At what point did the NBA start drafting these players based on “potential” but didn’t even start or put up numbers?

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Edey is a bad example. He had a solid rookie season and was close to averaging a double double.

This is exactly what I mean by looking at box score stats too much.

In relation to what he showed in college, averaging 9 points and grabbing 8 rebounds (keep in mind he's 23) isn't good. Trying to stretch that out to averaging close to a double double doesn't do him any favors. He couldn't create for himself in the post, he struggled reading defenses and he was making the same mistakes over and over again.

I can remember this board falling over themselves to crown him during preseason when he had a couple good games and then that shyt quickly fizzled out.

Watching his games he looks nothing more than a role player.

Shot 35% from 3 when people didn't think he could shoot at all in college.

He didn't even average one 3-pt attempt. You can't use 3-pt percentage when someone averages 0.8 shots per game.

Can you please tell me how that equates to being able to shoot?

He had a better rookie season than a lot of guys that went before him. And I would argue had he been on a team like Portland, Charlotte or Washington he would have put up better numbers with no team expectations.

Reed Sheppard
Ron Holland
Tidjane Salaun
Donovan Clingan
Rob Dillingham

These guys all went ahead of Edey and were not better in Year 1.

None of those guys put up the #s Edey did in college, so it's a completely irrelevant point to reference them. Not to mention they're all considerably younger than Edey too, so they're on different trajectories. It should be expected players like Dillingham, Holland and Salaun don't set the world on fire because they're 3-4 years younger and still need to grow into their bodies and develop their skillsets.

Edey came into the league as a polished product.

 

[GoldenGlove]

This is exactly what I mean by looking at box score stats too much.

In relation to what he showed in college, averaging 9 points and grabbing 8 rebounds (keep in mind he's 23) isn't good. Trying to stretch that out to averaging close to a double double doesn't do him any favors. He couldn't create for himself in the post, he struggled reading defenses and he was making the same mistakes over and over again.

I can remember this board falling over themselves to crown him during preseason when he had a couple good games and then that shyt quickly fizzled out.

Watching his games he looks nothing more than a role player.

He didn't even average one 3-pt attempt. You can't use 3-pt percentage when someone averages 0.8 shots per game.

Can you please tell me how that equates to being able to shoot?

None of those guys put up the #s Edey did in college, so it's a completely irrelevant point to reference them. Not to mention they're all considerably younger than Edey too, so they're on different trajectories. It should be expected players like Dillingham, Holland and Salaun don't set the world on fire because they're 3-4 years younger and still need to grow into their bodies and develop their skillsets.

Edey came into the league as a polished product.

Which one is it? You can reference his stats from college, but it's off-limits to do the same for these guys 1st year in the league?

Thread literally is about drafting on potential vs more proven talent. Those guys have a real chance of never contributing anything for their teams while Edey was getting real minutes for a Playoff team. There's nothing wrong taking guys like Edey over complete mystery boxes in the lottery

 

[Jim Cornette]

When you had to start paying any random player on your team 15 million dollars a year. Teams started saying fukk that draft some dude in the first round who will do 80% of what the guy we already have does for 10 times less money over the next 4 years

Funny thing is the 1st round pick who didn't put up any numbers but got drafted anyway becomes the guy on your team making 15 million dollars a year to set screens and rebound like Steven Adams is doing

Ay nah don't do Steven Adams like that... He's a solid old school center

A 15 million dollar guy you're talking about is Vanderbilt from the Lakers




And yeah the draft fukking sucks... Usually just a consensus number 1 pick followed by a bunch of bums and eurocacs

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Which one is it? You can reference his stats from college, but it's off-limits to do the same for these guys 1st year in the league?

What I'm pointing out is -

He averaged 22/13 one season and then 25/12 the next in his last two years of college. That hasn't translated into the league. They other guys who you referenced are 3-4 years younger, so they're drafted on what they could potentially become. Who Edey is right now is essentially who he'll be going forward, or more specifically, he doesn't have a whole lot of growth as a player, not like other players who're projected to be considerably better than they are now when they reach Edey's age.

Putting up numbers in college doesn't mean shyt if that player can't dominate in the league. Nobody should be strictly going off surface stats when looking at prospects.

Thread literally is about drafting on potential vs more proven talent.

So why is it so hard for you to see that Edey isn't dominating the league like he did in college? How come someone like Castle managed to be a more impactful player in the league when he only averaged 11 ppg in college when Edey was considered the more proven talent?

Those guys have a real chance of never contributing anything for their teams while Edey was getting real minutes for a Playoff team.

Ain't no way in hell you're trying to attribute Memphis making the playoffs due to Edey's play. The Grizzlies have made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons. Or are you going to tell me if he was drafted by Charlotte they would've made the playoffs?

Not every player that got drafted before Edey will turn out to be the best version of themselves, but that's what teams drafted on - potential.

Edey has already shown he wasn't this can't-miss-prospect that all the 8 teams that drafted before he was taken somehow made a mistake. He looks destined to be a role player unless he drastically changes the makeup of his play, especially since he has a lot of shortcomings on defense that he won't ever be able to rectify.

There's nothing wrong taking guys like Edey over complete mystery boxes in the lottery

Who said that there is anything wrong with that?

You're arguing something completely different to the intention of this thread (and my original post).

 

[Trojan 24]

Have your team draft a guy with no stats and no measurables then talk to me

 

[nieman]

Probably just hoping to find the next Jokic, Brunson, Siakam etc. Most players drafted outside the lottery don't amount to much more than a role player, so they're just taking bigger risks on potential hoping to get lucky.

