48 FG%

James Harden = 60.7 TS%
Chris Paul = 59.3 TS%

Because Harden has a higher FGs/FTAs ratio per game (and makes a fair amount of those free throw attempts) and a higher 3pt% and makes than Paul, it inflates his TS%. It leaves you with a total contrast of a picture that's closer to reality of their actual shooting percentages:

Chris Paul =

At rim - 69%
3ft to 10ft - 51%
10ft to 16ft - 50%
16ft to 3pt - 46%
3pt - 33%
FT - 89%

James Harden =

At rim - 62%
3ft to 10ft - 33%
10ft to 16ft - 37%
16ft to 3pt - 36%
3pt - 36%
FT - 85%

I'm all for more information to be used as further insight into the game, but not when it's used to insult my intelligence. The TS% metric has as much use as a 'boxing out rebound percentage' metric, that has a steals off inbound passes built into its formula.

 

[MegaTronBomb!]

wasnt QBR created because QBs were getting credit for passes & WR doing most of work?
how is that bad when folks complain about the credit QBs be getting is not deserved

QBR was created, cause ESPN needed a way to stan Tony Romo despite him being a career underachiever and the Cowboys went 6-10 the previous season.

 

[Mic-Nificent]

The stats aren't the problem.

The problem is people putting TOO much stock into them or misinterpreting them. Then you also have the general stan a$$holery that comes along with it.

Advanced stats can be a useful tool, but they're not the end all be all.

 

[Rayzah]

i was cool with the sabremetrics in baseball, because of all the variables in the sport.... but advanced stats in other fukking sports are just

people started bringing up PER,PPR and TSS% in fukking sports arguments, and talking about how 1,000 yard receiving/rushing seasons isn't really an accomplishment, cause that's only 62 yards a game...and that's nothing.

then Lionel Hollins getting into it with Hollinger over fukking mathematical equations and wanting to play moneyball was when i knew that shyt had went way too far.

YES I hate this new over analyizing every 30 point game or 300 yard passing game cuz of completion % or this new QBR bullshyt.. What happened to using your eyes to tell if somebody is good or not?

 

[The War Report]

YES I hate this new over analyizing every 30 point game or 300 yard passing game cuz of completion % or this new QBR bullshyt.. What happened to using your eyes to tell if somebody is good or not?

Because your eyes can fukking deceive you. Stats corroborate what you see on the field/court. I don't know what's the problem with advanced basketball stats. It's not about scoring 30 points but how you did it.

 

[Absolut]

theres always going to be an oddball outlier, but i will always look at efg% and ts% over fg% because you simply have to factor in the difference between a 3 pt shot and a 2 pt shot. and i dont understand the hate for qbr. is it the final indicator about qb quality? no way. is it better than the archaic passer rating? far and away better. it gets shyt on due to it being associated with espn, but its way better than passer rating which was trotted out for years and years as the qb measuring stick

 

[Rayzah]

Because your eyes can fukking deceive you. Stats corroborate what you see on the field/court. I don't know what's the problem with advanced basketball stats. It's not about scoring 30 points but how you did it.

yea but being successful is not just about FG% or assist to turnover ratio, its has ALOT to do with your teammates. If you throw 15 passes 5 are missed shots and 3 are drop passes that should have been caught, then you only get credit for 7 assists, when you should have atlest 10. basically what im saying is if your teammates are fukk ups, its not your fault you cant get 10 assists, thats where your eyes come into play to determine the difference. John stockton is not a better pg than magic, but his stats say otherwise..

 

[triplehate]

yea but being successful is not just about FG% or assist to turnover ratio, its has ALOT to do with your teammates. If you throw 15 passes 5 are missed shots and 3 are drop passes that should have been caught, then you only get credit for 7 assists, when you should have atlest 10. basically what im saying is if your teammates are fukk ups, its not your fault you cant get 10 assists, thats where your eyes come into play to determine the difference. John stockton is not a better pg than magic, but his stats say otherwise..

What stat is that?
PER 24.1 .TS% .610 Efg% .533 Magic

PER 21.8 .608 .546 . Stockton

 

[Lakerman0834]

If memphis wins a ring with hollinger running the show with his stats then ill stop saying advanced stats is wack, but i doubt thatll happen

 

[Absolut]

you dont think the spurs use any analytics?

 

[MegaTronBomb!]

you dont think the spurs use any analytics?

We know they do, but i'm pretty sure nobody from their front office is gonna step to Pop and question his authority/decision making like Hollinger did Hollins.

that glorified stat boy tried to create a concrete thing out of something abstract as coaching/team chemistry cause of what the computers and algorithms tell him.

 

[Absolut]

you know why no one is going to question pop? because pop embraces them, he isnt ignorant and dismissive to them like hollins was. when your boss the gm wants to use advanced analytics to help with strategies and team building, and you just dismiss it like hollins did, then you find yourself walking out the door

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

The one thing advanced stats will never tell us is who is going to be great under intense pressure. People like to say that playing in a big market is no issue or that the playoffs are the same thing as the regular season but I disagree. I truly believe that certain players will step up in pressure situations and others will melt. To me there's a big difference between how you are hitting in May compared to how you are going to hit in a big spot in October. Some players are not built for that.