Bernie and the Black Vote

The Watcher

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Without Nader, Florida goes to Al Gore and he wins the presidency... Simple as that.
I still remember Nader supporters justifying their vote by saying that "Bush and Gore are the same thing anyway"
Sounds familiar:patrice:

But for some reason, this board doesn't give older black people in the South the credit for knowing how to vote and it has to be because they're not familiar with Bernie. And not just any older black people in the South, but the older black people in the South who are engaged enough to vote in primary elections.

And then they wonder why their memes and videos - the ones that those same older black people in the South have seen getting thrown at the Clintons for 25 years by the worst of the racist GOP - aren't effective in changing minds.

I can't even tell who's trolling anymore here.
 

Tate

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yeah... @Swavy Karl Marx is talking out his ass right there... its one thing to be young...but what your selective interpretation of polls won't tell you is that people who were there knew what happened.

Nader cost Gore 2000.

Dude won tens of thousands of Gore votes.

Make a thread and talk about it there
 

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But for some reason, this board doesn't give older black people in the South the credit for knowing how to vote and it has to be because they're not familiar with Bernie. And not just any older black people in the South, but the older black people in the South who are engaged enough to vote in primary elections.

And then they wonder why their memes and videos - the ones that those same older black people in the South have seen getting thrown at the Clintons for 25 years by the worst of the racist GOP - aren't effective in changing minds.

I can't even tell who's trolling anymore here.
As i've said in this thread and elsewhere...Bernie was a nobody...and only made inroads after it was too late.

Hillary has been known by a generation of black people, good or bad, right or wrong.
 

No1

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But for some reason, this board doesn't give older black people in the South the credit for knowing how to vote and it has to be because they're not familiar with Bernie. And not just any older black people in the South, but the older black people in the South who are engaged enough to vote in primary elections.

And then they wonder why their memes and videos - the ones that those same older black people in the South have seen getting thrown at the Clintons for 25 years by the worst of the racist GOP - aren't effective in changing minds.

I can't even tell who's trolling anymore here.
This will be my last post on this subject because you, @wire28, others and @No_bammer_weed are going to have to come to grips with the fact that we do not have an educated populace. I always say that I can argue with anyone and discuss anything and I don't care about your perspective, but you ARE NOT entitled to your own facts. Look, the vast majority of people of any race vote more based on emotion or gut feeling than on an inspection of the economic issues. That is just facts. Most people do not pay attention.

I was not "talking down" to black people. I have been posting articles for years when you guys were conspicuously absent talking about how liberals cannot figure out why the white working class votes against their interests. Am I supposed to switch up now that it's black people? If you're talking about these other dudes, there are always radical people like that. They are in TLR, etc. Why are you paying them any mind? We have people going overboard versus people who are overly defensive. Look, this is why HIllary is winning with black voters:
From the beginning of his campaign, Bill Clinton did the opposite. Neither he nor his wife took blacks for granted, assiduously campaigning for the black vote in every possible venue. He emphasized his childhood in the segregated South and pledged to appoint blacks to high-ranking positions. In an approach that Barack Obama would mimic 16 years later, Clinton focused his efforts on black civic and community organizations, from church networks to civil rights groups. It paid off. Black voters carried Clinton through the Southern primaries and gave him the margins he needed to win the nomination.

To a large degree, Clinton’s black outreach—premised on his background and hiscultural familiarity—was symbolic. Put frankly, Clinton felt comfortable around black people and never tried to hide it. On the other hand, however, he never promised to directly address black interests and he—after winning the nomination—tried to distance himself from black activists (e.g. the “Sistah Souljah moment”). But symbolic politics is potent, and black voters stuck with Clinton through the general election.

This established a pattern, of sorts. Clinton would always rely on black voters as a base, cultivating their support and appealing to them throughout his presidency. When it suited the circumstances, however, he would distance himself. He wasn’t a fair-weather friend, but he wasn’t a reliable ally either. But what was true was the extent to which he treated black Americans as equal partners in national life. He addressed black concerns in national addresses like the State of the Union andworked with black leaders on priorities like the Crime Bill. Both Clintons made active efforts to appeal to and respect black voters, which was not the norm for American politics (although, with George W. Bush’s “compassionate conservativism,” it became the norm, at least for a moment).

All of this left a lasting impression. Black voters didn’t always agree with Clinton, but they liked and—to an extent—trusted him. When Hillary ran for Senate, she took a similar approach, working hard to build ties to New York state’s—and New York City’s—black community. And this outreach informed Bill Clinton’s (highly symbolic) decision to base his post-presidency in Harlem.