This. None of the suits want to be the person that "could've had Player X-Once in a Gen" so they're taking bigger swings.

Then there's the issue that they're not even looking at skills first. It's NBA size/body, athleticism, then showmanship, then how you can plug them into your system.

 

[duckbutta]

Ay nah don't do Steven Adams like that... He's a solid old school center

A 15 million dollar guy you're talking about is Vanderbilt from the Lakers




And yeah the draft fukking sucks... Usually just a consensus number 1 pick followed by a bunch of bums and eurocacs

Adams is fine. He's a backup making 13 million a year.

So you can pay Adams 13 million a year to be a backup and set screens and get rebounds. Or you can role the dice and draft Maluach and see if he can set screens and get rebounds for 4 million a year.

 

[desjardins]

No one wants to be like Hinkie who traded a future allstar on draft day only to go on and then pick two dudes who aren't even in the league anymore while Giannis was still available.
If a guy has top percentile measurables and attributes it's worth a shot even if he's raw as fukk and nobody heard of him. For a couple years you had teams picking guys just to stash them overseas
I remember when people were confused when Marvin Williams and Deon Waiters went as high lotto picks

 

[JesusFOREVER]

Dirk

 

[WesCrook]

Thon Maker Theory

 

[SchoolboyC]

It's a really simple answer

Back then there weren't really HS to pros or one and done players, it was like the NFL where basically everyone who entered the draft was a 3+ year college player. You look at the 1985 draft - Manute Bol was the only player who entered who wasn't at least a junior in college

So when you have varying degrees of ages, you have to put that into context. You can't just look at raw numbers comparing a 23 year old super senior to an 18 year old freshman. If that was the case then Nique Clifford would be seen as a better prospect than Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper.

 

[Po pimp]

It's a really simple answer

Back then there weren't really HS to pros or one and done players, it was like the NFL where basically everyone who entered the draft was a 3+ year college player. You look at the 1985 draft - Manute Bol was the only player who entered who wasn't at least a junior in college

So when you have varying degrees of ages, you have to put that into context. You can't just look at raw numbers comparing a 23 year old super senior to an 18 year old freshman

I’m not even tripping about them drafting young players. It’s the drafting of overseas players who average like 3-5ppg. Drafting college players who come off the bench as freshman but even when they were in high school, their numbers were like 12ppg and 4rpg as a senior.

 

[Rekkapryde]

The @holidayinn21 and @Gil Scott-Heroin exchanges are becoming some of my favorites on the coli

Gil and @Squirrel from Meteor Man up there too

 

[SchoolboyC]

I’m not even tripping about them drafting young players. It’s the drafting of overseas players who average like 3-5ppg. Drafting college players who come off the bench as freshman but even when they were in high school, their numbers were like 12ppg and 4rpg as a senior.

European teams, especially the top ones in the main leagues are not giving minutes to 18-19 years old like that. Luka was the exception because he was a generational talent. Even when Brandon Jennings went over there he was only averaging like 5-6 PPG

Really it depends on the context. Someone like Carter Bryant was coming off the bench only averaging a small amount of points but when you watch the film he basically fits the mold to a T of what teams want out of a 3&D wing. On the flip side you may have someone putting up huge numbers but the way their able to play on their college team won't translate to how they'll be used in the NBA

It's situational

 

[GoldenGlove]

What I'm pointing out is -

He averaged 22/13 one season and then 25/12 the next in his last two years of college. That hasn't translated into the league. They other guys who you referenced are 3-4 years younger, so they're drafted on what they could potentially become. Who Edey is right now is essentially who he'll be going forward, or more specifically, he doesn't have a whole lot of growth as a player, not like other players who're projected to be considerably better than they are now when they reach Edey's age.

Putting up numbers in college doesn't mean shyt if that player can't dominate in the league. Nobody should be strictly going off surface stats when looking at prospects.

So why is it so hard for you to see that Edey isn't dominating the league like he did in college? How come someone like Castle managed to be a more impactful player in the league when he only averaged 11 ppg in college when Edey was considered the more proven talent?

Ain't no way in hell you're trying to attribute Memphis making the playoffs due to Edey's play. The Grizzlies have made the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons. Or are you going to tell me if he was drafted by Charlotte they would've made the playoffs?

Not every player that got drafted before Edey will turn out to be the best version of themselves, but that's what teams drafted on - potential.

Edey has already shown he wasn't this can't-miss-prospect that all the 8 teams that drafted before he was taken somehow made a mistake. He looks destined to be a role player unless he drastically changes the makeup of his play, especially since he has a lot of shortcomings on defense that he won't ever be able to rectify.

Who said that there is anything wrong with that?

You're arguing something completely different to the intention of this thread (and my original post).

Stats don't matter and I'm assuming their respective usage and roles in the NBA vs college don't matter either for your argument. I say that because Edey went from being the #1 option in college and fed the ball all game long to a 4th/5th scoring option in the NBA.

You brought up college numbers/stats in this thread. Ironically enough, I pointed out their NBA stats for the rookie seasons and still, that doesn't matter... for this argument. Now you're saying Castle had more impact in the NBA... how are you quantifying that? Because he put up better surface level numbers... right? Wait? What are we doing here?

But even that is hilarious because when you pull up their advanced numbers, Edey has a higher PER and a higher Win Share



Better defensive rating, better offensive rating as well