Any of yall into IFA/Santeria?

[IronFist]

Ifa basically refers to a divination system and deity by the same name commonly by The Yoruba people of Southwest Nigeria. The Mina People of the region of ToGoland its - FA. It makes its use within extensive corpus of texts/mathematical formulas. Its consulted before a child is born, marriage ceremony, king is appointed, before chief is made, within times of crisis or sickness. The method is par excellence to ascertain whether Orisas are in favor/not in favor of an undertaking among traditional Yoruba people. Linguistically the Yoruba language has undergone what is called syllable erosion overtime. The word Ifa isnt exclusive to Yoruba language and it isnt the FULL FORM of the word. The form founded within the Yoruba is the common form (CV) founded within the surrounding areas. Adegbola :


Yoruba -> ifa -> baba-l-awo (araba) -> da (fa)
Igbo -> afa/aha -> o-gbu afa -> gbu (afa)
Fon -> fa
Bini - iha
Ebira -eva
Mina - fa
urhobo -evba - > obu evba
Ngas -> peh -> go kispeh
Mossi -> poe -> poe Naba
Dogon -pey
The Historical root had a CVCV form. The historical form survives in CiBantu such as ki.bantu (divination) and Zulu mbili (oracle). The word is so widespread throughout Africa, which shows its antiquity. It can be refer to a meaning the art of divination , but also practitioner, the spirits.
Researching you'll find
Proto-Africa-Asiatic : *fa?Vl - meaning foretell
Proto-Semitic : *pV?Vl-
Meaning: foretell forune, wish evil, omen
Arabic : f?l
Epigraphic South Arabian : f?l2
Mehiri : fol 3
Harsusi : fol 3
Proto-berber : *affal 1 ~ *na-falal-2
Meaning : immunity 1, "magic speech"

Ayr: affal (immunite (contre une maladie) Aloj 38); ta-Na-falal-t 2 ('paroles magiques ayant pour but de retrover un objet egare> Aloj 141)
Tawllemmet: ta-na-falal-t-2 ('paroles magiques ayant pour but de retrouver un objet egare Aloj 141)


^^^^ this is only a couple but it to become more aware that the FORM among the Yoruba is not the oldest. It also has suffered from the loss of the 2nd syllable still found within other Cyena-Ntu languages and the CiBantu. Among the Basanga of Congo one form is called kiipa. Basanga divinatory practices arent like those that cast lots or read livers or entrails. They divine primarily thru dreams and communicating with the spirit world. Kiipa is done in order to establish whether a curse has been placed on family, which is believed to effect generations. The king is surrounded by elders & close diviners, summoning the spirit of the ancestors (the invisible living) for which a question is asked. The king goes on to ask a hunter to go hunt an animal. It has to be the 1st animal he sees. The hunter then goes on to bring the animal carcass back before the king who inspects it to see whether male/female. If female the curse is illegitimate due to the fe fact the female symbolizes life (that which is good).

 

[IronFist]

Also within ancient times the flight of birds was used to decode the message of spirit. In roman they were called auspices and with the ancient arabs this was a well-known practice. Within the Arabic its rendered as "awf - augury", ayf, aafa, 'aaf
within each of these words is from an ancient root , which in Arabic is awf . The cognate of the verb within Yoruba is fo, folo - to fly /jump. They are shortened form of the p-r/f-r root which can be seen with


NS ---> Maba ---> Mesalit ---> fir
NS NS ---> Berta ES ---> Berta Gaam --hc'rcn perd --> fly
NS NSNS NC
Es Soonghay
Saharan Dogon
Ijoid Mande Atlantic Kordo
*PN Djen- * par firri far pile fii *pi, pilpa fal(ar) abero fiile biir perr-
AA AA Proto-East-Cushytic East ---> Burji --> *bar(ar) burr-
neChiini Kanuri
BuncgeNkoro
*Pws BamanaTemne Moro
Loke Beja Awngi


Its a global term and its where you get the word fly . When birds take off in a frantic manner , often times it signals that theres danger ahead. so in that regard, the birds foretell a future by signaling to us about what is to come by their actions. This is where the association of bird flight patterns and divinations finds it conceptual binding. The bird is a messenger so to speak . Malindoma Some within his book Of Water and the Spirit, provides the reader with insight in regards to the relationship of a bird being seen as messenger among Dagara people of Burkina Faso,. He says:
"On 1 side of these hats a chameleon was brightly embroidered, the emblem of transformation and service; on the other side was a bird, which signaled a messenger. On the front of these hats was a big star, which symbolize that we were one people"
This also can be found within the D.R of Congo among the BaSanga. J. Kabamba Kiboko stated within "Divination in 1 samuel 28 & beyond: An African Study in Politics of translation , tells the reader about an experience of her as a young girl where she discussed firsthand her mothers ability to receive messages from nature thru communication through birds.

