Bron Ball: The worst offense of all time?

[Haliax]

the guy has won 3 finals..in all of them being a finals MVP. but only on the coli is that a sign of deficiencies

 

[Left.A1]

Miami was not really running Bron Ball like Cleveland is now. Wade was not a spot up shooter like J.R Smith is.

What system were they running? because the Bron Ballers say he turned Chris Bosh into Robert Horry

 

[duncanthetall]

Gil Scot-Heroine negged me for this post and wrote that it's just because I came back to the site after my vacation.

Dude, what is wrong with you? I put you on ignore seven months ago and you've negged me seven times since then.

You got too much invested in this fool. No one on this site cares if my rep is 3,050 or 3,000. So the ONLY reason to neg me is to send a personal message to me, because you care about my opinions on sports that much.

Breh, I don't even know you. Caring about sports as much as you do is one thing, caring this much about the opinions on sports of someone you don't even know who has you on ignore?

I put that fakkit on ignore too. Dude lives in this forum.

 

[AJD]

Basically Bron will get you to the finals but you need a Wade or Kyrie of not then you have chance of winning.

So Two dynamic wings and the rest 3pt specialists/defensive wings

 

[SithLawd]

Low key if Klay and draymond were drafted by the Cavs and started their careers playing with bron they’d be bums

Imagine bron pouting at half court as these dudes are forced to create their own offense.
Klay can’t dribbledraymond can’t do anything get bron more help

Big reason they became all stars was cause they played in a motion offense with curry who makes it so much easier for everyone around him

Curry ball >>

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I put that fakkit on ignore too. Dude lives in this forum.

This nikka talking about "fakkits" yet he's got some cotdamn androgynous anime/cartoon shyt as his avi. Lord have mercy.

 

[beenz]

LeBron had a prime Bosh who put up 24ppg his last year in Toronto being strictly a spot up shooter. And that dude is making the HOF first ballot.

 

[Take It In Blood]

Bron bout to get swept

 

[beenz]

Bron bout to get swept

Like it's 07 again

 

[surv2syn]

even it it is the worst, which it could be...its the offense most suited for his skill set given his personnel. whats funny is how the "more help" is so often taken out of context when Bron was really just saying he needed another passer/playmaker because Kyrie isnt that much of an assist guy. he just wanted another guy to help them both play off the ball.

now Broussard says his sources tell him Bron wants to play off ball more after this year. which is why the Sixers rumors have legs. GS has Steph/Dray/Iggy. HOU has CP3/Harden. Even Boston has good PG's along with Horford. As good as Bron is, he cant beat a team like the Warriors without an elite defender and a great playmaker. The reason why I always say Horford is actually a better system player than Love.

 

[Rayzah]

That's actually true, but it's the haters who keep claiming otherwise. I must have seen at least 20 versions of "Bron has refused to ever play in any offensive system" or "Bron can't play off ball" in the last day alone.

These are haters just from the first two pages of this thread. THEY are the ones you should be preaching to:







Bron plays the way that fits his personnel and is enabled by his coaches. Mike Brown was a terrible offensive coach and the personnel in his first Cleveland run couldn't create shots for shyt, so an early inefficient version of "Bron ball" was the only thing that worked. In Miami Spolstra was extra slow to get anything implemented, but by the 3rd year the Heat were really rolling with a lot of excellent two-man game between Lebron and Wade and all sorts of off-ball movement. In Cleveland Lebron and Miller bought into Blatt's motion offense at the beginning, but the personnel just didn't fit - Kyrie was reluctant to buy in and Waiters/TT were straight incapable (nor JR and Shump when they showed up). Bron ball with Kyrie isolations were what won them the title in 2016.

its not hate, its the damn truth

Bron ball is when he A 6'7 small forward is bringing your ball up the court, dribbling the clock out looking for his shot and then passing at the last few seconds if he gets doubled.. If a point guard did that the coach would bench him, he shouldn't be holding on to the ball so early in the shot clock, it slows down the ball movement and the offense and it reduces your teammates to spot up shooters.. real talk he would be great in the triangle but the knicks made that offense look so bad no onw will admit it.

Bron ball is why his stats look so good, he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else

 

[Professor Emeritus]

What system were they running? because the Bron Ballers say he turned Chris Bosh into Robert Horry

That's because they're idiots. Bosh developed a three-point shot during the Lebron era, but he wasn't even making more than 0.9 threes/game in any season until after Bron left. Three pointers were nothing more than a tiny but useful part of Bosh's game.

40-50% of Bosh's shot attempts were within 10 feet of the hoop every season he played with Bron. 2013 (when Bosh shot 54%) and 2014 (when Bosh shot 52% and 34% from three) was the best two-year shooting run of Bosh's career. How can Bosh have increased his shooting % so much if all he was getting were spot-up shots from distance?