For more than 20 years, Bill and Hillary Clinton have engaged with black voters, black leaders, and black communities. They’re familiar. And when coupled with the role blacks play in the Democratic primary—stalwart voters who tend to support the safest choice—this adds up to a powerful advantage for Hillary. So much so that the only candidate to breach it—Barack Obama—had to run an almost flawless campaign, in addition to being black himself. Had Obama failed to build ties to the black political establishment—and had he failed to show his viability with wins among white Democrats—it’s not clear he would have overcome and reversed Clinton’s advantage with blacks.​
That's all there is to it. It's not "c00ning" but it's not some super advanced look at the vote either. 22% of the voters in SOuth Carolina thought Bernie Sanders was NOT LIBERAL ENOUGH. That is all you need to know. Of course black people pick the winner or better option, they always pick the safest Democratic candidate....always. It's not hard to be near the winner like that.​
 

Gusto

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Nader didnt steal anyone's votes. People who voted for Nader did it to vote for Nader. That is voting, not stealing. :stopitslime:

Jews for Buchanan, butterfly ballots, hanging chads, Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris, and the SCOTUS stole Gore's votes. :yeshrug:
 

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Nader didnt steal anyone's votes. People who voted for Nader did it to vote for Nader. That is voting, not stealing. :stopitslime:

Jews for Buchanan, butterfly ballots, hanging chads, Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris, and the SCOTUS stole Gore's votes. :yeshrug:
No dumbass...

Nader gathered moderates and disaffected democrat votes from Gore.
 

GoddamnyamanProf

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Blacks are hardly "misinformed". The black vote has gotten every presidential hopeful right for decades. Were we better off with Dukakis or Bush Sr? Clinton or Bush Sr./Dole? Better off with Gore/Kerry or Bush Jr.? Better off with Obama or McCain/Romney? Odd that voters who are apparently so poorly informed are so consistently accurate in their selections.

While faith is important to black folks, our voting pattern clearly demonstrates that we distinguish our faith and social leanings from our vote. If not, then blacks would be hypnotized by the "party of Jesus", the GOP, and fall sway to the evangelical pandering of right wingers.

The black vote centers on economics, and is consistent with the global community who understand the importance of a strong social safety net and how it is an inequality suppressor and mobility stimulator. Black folks dont believe in tax cuts for the wealthy paying for themselves, and that wealth will trickle down if we give in to each and every demand of the ruling class. Blacks have voted against the body politic that has created such vast gulfs in wealth and power.

So then you ask, why arent black folks rallying around Sanders who promises to dismantle the system?

Black folks have 20/20 when it comes to common sense. Not idealism. Black folks understand that next to muslim, poll after poll suggests that the "socialist" label carries the highest negatives in the minds of the American voter when it comes to candidates. So how plausible is a Sanders presidency? If he emerged from the primaries, he would be very vulnerable to the republican offering. Are black folks willing to gamble?

On a somewhat smaller scale, this is what happened in 2000. Liberals went for the more ideologically pure option in Nader, and opened us to Bush who cratered the economy, sent black folks off to fight an illegal war, and allowed NYC to get blown up. Black folks dont want a liberal white savior, they just dont want to lose it all.

And even if Sanders did somehow manage to win the presidency...what then?? You think the republican house is going to cooperate with a socialist? The same group of jackals that shut down the govt. and fukked up our credit rating over centrist policies? How does Sanders address this? By saying nebulous, mythical nonsense about starting a "political revolution" within the house....How is this realistic?

The working theory here is that Sanders wins on the issues, but Clinton is the plausible candidate. Im not going to turn this post into a clinton commercial, but she's poised, experienced, can handle herself, and promises to continue the steady, stable leadership from the Obama admin. Her platforms have become more progressive and refined, she understand the national and global political game, and she has gone on record rejecting some of the policies of her husband that have resulted in anti-black consequences.

All Im saying is there are solid reasons to vote for Clinton in the minds of the voter, outside of the condescending racist explanations Ive read in this thread.

When it come to Sanders v Clinton is the Rolling Stones line: "Cant always get what you want..but if you try sometimes...you get what you need"
Valient effort to make the issue more nuanced than it actually, sadly is, except all pertinent information says the opposite. Bernie polls better against the repubs, all of them, than Hillary does, and that has been the case for awhile now.

The fact of the matter is that if you look at EITHER the polls OR if you vote strictly on the issues, there is no reason a progressive-minded individual would choose Hillary over Bernie, which is why some Sanders supporters are frustrated.
 
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Gusto

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No dumbass...