"I remember 1 story in particular about my mothers gift. I was quite young , and she and i were working out in the fields. the birds were chirping away. My mother looked up, and asked , "Did you hear that?" I replied "What?" She then started to say over and over "Mweni kintobyo", in rhythm with one bird in particular --- this type of bird. She sounded just like it. My mother then said "The bird is announcing that a guest is about to visit us. Let's go home. We went home and started cooking and preparing for these guest. Lo and behold, the guests arrived! The bird had announced their coming to my mother. My mother had the ear. I have never had it.

The bird a was a messenger and informed her mother of an event is consistent with what you would see within other parts of Africa. No coincidence "oracle" in cikam, is the same word for bird. bj3.y is a variant to the word 'stork'. This would correlate with b3 " to be a ba (-soul); to be endowed with a ba (-soul)." Essentially its a word for spirit and more specifically the spirit of an ancestor who's deceased.

 

[IronFist]

another point from my notes

Also another POINT in short (because its alot to unravel) that needs to be made: Ifa is within the Hebrew bible as ob/ov "necromancy" It is *-buk0 with the loss if the 2nd syllable. The most famous use of this word is in 1 samuel 28 regarding the so-called Witch of Endor, or Eshet Ba'alat Ov. The story goes that after disobeying YHWH's command to thoroughly slaughter the Amalekties & their liveStock (1 Samuel 15:3), Saul lost the blessing of The Most High (15:26) and the counsel of the prophet Samuel (15:34-35). In Samuel 25:1 we know Samuel in verse 15:35. On the eve of Samuel's battle against the Philistines, Saul trembled with fear. After repeating Samuel's passing burial in Ramah, verse 3 recounts that Saul hesir ha'ovot ve'et hayidonim meha'aretz, which signaled 2 events according to Ben Siegel. There was essentially a ban on divinatory practices, which was often punishable by death. In trying to understandwhy he was trembling in fear before his battle, and after using all legitimate Yahwistic means of mantic inques (i.e. , dreams, URIM/lots, prophets,etc), Saul commands his servants to bakshu'li ("seek for me" ) an eshet ba'alat ov, which was direct violation of Levitical law concerning acceptable religious practices. Because YHWH abandoned Saul, he turns "illegal" oracular methods that he himself forbidden. The diviner later conjures up Samuel and informs Saul as to why God abandoned him. What is important here is that the practice of ob/ov is associated with thaumaturgy or necromancy.


