BREXIT - June 23rd 2016 vote - *ARTICLE 50 TRIGGERED!*

[88m3]

TBH none of this is really surprising tbh, for a European as myself

That's what one of my English friends said...

 

[Scoop]

they could have a general election before 2020 though

I'm sure they will, but chances are Cameron will drop in Sept or Oct. before they hold an election.

 

[88m3]

I'm sure they will, but chances are Cameron will drop in Sept or Oct. before they hold an election.

He's already said as much, I doubt they get much done this summer.

 

[mbewane]

Yep, there's no general election required until 2020 even if Cameron resigns today.

Prime Minister is simply the leader of the majority party. Whether Cameron is PM or not, Conservatives hold a majority. Members of parliament of the majority party vote on Prime Minister.

Oh ok, my bad...

That's a huge difference with most systems I kind of know (France-Belgium-Italy basically), once you're at that PM/President seat you represent the whole country, so if you resign well the WHOLE process starts anew, because if you resign in that position it basically means a big shift in political opinions has happened...interesting, but in this case I gotta admit I understand more Johnson not running, I guess he knew he wasn't gonna win an INTERNAL election and he didn't want to hold that L.

 

[Scoop]

Oh ok, my bad...

That's a huge difference with most systems I kind of know (France-Belgium-Italy basically), once you're at that PM/President seat you represent the whole country, so if you resign well the WHOLE process starts anew, because if you resign in that position it basically means a big shift in political opinions has happened...interesting, but in this case I gotta admit I understand more Johnson not running, I guess he knew he wasn't gonna win an INTERNAL election and he didn't want to hold that L.

Spain has pretty much the same system as the UK.

But yeah, it's not a coincidence Gove announced the same day Boris said no. Gove or Theresa May was going to beat Boris among Conservative Party parliament members easy.

I mean look at May's resume

Theresa May - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[hashmander]

Hmm not really, it would be more like if there was a vote to join the North American Union North American Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Would you vote yes to joining a hypothetical North American Union?

Joining a hypothetical NAU is saying that you are giving up sovereignty to a joint commission made up of Americans, Canadians and Mexicans, there would be open borders between all three countries and there would be 3 official languages

That's basically what the EU is

how could it be like something that doesn't exist. britain in the EU exists/existed. they voted for it to not exist anymore. america as 50 states exists.

anyway a north american union is beneficial to canada and mexico, but not america and that's why it will never exist. the EU was financially and geopolitically beneficial to the UK.

finally, the example in my post was about allowing people to vote to do something self destructive. a vote to break up america could possibly win if it were put to a vote.

 

[Scoop]

^Not sure it would be beneficial to Canada either tbh. Mexico would be caking though.

 

[hashmander]

I understand the situation between Scotland and Catalonia aren't identical but the point still stands, it's not a good look for the continent for the EU to be rewarding separatist movements with membership. It doesn't lend itself to stability of the continent.

They EU may very well let Scotland in, that doesn't mean Spain and any other country dealing with separatist movements aren't right for protesting it.

Remember, Scotland tried to break away before Brexit but it failed. Should the EU let them in if they break away after Brexit but not if they had broken away before?

Full disclosure: I'm biased because I have family from/in Spain and they don't want to see Catalonia break away.

the key part you're leaving out is that it would be rewarding separatist movements in countries that have said fukk you to the EU. in 2014 the EU told scotland to fall back and EU membership wasn't in the cards if they voted for independence. if spain or anyone else is scared then the EU can simply make it law that if a separatist country breaks of an EU member then that country will not be admitted or have the rights and privileges of EU affiliation.

 

[theworldismine13]

how could it be like something that doesn't exist. britain in the EU exists/existed. they voted for it to not exist anymore. america as 50 states exists.

anyway a north american union is beneficial to canada and mexico, but not america and that's why it will never exist. the EU was financially and geopolitically beneficial to the UK.

finally, the example in my post was about allowing people to vote to do something self destructive. a vote to break up america could possibly win if it were put to a vote.

the people never voted to be in the EU, thats the point

the point that im getting at is that 52% of the british public looks at the EU the same way an american would look at the NAU, they think the exact same way you think about canada and mexico, they think British membership helps the other countries in the EU more than it helps britian, in fact every pro EU argument can be used to argue the US should join an NAU

 

[hashmander]

the people never voted to be in the EU, thats the point

the point that im getting at is that 52% of the british public looks at the EU the same way an american would look at the NAU, they think the exact same way you think about canada and mexico, they think British membership helps the other countries in the EU more than it helps britian, in fact every pro EU argument can be used to argue the US should join an NAU

america is THE global power, joining some kind of small countries band together to create a big bloc union would be a watering down of our power. britain was a fading power after WWII and they damn sure aren't one today. their power was amplified in the EU.

anyway, i will say it again. i (and many others) view this vote as self destructive. i thought of a self-destructive example that exists (our united states). but just to cut a long story short because i see no argument. another self-destructive act americans could take was to vote to create an NAU.