Nader gathered moderates and disaffected democrat votes from Gore.

And Bush gathered "I want to have a beer with him" votes from Gore. Either way, the voter did not select Gore, and that is the voter's prerogative. That is free will and democracy. Get over it.

Are you proposing that we should be deprived of third party choices altogether? How should this work, genius? What sort of fascist solution do you have for voters picking their favored candidate when it doesn't suit your personal agenda?
 

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And Bush gathered "I want to have a beer with him" votes from Gore. Either way, the voter did not select Gore, and that is the voter's prerogative. That is free will and democracy. Get over it.

Are you proposing that we should be deprived of third party choices altogether? How should this work, genius? What sort of fascist solution do you have for voters picking their favored candidate when it doesn't suit your personal agenda?
Thats not the discussion.

The discussion is third party candidates with not even congressional backing splitting electorates just to pretend to have any viable future leading the government.

I'm not against additional parties...i'm against people pushing third parties at a presidential level and not a congressional level.
 

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63% of the black voters in Georgia were over 45. The most reliable Southern black voters are churchgoing women. Sanders is not out there hitting them with speeches about faith and he is not tapped into that church network. That is your answer. Sanders needed black pastors to win, and that's his issue. Crazy as it seems, he would've done well to get Al Sharpton on his side and have him persuade other pastors. Sanders campaign manager (for black people) decided to focus on young black people instead and therein lies his issue. Black women voted at a higher rate than anyone during the last election, and he needed them in the South. He needs a new black outreach leader with religious ties.
Is Al Sharpton pro HIllary? I thought he met with Bernie
 

Gusto

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i'm against people pushing third parties at a presidential level

:scust: You have some twisted, anti-democratic views. If some rinky-dink party fukks up your whole shyt, you didn't deserve to win. I voted for Gore, but not for one moment did I blame a Nader voter or Nader himself. Gore just didn't get it done.

Anyways, Bernie is in the Democratic primary, so this whole Nader thing is not at all analogous.
 

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:scust: You have some twisted, anti-democratic views. If some rinky-dink party fukks up your whole shyt, you didn't deserve to win. I voted for Gore, but not for one moment did I blame a Nader voter or Nader himself. Gore just didn't get it done.

Anyways, Bernie is in the Democratic primary, so this whole Nader thing is not at all analogous.
Ralph nader couldn't win more than two states...i'd say he fukked Al Gore over.

And at no point did I say Nader voters were wrong...but they DID fukk Al Gore over.

Period.
 

ThaRealness

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So then you ask, why arent black folks rallying around Sanders who promises to dismantle the system?

Black folks have 20/20 when it comes to common sense. Not idealism. Black folks understand that next to muslim, poll after poll suggests that the "socialist" label carries the highest negatives in the minds of the American voter when it comes to candidates. So how plausible is a Sanders presidency? If he emerged from the primaries, he would be very vulnerable to the republican offering. Are black folks willing to gamble?

On a somewhat smaller scale, this is what happened in 2000. Liberals went for the more ideologically pure option in Nader, and opened us to Bush who cratered the economy, sent black folks off to fight an illegal war, and allowed NYC to get blown up. Black folks dont want a liberal white savior, they just dont want to lose it all.

And even if Sanders did somehow manage to win the presidency...what then?? You think the republican house is going to cooperate with a socialist? The same group of jackals that shut down the govt. and fukked up our credit rating over centrist policies? How does Sanders address this? By saying nebulous, mythical nonsense about starting a "political revolution" within the house....How is this realistic?

The working theory here is that Sanders wins on the issues, but Clinton is the plausible candidate. Im not going to turn this post into a clinton commercial, but she's poised, experienced, can handle herself, and promises to continue the steady, stable leadership from the Obama admin. Her platforms have become more progressive and refined, she understand the national and global political game, and she has gone on record rejecting some of the policies of her husband that have resulted in anti-black consequences.

All Im saying is there are solid reasons to vote for Clinton in the minds of the voter, outside of the condescending racist explanations Ive read in this thread.

When it come to Sanders v Clinton is the Rolling Stones line: "Cant always get what you want..but if you try sometimes...you get what you need"

Thats kinda what I was thinking. I think black folks have significantly less faith in our political system as an avenue for large scale change.
 

NZA

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the black vote is one of the most "established" voting blocs in the country. and by that i mean it is heavily tied to the democrat establishment for very practical reasons. barring a viable black candidate like obama, a candidate had best work with the black establishment for a few years before trying to cash in. bernie only became a democrat to run for president. his people should have known that they would need a map to victory that didnt run through the south.
 
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