In the article "The Necromancer's Inheritance: The Ba'alat Ov of Endor in Samuel 28" discusses many different interpretations for ob/ov in Hebrew.
"Scholarship has yet to arrive at complete agreement regarding the exact nature of the hebrew noun ov. Frederick Cryer describes ov as a "famous puzzle" and concedes yidoni "has something to do with knowledge, but of what sort it is impossible to say." Albright defined ov as "ghost , shade which returns to the earth," but this doesnt necessarily hold if we translate hesir ha'ovot as "removed the ghosts". How does one remove a ghost if not by necromancy? Theodore Lewis acknowledges the linguistic ambiguity, classifying ov and yidoni as both the spirits of deceased as well their professional handlers. Citing Sumerian, Assyrian, Hittite and Ugaritic linguistic similarities, Harry Hoffner identifies ov as a pit used for ritual communication with the dead. Therefore, we are left with the impression of ba'alat ov as either "a lady with mastery over a ghost" or "a female owner of a ghost-pit." "Ghost-pit" may even be supoorted by the range of translations of for Endor; "Eye/Spring/Foutain if Generations". Although these renderings do not begin to exhaust the range of potential meanings of the referent, I find them, particularly the latter, useful in accounting for the identity and actions of the Lady in v 7-25
the term ob/ov is associated with the spirit of the deceased, as well as the handler/diviner that conjures up the spirit. fact that ob is also confused with a pit further supports our contention that ob/ov is just avariant of M-E b3:
b3 "to be a ba (-soul); to endowed with a ba (-soul)
b3.y "hole" (<b3 "to hack up (the earth); to open up")
Word ob/ov (b3 with the loss of -3) is also the word for the handler (diviner) possibly explains the inspiration behind the usage of leopard skins in Km.T via paronymy with the word b3"leopard". Noted that ob with Hebrew means "a bottle made of animal skins" (Strong's Concordance). The exhaustive concordance :
'ob : bottle, familiar spirit
From the same as'ab (apparently though the idea of prattling a father's name); properly , a mumble , i.e. A Water skin (from its hollow sound); hence a necromancer (ventriloquist, as from as jar) --- bottle, familiar spirit. Paronymy.
Ifa also ties intion MOTION as well In Cikam the Yoruba term ifa corresponds to a root pr "go up", ascend", pr.i "go,come out, escape, issue, proceed, leaving;" pr.i "to display, to show, be visible, be apparent;" pr.t "rise, emergence; pr.t "fruit, seed (in sense of offspring, prosperity),descendants." The cognate verb in Yoruba is fo, folo "to fly, to jump," with a reflex bo "to return, to arrive, to travel towards, to come;
The word hpr inCiKam conceals the p/p-r root which means to emerge,comeout,blow,breathe, ascend, escape, leave, appear, display rise"
hprr - The God hpr
hpr - Existence
hpr - The intransitive verb means; to come into being , to change, to take effect, to exist, to be.
hpr-djs.f - He who came into being on his own, "an epithet of the sun god Ra"
hpr.w - Form, configuration, ways of being, modes of existence, existence," (hpr-hpr.w: existence took effect; existence came into being
hpr.j - That which exists; the young sun god in the form of the sacred scarab
hpr.w - Living men and women (human beings) Bidge 542b*
hpr.w - Those living now
hpr.w - Children
hpr.w - Form, shape, modes of being
hpr.w - appearance
hpr - A product of fermentation
hpr.jw - Education, upbringing
hpr - Occur, happen, come to pass, exist, be, come into being, become, change (into); take place ,be effective, go by, be past, continue (of action)
hprr - Dung bettle, scarab
hpr - Not possible (to do something) ; bring about, to effect
Reflexes of hpr "change, evolution" in African languages can be seen in Zulu : weMvwelo "appearing," Dogon: bibilu "metamorphosis" , and Kikongo: ki.pura "flutter like a chicken." That hpr derives from pr can be seen in the form of word:

the h- is a prefix which in ciLuba can be k(a,i)- or ci-. In ciLuba the p/p-r verb takes on many forms and pronunciations.
Cibidi, Kabadi - form,copy,figure,mold,envelope
CidiVwile - Existence itself;
cifwatulu -form,copy,figure,mold,
cipwidi, mpwilu - end
ciVwa, mu diVwa - become
ciVwavwa -future ahead
cyuwidi - fullness
fwa (ku-) -disappear, die
KadiVwile - existent itself; Auto-Generator
KaVwidila - why we exist
mpwilu (ku-) - at the end of becoming
mvwilu - approach, processing
mVwilu (-ku) - beginning of the future/ of becoming
pwa (ku-) - be done, finished, complete, exhausted
Egyptians caught the essence of Ifa and divination in the term hpr/hprw/hprr "existence" , to become, transformation, bring about, to effect, occur, happen, come to pass, exist, be come into being, take place, be effective, go by, be past, continue (of action)". The term mvwilu/ku-mvwilu within Ciluba "approach, processing, beginning of the future", ciVwaVwa "future ahead" to the conceptualization of Ifa. Ifa informs us of why we're here on earth and when consulted on regular basis, implies to whether were on path or not concerns our destiny . be aware that the cilbua terms are variations of "hpr" of the Egyptian which is the full pronounciation of the word Ifa. This is confirmed by the Igbo word agbara "oracle of Awka districts for the northern Ibgo regions."Agbara is also a forest spirit.
Motion & flight are at the heart for words for divination can be seen in the different types of divination done in ancient times. You also have Rhabdomancy which is ----a type of divination by means of any rod, wand, staff, stick, arrow or the life. One method in rabdomancy was setting a number of staffs on end and observing where they fall, to divine the direction one should travel, or to find answers to certain questions. Belomancy, also bolomancy, is ancient art of divination by use of arrows. The word is built upon Greek "belos", "arrow,dart" and manteia "divination". Belomancy was anciently practised at least by Babylonians, Greeks, Arabs and Scythians. The word belos is a variant of f-l,p-l, b-l roots we have seen before dealing with "flight" and birds".

