Can LeBron really be the GOAT with both 2011 and 2014 on his resume?

[Osmosis]

Jordan got spanked by the Pistons and Celtics-- won a total of one series in 5 tries against them and then proceeded to win championships in the worst era in nba history against teams led by Shawn Kemp and Terry Porter. All while playing on the best team in the league alongside a top 5 player in his prime.

The 2012 Thunder, 2013 Spurs, and 2016 Warriors were all better than any team Jordan faced in the 1990s.

If Luka misses the finals with Bron, a year after making it with Kyrie in the SAME CONFERENCE, you gotta really start putting respect on Kyrie's name for the 2016 title

Just like how Rip Hamilton missed the playoffs with Jordan and made the finals with Chauncey

 

[Mister Terrific]

Just like how Rip Hamilton missed the playoffs with Jordan and made the finals with Chauncey

Nah MJ was old and his knees hurt from gambling. We don’t count his years in Washington as failures.

 

[Boonapalist]

Jordan got spanked by the Pistons and Celtics-- won a total of one series in 5 tries against them and then proceeded to win championships in the worst era in nba history against teams led by Shawn Kemp and Terry Porter. All while playing on the best team in the league alongside a top 5 player in his prime.

Worst era in NBA history? Y’all be putting extras in these convos

 

[Boonapalist]

False

At the same age LeBron was making the NBA finals, Jordan got put out of the playoffs by the Milwaukee Bucks 3-1

He averaged 29 points on 43% shooting and 12% from the 3 point line

1985 NBA Eastern Conference First Round - Bulls vs. Bucks | Basketball-Reference.com

Summary and statistics for the 1985 NBA Eastern Conference First Round - Bulls vs. Bucks

www.basketball-reference.com

Game 1: 7-19
Game 2: 9-17
Game 3: 12-26
Game 4: 6-16


Game 4 wasn’t particularly close either



Jordan was positively awful and outplayed by Sydney Moncrief who averaged 27 on 55% shooting

LeBron went up against 3 hall of famers with a hall of fame coach.

Jordan played his clunkers getting put out of the playoffs before the finals.


Keep going and I’ll bring up those Pistons series that the weirdly gets credit for playing like ass and getting his ass beat.

Why’re you using FG% like it’s still 2002? Jordan’s TS% with his volume was fine. And the Bucks were the 2nd ranked defense in the league so I don’t get talking down on them like they weren’t shyt

 

[Mister Terrific]

Why’re you using FG% like it’s still 2002? Jordan’s TS% with his volume was fine. And the Bucks were the 2nd ranked defense in the league so I don’t get talking down on them like they weren’t shyt

His team shot 46% from the field. Orlando Woolridge shot 50% with only 10 less attempts. His TS doesn’t look bad because he shot 58 free throws.

That’s how you go 6-16 from the field but still ends up with 29 points.

 

[Everythingg]

False

At the same age LeBron was making the NBA finals, Jordan got put out of the playoffs by the Milwaukee Bucks 3-1

He averaged 29 points on 43% shooting and 12% from the 3 point line

29 6 rebs 9 assists 3 steals and 1 block is comparable to how Lebron played in 2011?

Oh and yea lets compare age instead of, idk, MJ being a rookie and leading his team to the playoffs to face a perennial 50 win playoff team? How much Bron average in the playoffs his rookie year again?

Jordan was positively awful and outplayed by Sydney Moncrief who averaged 27 on 55% shooting

LeBron went up against 3 hall of famers with a hall of fame coach.

Jordan being outplayed by Hall of Famer Moncrief vs Lebron going toe to toe with Jason Terry while being trash talked?

Is it "Bron went up against 3 HOFers with a HOF coach" or is it that that's what the Heat had on their team? And that's them having 3 handpicked HOFers that were all number 1 options IN THEIR PRIME vs whatever it is you're claiming the Spurs had?

Keep going and I’ll bring up those Pistons series that the weirdly gets credit for playing like ass and getting his ass beat.

Playing like ass where? If this was true then you would have brought those stats in the first place.

Imagine a player having such a high standard that someone could call 29, 6, 9, 3 steals and 1 block a "no show" comparable to the LeBron "just leave him open" series Bron had in 07 vs the Spurs. If this is the best clunker example you have from MJ then you're just proving my point that MJ and Bron aint on the same level.

 

[Don Homer]

2014 spurs teams stars were older than the heat AND they had played almost as much basketball as the heat over a 3 year span ( WCF, Finals, Finals)

Yeah I never got the “Heat were tired” excuse

Duncan Parker and Ginobili were making deep runs in the early to mid-2000s, and were much older than the big 3 Heat

Not to mention they played in the MUCH tougher conference, coming off a game 6 OT thriller against the Thunder in 2014

Side note: Duncan hitting that dagger on Ibaka in OT, and Kawhi getting that crazy steal on the fast break against Russ was

 

[Mister Terrific]

29 6 rebs 9 assists 3 steals and 1 block is comparable to how Lebron played in 2011?

