Brandy Verzuz Monica *Poll Added*

[BmoreGorilla]

That's the only difference. It's Mary Hip-Hop ft. That's it. Not enough to smash.

You're looking at strictly from a Hip-Hop perspective.

I’m not looking at it strictly from a hip hop perspective at all. Strictly music and Mary has the more timeless music that resonates with us. All of Toni’s music was slow or mid tempo. Mary did all that plus fast shyt

 

[African Peasant]

I’m not looking at it strictly from a hip hop perspective at all. Strictly music and Mary has the more timeless music that resonates with us. All of Toni’s music was slow or mid tempo. Mary did all that plus fast shyt

THis is not timeless? :








If this is not timeless, what is timeless? People still listen to these songs and Toni still tours with them.
Toni two first albums are female RnB perfection.

They both have timeless music. Mary had just put out more music.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

THis is not timeless? :








If this is not timeless, what is timeless? People still listen to these songs and Toni still tours with them.
Toni two first albums are female RnB perfection.

They both have timeless music. Mary had just put out more music.

My point is Mary has more timeless music which is a factor in these things. And that’s not taking anything away from Toni at all but she ain’t on Mary’s level

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Not gonna cry ain't beating Unbreak my heart.


Toni has sold more albums than Mary, has more top 5 singles than Mary, and he's still touring like Mary but she would be smashed by Mary? Not lose but smashed?

who cares that toni sold more, she crossed over as deacon frye already said. she was dominating r&b and pop charts while mary was really only hitting with black people. toni starts running out of heat after her second album, mary had 4-5 albums before she even slightly faltered, let alone the heat she had in the 00's (breakthrough & growing pains), features, and the fact young people are still sampling her songs.

toni is a relic of the 90's, mary defined a whole lane of r&b in the 90's and 00's so much so puff had to run and get him a faith, keyshia cole spun out from that lane, etc

edit: and this isn't taking from toni's success, impact nor talent, but mary has the hometown hero type love from a the people who's be watching verzuz as opposed to toni just being that superstar from some other team that you have to acknowledge their talent, but the love aint as deep

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Toni two first albums are female RnB perfection.
.

and what's the 411? and my life aren't?

 

[BmoreGorilla]

who cares that toni sold more, she crossed over as deacon frye already said. she was dominating r&b and pop charts while mary was really only hitting with black people. toni starts running out of heat after her second album, mary had 4-5 albums before she even slightly faltered, let alone the heat she had in the 00's (breakthrough & growing pains), features, and the fact young people are still sampling her songs.

toni is a relic of the 90's, mary defined a whole lane of r&d in the 90's and 00's so much so puff had to run and get him a faith, keyshia cole spun out from that lane, etc

I don’t think some people realize how much of an icon Mary really is

 

[African Peasant]

who cares that toni sold more, she crossed over as deacon frye already said. she was dominating r&b and pop charts while mary was really only hitting with black people. toni starts running out of heat after her second album, mary had 4-5 albums before she even slightly faltered, let alone the heat she had in the 00's (breakthrough & growing pains), features, and the fact young people are still sampling her songs.

toni is a relic of the 90's, mary defined a whole lane of r&d in the 90's and 00's so much so puff had to run and get him a faith, keyshia cole spun out from that lane, etc

Toni was hitting black and white. Is it a flaw now? Her two first are albums are black music. They are RnB. She just had the international appeal that MJ Blige did not have. Mary in the 90's had her Hip-Hop and Rnb lane she crated. She did not define female 90's RnB.

Mary ran the 00's. Il already said it. But she did not run the 90's and she wasn't bigger than Toni's in the 90's. Toni dominated Pop AND RnB charts.

Young people are sampling her songs? What a surprise... It's normal, she had plat albums in the 00's so they relate to her music because ir's closer. Young people of tomorrow won't.

and what's the 411? and my life aren't?

Toni first two are untouchable from a female RnB perspective, especially the first.

What's 411 is a classic album but it's a crossover between RnB and Hip-Hop.

My point is Mary has more timeless music which is a factor in these things. And that’s not taking anything away from Toni at all but she ain’t on Mary’s level

That's what I said; Mary made more music.

But acting like Mary J put out better music than Toni and Toni was some pop act. Cmon.

 

[Kliq_Souf]

Mary J is unbeatable in a Verzuz by any female R&B artist living...
She has too many jams and can go in her slow anthem, hiphop remix, or party anthem bag

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Toni was hitting black and white. Is it a flaw now? Her two first are albums are black music. They are RnB. She just had the international appeal that MJ Blige did not have. Mary in the 90's had her Hip-Hop and Rnb lane she crated. She did not define female 90's RnB.

Mary ran the 00's. Il already said it. But she did not run the 90's and she wasn't bigger than Toni's in the 90's. Toni dominated Pop AND RnB charts.

Young people are sampling her songs? What a surprise... It's normal, she had plat albums in the 00's so they relate to her music because ir's closer. Young people of tomorrow won't.



Toni first two are untouchable from a female RnB perspective, especially the first.

What's 411 is a classic album but it's a crossover between RnB and Hip-Hop.