 

[Positive Posting]

Man I hate that shyt, Started getting it when the neighbor above my bedroom died, felt like I got dragged to hell.

Didn’t know What was happening until the next day when they took his body away.
For the next 5 years I would get it often, scariest shyt and I would always at some point open my eyes and it continued in my world. but I could never interact with it or speak out as much as I tried to beg those around me to wake up. Now I experience it like once every other year.

Its why I don't fukk with any spiritual shyt, after still feeling a hand print a day or two after an experience, im shook and im not purposefully going into that world. I pray out to the universe for strength and guidance but that’s about it.

I fukks with it but I don’t at the same time. The farthest I go is to pray, light a candle when it’s super serious and light some incense.

the other day I watching a reading on Aaliyah and it was super spooky.

 

[Sterling Archer]

My chick does. Her mom is from Peru and she was raised Peruvian so she's into it. Not excessively though so thats good.

 

[Positive Posting]

Hov and Joey Badass are into it and its working amazing for them

 

[GrindtooFilthy]

Ifa basically refers to a divination system and deity by the same name commonly by The Yoruba people of Southwest Nigeria. The Mina People of the region of ToGoland its - FA. It makes its use within extensive corpus of texts/mathematical formulas. Its consulted before a child is born, marriage ceremony, king is appointed, before chief is made, within times of crisis or sickness. The method is par excellence to ascertain whether Orisas are in favor/not in favor of an undertaking among traditional Yoruba people. Linguistically the Yoruba language has undergone what is called syllable erosion overtime. The word Ifa isnt exclusive to Yoruba language and it isnt the FULL FORM of the word. The form founded within the Yoruba is the common form (CV) founded within the surrounding areas. Adegbola :


Yoruba -> ifa -> baba-l-awo (araba) -> da (fa)
Igbo -> afa/aha -> o-gbu afa -> gbu (afa)
Fon -> fa
Bini - iha
Ebira -eva
Mina - fa
urhobo -evba - > obu evba
Ngas -> peh -> go kispeh
Mossi -> poe -> poe Naba
Dogon -pey
The Historical root had a CVCV form. The historical form survives in CiBantu such as ki.bantu (divination) and Zulu mbili (oracle). The word is so widespread throughout Africa, which shows its antiquity. It can be refer to a meaning the art of divination , but also practitioner, the spirits.
Researching you'll find
Proto-Africa-Asiatic : *fa?Vl - meaning foretell
Proto-Semitic : *pV?Vl-
Meaning: foretell forune, wish evil, omen
Arabic : f?l
Epigraphic South Arabian : f?l2
Mehiri : fol 3
Harsusi : fol 3
Proto-berber : *affal 1 ~ *na-falal-2
Meaning : immunity 1, "magic speech"

Ayr: affal (immunite (contre une maladie) Aloj 38); ta-Na-falal-t 2 ('paroles magiques ayant pour but de retrover un objet egare> Aloj 141)
Tawllemmet: ta-na-falal-t-2 ('paroles magiques ayant pour but de retrouver un objet egare Aloj 141)


^^^^ this is only a couple but it to become more aware that the FORM among the Yoruba is not the oldest. It also has suffered from the loss of the 2nd syllable still found within other Cyena-Ntu languages and the CiBantu. Among the Basanga of Congo one form is called kiipa. Basanga divinatory practices arent like those that cast lots or read livers or entrails. They divine primarily thru dreams and communicating with the spirit world. Kiipa is done in order to establish whether a curse has been placed on family, which is believed to effect generations. The king is surrounded by elders & close diviners, summoning the spirit of the ancestors (the invisible living) for which a question is asked. The king goes on to ask a hunter to go hunt an animal. It has to be the 1st animal he sees. The hunter then goes on to bring the animal carcass back before the king who inspects it to see whether male/female. If female the curse is illegitimate due to the fe fact the female symbolizes life (that which is good).