We aren’t referring to 2011, we are referring to LeBron beating the Pistons with Rip Hamilton, Chris Webber, Rashee Wallace and Chauncey Billups on his way to the NBA finals nearly single-handedly. At the same point in their careers Jordan was fighting for his life vs Terry Cummings.

Also those 29 points were mostly free throws. Seems the refs didn’t yet know how to officiate guard play which makes sense since the game was basically still in its infancy. His field goal percentage was atrocious and the second worst on his team. The only player to shoot as poorly from the field as Mike was Quintin Dailey.

Oh and yea lets compare age instead of, idk, MJ being a rookie and leading his team to the playoffs to face a perennial 50 win playoff team? How much Bron average in the playoffs his rookie year again?

Bwhahaha they made the playoffs winning 38 games. They also made the playoffs the next year when Mike got Injured winning 30 games.

Not an accomplishment.

The Bulls went from 27 wins in 83 to 38 wins in 84 with MJ


The Cavs went from 17 wins in 2002 to 35 wins with LeBron


Congrats you played yourself with your own argument

Jordan being outplayed by Hall of Famer Moncrief vs Lebron going toe to toe with Jason Terry while being trash talked?

Jason Terry outplayed Kobe that year but that’s neither here nor there.


MJ was the 4th best player in that series


Terry Cummings 29.5 ppg, 9 rebounds, 63%
Sidney Moncrief 26.5 ppg, 55%, 4.5 reb, 4.8 assists
Orlando Woolridge 20.5 pog, 50% FG


Also

Sidney Moncrief best season

22.5 ppg/5.8 rebounds/3.8 assists/52%TS



Jason Terry

19.7 ppg/3.3 rebounds/4.9 assists/48% TS


Don’t act like a prime Jason Terry wouldn’t cook the shyt out of the 85 Bucks


Hell cut out the 5 years Terry was collecting a paycheck he easily had a better career than Sidney Moncrief

Is it "Bron went up against 3 HOFers with a HOF coach" or is it that that's what the Heat had on their team? And that's them having 3 handpicked HOFers that were all number 1 options IN THEIR PRIME vs whatever it is you're claiming the Cavs had?

We are talking about a 23 year old LeBron playing the Spurs. Stay on topic.





But since you want to play games


1989 Game 4 vs Pistons. Bulls up 2-1 at Home


Jordan 5 for 15, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal












Jordan Stan’s

 

[UpNext]

It really depends on what your GOAT criteria is. I don't think he can be the GOAT because there's a good 8 year stretch when him and Jordan were playing at their peak where I'd say he was definitely better than LeBron. There's also the 6 championships, 10 scoring titles, 5 MVPs, 6 FMVPs and DPOTY accolade advantages that LeBron still hasn't surpassed even though he's played like 8-9 seasons more than him at this point.

But if you value longevity over a peak, I can see LeBron just being great for so long that there's where you'd make your argument.

 

[god shamgod]

LeBron made it to the finals as a 22 year old vs the Pistons - who were 2 years removed from a title and 1 year removed from making the NBA finals

The Pistons had Rip Hamilton, Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber. Antonio McDyess and Chauncey Billups.


Michael Jordan at 22 years old got out of the playoffs in the 1st round by the 86 Bucks 3-1 whose leading scorer was Terry Cummings.



Yeah Jordan was the whipping boy of the Celtics and Pistons for many years until Scottie arrived, none of those series were close.


Conversely LeBron by himself took the 66 win 2008 NBA champions Celtics 7 games by himself

One of his most forgotten yet most brilliant series

This weak ass pistons team wasn’t even remotely close to the one that won the championship

Ben Wallace wasn’t on these pretenders

You tried

 

[Everythingg]

We aren’t referring to 2011,

Uhh you quoted me who was certainly referring to 2007/2011. So Im still waiting on a MJ SERIES where he played as bad as Bron did in those 2 finals series vs the Spurs/Mavs. Got it yet?

Bwhahaha they made the playoffs winning 38 games. They also made the playoffs the next year when Mike got Injured winning 30 games.

Not an accomplishment.

The Bulls went from 27 wins in 83 to 38 wins in 84 with MJ


The Cavs went from 17 wins in 2002 to 35 wins with LeBron


Congrats you played yourself with your own argument

Play myself?