That's what I said; Mary made more music.

But acting like Mary J put out better music than Toni and Toni was some pop act. Cmon.

Mary was putting out better music tho which is why she’s held in a higher regard than Toni. Toni was the shyt in the 90s no doubt but she’s a relic at this point

 

[African Peasant]

Mary was putting out better music tho which is why she’s held in a higher regard than Toni. Toni was the shyt in the 90s no doubt but she’s a relic at this point

Mary was not putting better music. Mary albums are not superior to Toni's two first albums. Maybe equal. Superior? Nope.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Toni was hitting black and white. Is it a flaw now? Her two first are albums are black music. They are RnB. She just had the international appeal that MJ Blige did not have. Mary in the 90's had her Hip-Hop and Rnb lane she crated. She did not define female 90's RnB.

Mary ran the 00's. Il already said it. But she did not run the 90's and she wasn't bigger than Toni's in the 90's. Toni dominated Pop AND RnB charts.

Young people are sampling her songs? What a surprise... It's normal, she had plat albums in the 00's so they relate to her music because ir's closer. Young people of tomorrow won't.



Toni first two are untouchable from a female RnB perspective, especially the first.

What's 411 is a classic album but it's a crossover between RnB and Hip-Hop.




That's what I said; Mary made more music.

But acting like Mary J put out better music than Toni and Toni was some pop act. Cmon.

no one said it's a flaw to crossover, but bringing up sales or crossover appeal don't matter in these cases when the discussion is around their reception from black people. and mary definitely ran the 90's, what are you talking about? you couldn't discuss 90's r&b and not have mary as part of the conversation

re: toni's albums being untouchable - that's your opinion, they were great, but mary, mariah, badu and janet all put up back to backs that hit just as hard or harder front to back.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Mary was not putting better music. Mary albums are not superior to Toni's two first albums. Maybe equal. Superior? Nope.

Hell yea they are superior. Mary changed the game

 

[African Peasant]

no one said it's a flaw to crossover, but bringing up sales or crossover appeal don't matter in these cases when the discussion is around their reception from black people. and mary definitely ran the 90's, what are you talking about? you couldn't discuss 90's r&b and not have mary as part of the conversation

re: toni's albums being untouchable - that's your opinion, they were great, but mary, mariah, badu and janet all put up back to backs that hit just as hard or harder front to back.

Being in the discussion is running the era now?

And you could have a discussion about RnB in the 90's without mentioning Toni? When?

Mary was in the convo like Toni, Maria, or Janet. Mary was not seen as the hegemon of RnB back then. You're talking about the 00's.

What you"re saying are also opinions. So what's your point?

Being untouchable does not mean they are the best albums, it means they are in the most elevate category. They are perfect, like other albums in the 90's. But it can't get higher.

Hell yea they are superior. Mary changed the game

She changed by incorporating Hip-Hop. It does not make them better and they are not. They are in the same tier. Better? No.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Being in the discussion is running the era now?

And you could have a discussion aout RnB in the 90's without mentionning Toni? When?

Mary was in the convo like Toni, Maria, or Janet. Mary was not seen as the hegemon of RnB back then. You're talking about the 00's.

What you"re saying are also opinions. So what's your point?

Being untouchable does not mean they are the best albums, it means they are in the most elevate category. They are perfect, like other albums in the 90's. But it can't get higher.

no one said that either, nothing about the 90's was about just "one", you're bringing that 2010's bullshyt into the equation. there was a crew of women who ran 90's r&b, mary was definitely one, and of course she's the queen of her lane within r&b - hip hop soul. how you pioneer a lane and then not be considered a person who ran the decade?

janet - pop/r&b
whitney, mariah, toni - pop/adult contemporary/r&b
erykah - neo soul
mary - hip hop soul
brandy/monica/aaliyah/mya - ran teen r&b

people had different lanes but were all running the decade


as to your last sentence, you're just talking to talk at this point. mary beats toni in a verzuz hands down, that's what this convo started about and that's where i'll end it.

 

[African Peasant]

no one said that either, nothing about the 90's was about just "one", you're bringing that 2010's bullshyt into the equation. there was a crew of women who ran 90's r&b, mary was definitely one, and of course she's the queen of her lane within r&b - hip hop soul. how you pioneer a lane and then not be considered a person who ran the decade?

janet - pop/r&b
whitney, mariah, toni - pop/adult contemporary/r&b
erykah - neo soul
mary - hip hop soul
brandy/monica/aaliyah/mya - ran teen r&b

people had different lanes but were all running the decade


as to your last sentence, you're just talking to talk at this point. mary beats toni in a verzuz hands down, that's what this convo started about and that's where i'll end it.

"mary definitely ran the 90's, what are you talking about? you couldn't discuss 90's r&b and not have mary as part of the conversation"

This is what you said You clearly said Mary RAN the 90's, which is false.

As you said now, she was among the dominating forces, along with Toni and a few elite singers.

Nope, this convo started because someone implied that Mary was bigger than Toni in the 90's, which is wrong.

The only person that can claim that running shyt by himself since the 90's is Kellz.