Missed this post but Igbo have their own system which is not related to ifa, it’s called odinani/odinala

no clue where you got Afa/aha from. Those translate into name. Ogbu afa means “that is the name “

 

[IronFist]

Missed this post but Igbo have their own system which is not related to ifa, it’s called odinani/odinala

no clue where you got Afa/aha from. Those translate into name. Ogbu afa means “that is the name “

Borrowing (Yoruba) in relation to linguistic and CV>VC root and way lengthier than what I post which is in part tbh.


Btw,
Already spoken on odinala elsewhere in relation to this bro. In another thread probably within the Root.


Just a note though:::

That's not the only definition of that term. a diviner is also called o-gbu afa in Igbo; to cast lots is gbu (afa). The Igbos borrowed the divination system Ifa from the Yoruba and they call it Afa and sometime aha.



° afa "divination" is common knowledge regarding Igbo. A simple search bring up a number of researches: e.g.,

Error - Cookies Turned Off

 

[KingsOfKings]

Good thread.

 

[GrindtooFilthy]

Borrowing (Yoruba) in relation to linguistic and CV>VC root and way lengthier than what I post which is in part tbh.


Btw,
Already spoken on odinala elsewhere in relation to this bro. In another thread probably within the Root.


Just a note though:::

That's not the only definition of that term. a diviner is also called o-gbu afa in Igbo; to cast lots is gbu (afa). The Igbos borrowed the divination system Ifa from the Yoruba and they call it Afa and sometime aha.



° afa "divination" is common knowledge regarding Igbo. A simple search bring up a number of researches: e.g.,

Error - Cookies Turned Off

Might be a dialect thing but divination is not afa/aha in my area of Igbo land and a Diviner is not called o-gbu afa, I understand where you’re coming from though. There are many forms of divination among Ndi Igbo not just this one

 

[IronFist]

Might be a dialect thing but divination is not afa/aha in my area of Igbo land and a Diviner is not called o-gbu afa, I understand where you’re coming from though. There are many forms of divination among Ndi Igbo not just this one

Lol You might want to to look into Comparative Methodology (Linguistics - borrowing -- sound laws as well as sound changes. Morphology/Phonetics in regards to Yoruba, IFa , Igbo etc. CV>VC root etc Thanks in advance bro.

 

[GrindtooFilthy]

Lol You might want to to look into Comparative Methodology (Linguistics - borrowing -- sound laws as well as sound changes. Morphology/Phonetics in regards to Yoruba, etc. CV>VC root etc Thanks in advance bro.

Bro I think i understand my own language to a degree. A Diviner is literally called called onye n’agb’áfa = the one who cast divination. Again Igbo is not a very centralized language and is very regional based. Don’t know where you got o-gbu afa from unless you’re speaking a dialect I never came across. I’m literally going to Nigeria this December and will go and ask the elders in my village if that’s another term for this

Edit: you can’t compare Yoruba to Igbo, Yoruba is a more complete/formal language so a few things might not translate over to Igbo very well. I’ll talk to some heads I know.

 

[IronFist]

Bro I think i understand my own language to a degree. A Diviner is literally called called onye n’agb’áfa = the one who cast divination. Again Igbo is not a very centralized language and is very regional based. Don’t know where you got o-gbu afa from unless you’re speaking a dialect I never came across. I’m literally going to Nigeria this December and will go and ask the elders in my village if that’s another term for this

i think when you quoted me you missed the entirety of the post or it something "foreign to you (for lack of better phrase). What Im dealing with this in regards to 6 languages - Hausa, Semitic, also can show this in Middle Egyptian, etc. b-n correspondences in Comparative Methodology

Edit :I never presented a complete vocabulary or grammar of the Igbo language. Not a dis to you However, what I don't do is people's homework for them. I easily found those sources for you using a basic google search and the source I used is from a Yoruba linguist who also wrote an Igbo names book and speaks Igbo. At your own leisure i think you should delve into bro. Thanks

 

[GrindtooFilthy]

i think when you quoted me you missed the entirety of the post or it something "foreign to you (for lack of better phrase). What Im dealing with this in regards to 6 languages - Hausa, Semitic, also can show this in Middle Egyptian, etc. b-n correspondences in Comparative Methodology

I understand but as I’m reading the words it doesn’t makes sense that’s why I’m asking what form/dialect is it? It comes across as incomplete to a native speaker. Taking and borrowing is fine but I need to see a complete form. That’s why I quoted your initial post because the form you posted looks incomplete

 

[Fresh]

subs