In 2010-11 when Miami was running the "your turn my turn" offense between Lebron and Wade, they were 23rd in assists in the NBA.
In 2012 when Miami handed the reigns over to Bron but he still dominated the ball, the Heat improved to 21st in assists.
In 2013 when Miami moved Bosh to the 5 and started running a real offense with Lebron off-ball for meaningful plays and movement, they moved all the way up to 6th in assists.
In 2014 they continued it and were 7th in assists.

How can you move from the bottom third of the NBA in assists to solidly in the top 10 if all you're running is "Bron ball"?

This gets into the "pace-and-space" offense that Miami ran those two years: Lebron James and the NBA's most highly evolved offense

Low key if Klay and draymond were drafted by the Cavs and started their careers playing with bron they’d be bums

Imagine bron pouting at half court as these dudes are forced to create their own offense.
Klay can’t dribbledraymond can’t do anything get bron more help

Big reason they became all stars was cause they played in a motion offense with curry who makes it so much easier for everyone around him

Curry ball >>

Ya'all always say that Lebron tries to turn his teammates into spot-up shooters, then you claim that Lebron wouldn't be able to use the world's greatest spot-up shooter?

And Draymond would be an incredible fit for the Cavs. Besides the fact that his shooting, movement, and passing would be great, there's the fact that 75% of his impact is on defense anyway.

Ya'all just talking to talk now.

LeBron had a prime Bosh who put up 24ppg his last year in Toronto being strictly a spot up shooter. And that dude is making the HOF first ballot.

If Bosh was "strictly a spot-up shooter", then how did he have the two best shooting seasons of his career in 2013 and 2014?

How is it possible that 40-50% of his shots in his Bron seasons were within 10 feet?

its not hate, its the damn truth

Bron ball is when he A 6'7 small forward is bringing your ball up the court, dribbling the clock out looking for his shot and then passing at the last few seconds if he gets doubled.. If a point guard did that the coach would bench him, he shouldn't be holding on to the ball so early in the shot clock, it slows down the ball movement and the offense and it reduces your teammates to spot up shooters.. real talk he would be great in the triangle but the knicks made that offense look so bad no onw will admit it.

Bron ball is why his stats look so good, he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else

You're blind if you think that's what Miami was running in 2013 and 2014.

How could they have been 6th and 7th in the NBA in assists running that offense?

How could they have been FIRST in the NBA in field goal % in both 2013 and 2014 if they were running that offense?

 

[Rayzah]

That's because they're idiots. Bosh developed a three-point shot during the Lebron era, but he wasn't even making more than 0.9 threes/game in any season until after Bron left. Three pointers were nothing more than a tiny but useful part of Bosh's game.

40-50% of Bosh's shot attempts were within 10 feet of the hoop every season he played with Bron. 2013 (when Bosh shot 54%) and 2014 (when Bosh shot 52% and 34% from three) was the best two-year shooting run of Bosh's career. How can Bosh have increased his shooting % so much if all he was getting were spot-up shots from distance?

In 2010-11 when Miami was running the "your turn my turn" offense between Lebron and Wade, they were 23rd in assists in the NBA.
In 2012 when Miami handed the reigns over to Bron but he still dominated the ball, the Heat improved to 21st in assists.
In 2013 when Miami moved Bosh to the 5 and started running a real offense with Lebron off-ball for meaningful plays and movement, they moved all the way up to 6th in assists.
In 2014 they continued it and were 7th in assists.

How can you move from the bottom third of the NBA in assists to solidly in the top 10 if all you're running is "Bron ball"?

This gets into the "pace-and-space" offense that Miami ran those two years: Lebron James and the NBA's most highly evolved offense




Ya'all always say that Lebron tries to turn his teammates into spot-up shooters, then you claim that Lebron wouldn't be able to use the world's greatest spot-up shooter?

And Draymond would be an incredible fit for the Cavs. Besides the fact that his shooting, movement, and passing would be great, there's the fact that 75% of his impact is on defense anyway.

Ya'all just talking to talk now.





If Bosh was "strictly a spot-up shooter", then how did he have the two best shooting seasons of his career in 2013 and 2014?

How is it possible that 40-50% of his shots in his Bron seasons were within 10 feet?





You're blind if you think that's what Miami was running in 2013 and 2014.

How could they have been 6th and 7th in the NBA in assists running that offense?

How could they have been FIRST in the NBA in field goal % in both 2013 and 2014 if they were running that offense?

Fine. That year they ran an actual offense. However he back to the same shyt since he been in Cleveland. That’s why I said he would have more rings if he ran a legit offense. He is good enough to win I spit of that style of play but their offense looks bad to me.

And bosh was reduced to a big man that got the garbage points the last few years in Miami. But it worked, because they were all so good.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Fine. That year they ran an actual offense. However he back to the same shyt since he been in Cleveland.

