Boxing's Most Underrated Fighters (Past and Present)
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you think Reid was underrated? :thinkin:
just not sure how you could say that about SRL though. clearly not the fighter SRR was. didnt fight that many fights compared to a lot of other greats or his peers like Hearns, Duran, Hagler. struggled with boxers. admittedly lost to Hearns in the rematch. SRL just had a brilliantly marketed career. When other fighters from their era's talk about them you will see they say that SRL and his predecessor Ali were overrated fighters. It sounds blasphemous almost but that is the general opinion amongst their peers. Ray was great but he did struggle in his career and he didnt fight some of the top guys that he could have...like Pryor, Curry, etc. I know its business and that was his strategy....but P4P he doesnt stack up to me to a guy like Pernell Whitaker. clearly he gets most of his status for beating guys he was an underdog against like Hearns and Hagler. same as Ali did with Liston and Foreman.
I do however respect your stance on SRL and Charles.
i think when ray had that detached retina and took that long break and moved up to comeback this time as a middleweight he was clearly a lesser fighter yet peak ray leonard at welterweight was truly a monster. people look back and remember hearns as being the big puncher of that era at welterweight but peak ray leonard had some of the biggest knockouts ever in that division ray was just destroying these guys. peak ray had arguably the fastest hands ever, fast feet, arguably the greatest finisher ever, one punch knockout power in both fists, never stopped in his peak only ever knocked down for the first time when he came back for his second career after he sustained the detached retina. if we were to sit down and try to create and put together the best fighter on paper i think what we would end up with is a fighter that basically is a version of what ray leonard was at welterweight. ray had a short career but at his peak he beat up some great fighters you say whitaker is a better fighter pound for pound but the guys ray fought and beat were bigger wins than any of the guys whitaker fought and beat and if you were to swap their weltwerweight careers at their peak i think ray beats up guys like julio cesar chavez and buddy mcgirt. the question always comes up how would a ray and pryor fight look and i dont understand how pryor wins that fight at all. pryor was a guy who got big from knocking out a great fighter alexis arguello and a very good fighter antonio cervantes at the ends of their careers they started their careers in the 60's and fought pryor in the 80's they were old men when pryor got them.
yeah i liked reid a lot kind of fought and looked like a charley burley. he was not great seemed a little scared to let his hands go but i think he could have fought and beat some good fighters at jmw like de la hoya, vargas etc
early in the Tito fight he looked to be on his way to stardom....
I always rank Whitaker higher because he was un-hittable in his prime and barely lost rounds much less struggled with anyone. His fights were shutouts. At WW SRL was better, but WW was SRL prime weight while Whitaker prime weight was 135. He only went up for money and was still very very good. Leonard did get wins over bigger names....but so many people thought he lost against Hagler. Many think he lost against Hearns in the 2nd fight. His best wins have to be Benitez and Hearns. When you talk Pryor beat old men, keep in mind, Arguello and Duran were the same age when they fought Pryor and Leonard. Leonard lost however.
Whitaker also wasnt a mega star due to his style....and for that reason he was on the wrong end of some decisions whereas SRL benefited from.
Pryor's swarming style would give SRL problems, plus he had a rock jaw. Excellent amateur pedigree with an unorthodox style. Pryor could box and was very accurate despite looking like he was all over the place.
The retirement hurt him, but you have to take that into consideration too. He was that big PPV star so he was likely only gonna fight once or twice a year during that absence. SRL is a great no doubt. Not quite sure I would put him in my top 10 though.
Reggie Johnson
Prince Charles Williams
Frankie Liles
Prince Charles Williams
Frankie Liles
i think you can make a strong argument that pernell whitaker at his peak was the best fighter ever pound for pound so i dont disagree. but i think ray at his peak was better. ray lost to roberto duran but duran was one of the best fighters ever. fighters who fight the best have losses on their record. ezzard charles had several losses on his record yet he probably has the best resume ever in all of boxing. ray robinson had several losses but he was fighting great fighters. ray leonard faced and beat some of the best welterweights ever. you said you could name 10 fighters that are pound for pound better than ray leonard but theres no way i could even try to do that. there are only two guys that stand out right away to me that you could try to argue as better pound for pound which are ray robinson based on the logic that he was the perfect fighter and pernell whitaker based on the logic that he was the perfect defensive fighter. ray leonard was a huge puncher and a great boxer and he fought and beat all time greats theres not too many fighters that can match this. i dont think pryor would beat ray and any scenario that has pryor beating ray to me is more of wishful thinking because theres no way i think you could look at pryor as a favorite in that fight. he would be moving up to a higher weight at 5 foot 6 to fight arguably the best welterweight ever in ray leonard who was five foot 10 and where ray fought and beat fighters like roberto duran and tommy hearns and took their best shots we dont know how pryor would and i dont believe he could eat the kind of shots he was eating against alexis arguello against ray leonard or how he would deal with the kind of movement ray leonard had. ray was a much bigger puncher than arguello and a better boxer. theres nobody on pryor's record that you could point to and look at and compare to the level of ray leonard. in reality that would be a huge step up for pryor going into that fight. if you want to say pryor beats him i think you would have to at least acknowledge it as being a big upset based on pryor being a tough style for anybody to fight. but thats more wishful thinking than it is logic.
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This is on point
He always looked awful. I still feel that first Mormeck fight was one of the biggest upsets I've ever seen. Mormeck had some serious momentum going at that time. Bell controlled that entire fight. Unbelievable performance
but then a lot of fighters looked good against tito early...the beating that reid took later in the fight was terrible
..he never recovered from that fight..but hey thats what happens when you rush to cash out an inexperienced fighter
but then a lot of fighters looked good against tito early...the beating that reid took later in the fight was terrible
I dont fault Reid's team in that instance though. They were rushing for a reason.....that eye. He was as ready as he ever was gonna be for Tito. He had the game plan. Just got caught. It was a risk worth taking I would say. After that fight though, people targeted that eye.
Bell had a great deal of speed and power. It was his reflexes that saved him a lot of times though. He could slip punches from guys like Mormeck. Those guys that pretty much swung for the fences. Bell was basically a top notch athlete....because boxing wise...he was one of the worst looking cruisers at that time. He made me a fan with a lot of his come from behind KOs. Proved you could never count him out.
it wasn't just the eye..dude was messed up after tito..psychologically and physically...uncoordinated mess add to the fact that 160 was not the division for him
Yes, it would be an upset. Pryor would be the underdog for sure. I always said Pryor couldve beaten SRL. I wouldnt say he flat out would though. I just think his style, was a handful for anyone to deal with. Pryor was one of those guys like Toney though. You just couldnt mentally dissuade him. Of course SRL TKO of Hearns was one of the greatest mental efforts we have ever seen. When it comes to P4P, it really comes down to what you give points for and take away for. I just think SRL's shortened career hurts him along with the fact he left some fights on the table. He definitely could be in my top 10, and likely would be, but I rate guys like Armstrong and Louis higher. Duran and Whitaker fit in there somewhere as well for me. SRL wouldnt be that far out of the top 10 though....definitely top 15 for me. You know how that goes though....some people dont even rank Ezzard Charles in their top 20. I always rank Hagler pretty high on my list because once he peaked, he withstood some of the fiercest challenges from Duran, Hearns, and Mugabi. He was fearless.
That's my step-brother. I'll agree that the Tito fight took a lot out of him, mentally and physically. He had the tools, but that eye was just too much. Even if he had beat Tito, he still would've had a brief career. He used to regularly get surgery to cosmetically repair that droopy eyelid. He also had a detached retina.