MJ made the playoffs his rookie season while Bron didn't. Facts only. You then went on to compare how MJ played in his playoff rookie debut, to how Lebron played when he was already 4 years (07) and 8 years in (11). And MJ's numbers STILL weren't as bad as Lebron's in those 2 years. Are you even sure of the argument you're trying to make?

that’s neither here nor there.

It certainly isn't.. We're talking about Bron.

Imagine trying to compare Jason Terry to 2 time DPOY, HOFer Sydney Moncrief

We are talking about a 23 year old LeBron playing the Spurs. Stay on topic.

Yes the series where the Cavs were in every game despite their best player playing bad (in every game). But maybe you're still looking for the series where MJ played as bad as Bron did in 07/11?

But since you want to play games


1989 Game 4 vs Pistons. Bulls up 2-1 at Home


Jordan 5 for 15, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal




Jordan Stan’s

Uhh I guess you'd have a point if I said MJ never had a bad GAME. I didn't tho. I asked for a SERIES where MJ played as bad as Bron did in 07/11 and you somehow think bringing a SERIES where MJ averaged 30 6 and 5 is comparable to the trash we saw from Bron in 07/11? But hey, maybe you're still doing your googles?


Or its really be the fact that we’re talking about 2 different levels where a MJ clunker is on a whole level above (or 2)a LBJ one

 

[BrentWoodSean38]

Jordan was good enough his team wasn’t

Why is it so hard to accept the fact the bulls were a young ass team in 1988-1990 while the pistons & Celtics were veteran teams with championship and playoff experience? it’s obvious jordan wasn’t beating them then. When his team was good they took the pistons 7 then swept them

But Bron teams were good enough to beat GS & SA?

We aren’t referring to 2011, we are referring to LeBron beating the Pistons with Rip Hamilton, Chris Webber, Rashee Wallace and Chauncey Billups on his way to the NBA finals nearly single-handedly. At the same point in their careers Jordan was fighting for his life vs Terry Cummings.

Also those 29 points were mostly free throws. Seems the refs didn’t yet know how to officiate guard play which makes sense since the game was basically still in its infancy. His field goal percentage was atrocious and the second worst on his team. The only player to shoot as poorly from the field as Mike was Quintin Dailey.








Bwhahaha they made the playoffs winning 38 games. They also made the playoffs the next year when Mike got Injured winning 30 games.

Not an accomplishment.

The Bulls went from 27 wins in 83 to 38 wins in 84 with MJ


The Cavs went from 17 wins in 2002 to 35 wins with LeBron


Congrats you played yourself with your own argument



Jason Terry outplayed Kobe that year but that’s neither here nor there.


MJ was the 4th best player in that series


Terry Cummings 29.5 ppg, 9 rebounds, 63%
Sidney Moncrief 26.5 ppg, 55%, 4.5 reb, 4.8 assists
Orlando Woolridge 20.5 pog, 50% FG


Also

Sidney Moncrief best season

22.5 ppg/5.8 rebounds/3.8 assists/52%TS



Jason Terry

19.7 ppg/3.3 rebounds/4.9 assists/48% TS


Don’t act like a prime Jason Terry wouldn’t cook the shyt out of the 85 Bucks


Hell cut out the 5 years Terry was collecting a paycheck he easily had a better career than Sidney Moncrief








We are talking about a 23 year old LeBron playing the Spurs. Stay on topic.





But since you want to play games


1989 Game 4 vs Pistons. Bulls up 2-1 at Home


Jordan 5 for 15, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal












Jordan Stan’s

Damn. You cooked him you ain’t have to do him like that

 

[steph_harden]

I don’t see why they would even bring up 2014

His team got obliterated but he himself put up 29/10/8 on 60% shooting

He was still the best player in that series

The problem was that the Heat got a record breaking beatdown

 

[Ozymandeas]

“Greatest player of all time” had multiple finals games with 0-2 points in the 4th and took 1-4 shots in those games

After forming a super team in a weak ass conference and Bragging about winning 6-7

Nobody in their right mind thinks Lebron James is the greatest basketball player ever.dude has team hopped 4x with multiple all stars/top 5 picks and still couldn’t win more than Mike,magic,Kobe,Russell,Duncan

If I was a part of LeBron's inner circle, I would've told him he was dumb to leave Cleveland.

It was bad enough to leave Cleveland the first time but, the second time, nah nikka.

Winning 3 rings in Cleveland would've done way, way, way more for your career than anything you could do in LA or Miami.

 

[Ozymandeas]

Sounds like an excuse to me. Something not allowed for LeBron. 2007 and 2018 Cavs were not the best team in the East when he made it and ran into two dynasties. Celtics had a Big 4 when His team beat them. Jordan never in his life beat teams as good as the teams Bron beat

2007 is true. 2018 is major cap. The Cavs were the best team in the East from 2015 to 2018, stop the lies.