Wrong. When Lebron came to Cleveland, he was excited about the motion offense Blatt wanted to run.

LeBron James and Mike Miller have high praise for David Blatt's offense

"It's very free flowing and it's going to be challenging for guys," James said. "I can see it. Guys are kind of thinking through it a little too much, but I think when we get it there are so many different options. It's live at every position and there's a counter to everything a defense can do."

The Princeton offense isn't new to the NBA. James referenced the Washington Wizards, who ran a version of it with Eddie Jordan as head coach. Byron Scott attempted to run it during his first season in Cleveland. But James believes this version is a bit different.

"People always say the Princeton when you have four guys above the free throw line. A lot of teams have played it in the past," James said. "There's a lot more options to this than I'm used to seeing."

It's three days into a season-long journey for the Cavs that could culminate in the franchise's first championship. But a lot of things have to go right. It took the Heat some time to get the new faces to come together. There has been massive roster turnover for the Cavaliers. Hard work, patience and chemistry were key elements to Miami's title runs.

James sees those qualities now with this new squad.

"What's not to like?" he asked. "We have a lot of talent, we have guys that want to learn and we have guys that want to work. That's a key."

The problem was that the offense didn't fit the personnel, guys like Waiters and Tristan (and later JR and Shump) were never able to learn it, and they had to move on. But it wasn't like he came to Cleveland and just immediately instituted "Bron ball."

That’s why I said he would have more rings if he ran a legit offense. He is good enough to win I spit of that style of play but their offense looks bad to me.

Did one of the most efficient, highest-scoring offenses in NBA history look "bad" to you last year?

In the 2017 playoffs, the Cavs averaged 118 points for every 100 possessions (compared to only 116 for the Warriors) while shooting 49% from the field (same as the Warriors) and 42% from three (compared to 39% for the Warriors) while only turning the ball over 13 times (same as the Warriors).

Those are incredible, historic numbers. And that's for a team starting JR Smith and Tristan Thompson and with no PG or Center on the bench. That's an incredible offense.

The Cavs' issues last year were the lack of defense and lack of a bench, NOT the lack of a good offense.

And bosh was reduced to a big man that got the garbage points the last few years in Miami. But it worked, because they were all so good.

He was a 3rd option on a team with two great scorers. It is what it is.

Chris Bosh was making 7 field goals a game as the 3rd option in 2010-2013. You want to compare that to other great sidekicks?

Scottie Pippen made 7-8 field goals a game every season from 1990 to 1998, and he was the second option.

Kevin Garnett made 6-7 field goals a game every season from 2008 to 2011, and he was the second option.

Ray Allen got 6 field goals a game as the 3rd option from 2008 to 2011.

Klay Thompson has been getting about 8 field goals a game every year since 2014 as the 2nd or 3rd option.

Manu Ginobli got 4-6 field goals a game as the 3rd option from 2004 to 2014.


How many shots you think are available in a game? Bosh got his shots and he got them in good position. He was the clear 3rd option, and that is that.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Wrong. When Lebron came to Cleveland, he was excited about the motion offense Blatt wanted to run.

LeBron James and Mike Miller have high praise for David Blatt's offense



The problem was that the offense didn't fit the personnel, guys like Waiters and Tristan (and later JR and Shump) were never able to learn it, and they had to move on. But it wasn't like he came to Cleveland and just immediately instituted "Bron ball."

at this revisionism.

“There’s a growing tension… between the players and coach David Blatt. There’s been a disconnect there that has been increasing. It may be something the organization has to deal with either giving David Blatt a vote of confidence, or maybe looking at the position again… They have completely abandoned his offensive system. LeBron has taken over point guard without even consulting David Blatt.”

James acknowledged recently that he did not formally request permission to assume the bulk of the Cavs’ playmaking duties, which triggered Cleveland’s eight-game winning streak earlier this month.

“No, I can do it on my own,” James said of his role change. “I’m passed those days where I have to ask.”

Foremost, it appears LeBron never gave Blatt a legitimate chance. James seemed to undermine him from the very beginning, and the principles which made Blatt successful overseas weren't even given a single practice to be implemented (there isn't an NBA-level offense that can be "mastered" in a single practice, no matter how intelligent the player. It couldn't be more obvious that James took the gist of Blatt's offense, then grafted his own, iso-friendly, style of play onto it.)

Instead of being given the opportunity to instill his more-equal opportunity offense that would've been of great benefit to the talented, but limited, Kevin Love like a head coach should, Blatt was effectively neutered, forced to watch as Love was shoved into the corner to accommodate for LeBron and Kyrie's isolation onslaught.

LeBron didn't want to run that shyt from the beginning - if he did, they wouldn't have abandoned it before the end of November. It's half the reason why he took a passive approach on offense to prove a point early on in the season (5-7 record; four-game losing streak where he tapered his offensive activity), and then miraculously started playing aggressively again when he took over the offense.