Better PG/PF combo: JKidd & KMart or CP3 & Blake

[I.AM.PIFF]

Nope

You think they beating the Lakers/Spurs/Mavs/Kings in 02 or 03?

 

[eastside313]

so my boys were that duo, Robert Horry the only reason Nash don't have a ring... that's why I'm like Fucc Robert Horry for life, hip checkin bish...

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Nope

Spoken like somebody that only watched Nets games.

 

[No Homo]

Superior rebounding - other than rattling off the numbers, what can you tell me about Kidd's rebounding and what effect it had on the game?

I got a case load.

Breh your better than that

Kidds rebounding is what sparked those nets fast breaks. That teams strength was in its running and defense (which rebounding is a part of)

 

[No Homo]

Jason Kidd did a lot of things that didn't show up on the stat sheet.


They had Stephon Marbury the year before putting up like 22/8 on 44% shooting and how well they do?

Marbury played with a totally different team that season

 

[Frump]

Blake is much better then Kenyon.

Most of Kenyons points were alley oops from Kidd but in the half court when he had to create on his own Kenyon was not very good

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Breh your better than this

Kidds rebounding is what sparked those nets fast breaks. That teams strength was in its running and defense (which rebounding is a part of)

Is he an all-time great PG? Yeah but that's mostly because he played in the league for nearly 20 seasons and benefited from playing during a certain period where the backdrop of the position was more traditional. If he began his career over the last few seasons he wouldn't be a top 5 PG in the league today because he wouldn't get away with dominating the ball in the fashion he did while putting up average scoring #s on horrific shooting percentages while orchestrating middle-of-the-pack offenses.

2001/02 Nets - 17th ranked offfense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2002/03 Nets - 18th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2003/04 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2004/05 Nets - 26th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2005/06 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2006/07 Nets - 16th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2007/08 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)

Every season he was in New Jersey dominating the ball, they had average to one of the worst offenses, season in season out - that's not the mark of a GREAT floor general - that's the mark of player whose suffocation on possessions and inability to be a reliable scorer and a threat as one (he averaged 14.4 points per game on 39.4% shooting during his seven-season stay in NJ) limited those Nets teams on what they could do offensively.

The success that team had was all down to their team defense and playing in the Eastern conference, during its weakest period.

And to follow on from that @GoddamnyamanProf, over those seven seasons in NJ, these were the points he produced per 100 possessions:

103 (ranked 40th amongst all point guards)
106 (ranked 28th amongst all point guards)
102 (ranked 32nd amongst all point guards)
107 (ranked 28th amongst all point guards)
110 (ranked 18th amongst all point guards)
111 (ranked 15th amongst all point guards)
101 (ranked 46th amongst all point guards)

So for all this 'floor general' rhetoric that's shrouded in nostalgia, the numbers he was producing were actually your typical run-of-the-mill PG, not this great, all-encompassing, visionary PG that he was made out to be.

There's no two ways about it, Kidd hindered the offense of that team. For all those 'empty' rebounds he grabbed to initiate the offense, he did a pretty shytty job.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Marbury played with a totally different team that season

The Nets would've been a better team if Marbury stayed in NJ (instead of Kidd). Injuries fukked them in 2000.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Lakers and Spurs were obviously better. Mavs and Kings were so much better offensively and had more wins record-wise. Then teams like Portland-Utah-Minnesota who were on NJ's level in terms of team record. All in that conference.

Not sure how you could argue the Nets being flat out better than any of the teams listed they relied on defense and a relatively slow pace. Granted Kidd was their best all-around player and was insanely valuable to them but that doesn't make them better than at least 5 teams in the WC.

If they were in the West, this thread wouldn't have even been created. Kidd would've been a footnote amongst all the all-time great PGs.

 

[Edub]

J Kidd/K Mart ...they made it to the finals...cp3 and Blake have yet to reach such heights

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

J Kidd/K Mart ...they made it to the finals...cp3 and Blake have yet to reach such heights

And the smart dumb comments keep on coming.....

 

[Roland Coltrane]

@Tunez @NoHateLeftBehind @MJ Truth

Care to explain the bold.

He played with shytty players

 

[No Homo]

There's no two ways about it, Kidd hindered the offense of that team. For all those 'empty' rebounds he grabbed to initiate the offense, he did a pretty shytty job.

That teams offense was its defense those 2 final year runs. Not one player on that team could create their own shot. All they had was to rebound and push the ball and play D. Not having a real scorer killed them esp against SA that second year. His rebounding was to push the ball..he didnt rebound to initiate and dribble dribble ala cp3(and i love chris paul) ..he knew the team stregths...now tell me who he is setting up with these 2 rosters..its amazing they got as far as they did..but it was their defense that did it for them.

1 Brandon Armstrong
35 Jason Collins
10 Derrick Dial
54 Steve Goodrich
12 Lucious Harris
24 Richard Jefferson
8 Anthony Johnson
5 Jason Kidd
30 Kerry Kittles
11 Todd MacCulloch
13 Donny Marshall
6 Kenyon Martin
21 Brian Scalabrine
50 Reggie Slater
44 Keith Van Horn
34 Aaron Williams


1 Jason Kidd
2 Richard Jefferson
3 Kenyon Martin
4 Lucious Harris
5 Kerry Kittles
6 Jason Collins
7 Aaron Williams
8 Rodney Rogers
9 Anthony Johnson
10 Brian Scalabrine
11 Dikembe Mutombo
12 Tamar Slay
13 Chris Childs
14 Brandon Armstrong
15 Donny Marshall

 

[Roland Coltrane]

There's no two ways about it, Kidd hindered the offense of that team. For all those 'empty' rebounds he grabbed to initiate the offense, he did a pretty shytty job.

They had an identity as a defensive minded team, not an offensive juggernaut, and really had a style of play that suited the personnel for that
It's rare to have a team be upper echelon on both sides of the ball

I can't honestly blame Kidd for the team identity
What about the offensive ranks of the other teams he played for?
The Mavs, Suns, etc...?

 

[No Homo]

The Nets would've been a better team if Marbury stayed in NJ (instead of Kidd). Injuries fukked them in 2000.

You're not gonna do that to me breh..nope nooo not falling for it...

Spoiler

i wish i couldve seen steph with that team