 

[TTT]

The British voted to join what was the EEC. It made much more sense for Europeans then in the common market. The bigger problem has always been the power of the German economy overwhelms others, the UK tried to peg the pound to the mark and it ended in disaster. I think it would have survived if it was predominantly Western Europe with economies that were at similar levels of development. The weaker nations benefited from transfer payments to a great deal in a manner that no other economic bloc would have afforded. The US has no need for such a union and Canada and Mexico are much smaller economies relative to the US that it doesn't make any sense for the US. Germany ,France and UK are similar sized economies with Germany not having a GDP 15 or 16 times its neighbors like the case with the US.

Incidentally I was watching a documentary of John Major's tenure and they had a similar situation were the guy who led the coup against Thatcher ultimately failed to be PM like what happened to Johnson. The man who yields the dagger seldom wears the crown like the politicians like to say.

 

[Starman]

How Brexit shattered progressives' dearest illusions
How Brexit shattered progressives' dearest illusions

As I read this, the beat to Ether spontaneously started playing in my head.

 

[theworldismine13]

america is THE global power, joining some kind of small countries band together to create a big bloc union would be a watering down of our power. britain was a fading power after WWII and they damn sure aren't one today. their power was amplified in the EU.

anyway, i will say it again. i (and many others) view this vote as self destructive. i thought of a self-destructive example that exists (our united states). but just to cut a long story short because i see no argument. another self-destructive act americans could take was to vote to create an NAU.

yeah there is no argument if you delude yourself into telling other people what they should think, you are displaying the arrogance of progressives as the article i posted noted

the EU had good things and it had some bad things, some people felt that the good things about the EU where not worth handing over sovereignty to a commission, the NAU and the EU is the same difference, at the end of the day you are handing sovereignty to people outside of your country

there is a sizable chunk, at least 52%, that weighed the good and the bad and did not want to be part of europe, its called self determination and its important to respect that

even if it is self destructive, so what? like i said before, why exactly would anybody shed tears for the demise of the united kingdom?

 

[Scoop]

yeah there is no argument if you delude yourself into telling other people what they should think, you are displaying the arrogance of progressives as the article i posted noted

the EU had good things and it had some bad things, some people felt that the good things about the EU where not worth handing over sovereignty to a commission, the NAU and the EU is the same difference, at the end of the day you are handing sovereignty to people outside of your country

there is a sizable chunk, at least 52%, that weighed the good and the bad and did not want to be part of europe, its called self determination and its important to respect that

even if it is self destructive, so what? like i said before, why exactly would anybody shed tears for the demise of the united kingdom?

I agree. Some people (globalists/the intolerant left) have a vision for the world though. Anything that happens that contradicts that vision is given a label to combat it, like "xenophobia".

People kept making an economic argument as to why Brexit was stupid and how leave voters were stupid. I think in the end self determination/having your own unique culture and people > economy to a lot of people though.

I think that's a reason why polls showed the voters no longer trusted "the experts." The experts are number crunchers who claimed Brexit would hurt the economy. We'll see if they end up right but regardless they never saw the human cultrural side of things.

 

[hashmander]

yeah there is no argument if you delude yourself into telling other people what they should think, you are displaying the arrogance of progressives as the article i posted noted

the EU had good things and it had some bad things, some people felt that the good things about the EU where not worth handing over sovereignty to a commission, the NAU and the EU is the same difference, at the end of the day you are handing sovereignty to people outside of your country

there is a sizable chunk, at least 52%, that weighed the good and the bad and did not want to be part of europe, its called self determination and its important to respect that

even if it is self destructive, so what? like i said before, why exactly would anybody shed tears for the demise of the united kingdom?

that was point of the mini discussion me and the taxman were having so there is no so what. you're bringing in NAU examples when it's not even real or relevant to what me and him were talking about. read what he posted and then my response to him. i wanted an example of a self destructive action that americans could take via direct vote if we're even allowed to be so stupid. voting to leave the NAU isn't an example on my radar because that shyt isn't even real and we'd have to be in it to want out.