Can Muslims and Christians both be right?

[IVS]

IVS, you did not answer my questions. But I'll answer yours. No and no. It's that simple. From my experience, people are extremely comfortable with insulting other people's beliefs, but are not so comfortable answering questions about their own beliefs. Believe me, you did not upset me. It seems that you are far more bothered than I am.

You wish that. And your response was laughable. But I'll entertain you and say that my religion is life and it does call for me to insult other people at times.

 

[lini...]

You wish that. And your response was laughable. But I'll entertain you and say that my religion is life and it does call for me to insult other people at times.

Do you think (I am supposing that you are making up the rules of your religion) that it is useful to insult someone that you are trying to enlighten?

 

[Everythingg]

As great as their alleged god is, he only reveals himself to one man at a time, and provides that single man with divine revelations, instead of God demonstrating his omnipresence and appearing and speaking before a group.

False. God revealed Himself to a group (the Hebrews) in the bible. Really the only religion that I am aware of where such a thing occurred...

 

[IVS]

False. God revealed Himself to a group (the Hebrews) in the bible. Really the only religion that I am aware of where such a thing occurred...

LMAO! Yeh okay. The TaNaKh\OT is propaganda so I would expect it to say that God spoke to the Hebrews and\or Israelites.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Thanks for that.

No problem. As you see in the link they held a slew of beliefs that deviated severely from the Apostles' own and, thus, were heretical. I understood the point you were making, but had the Apostles actually witnessed and understood things such as what those groups claimed, they would have been voted as 'orthodox'. Also, positing that Jesus' final fate was ultimately determined by a vote declaring he was crucified doesn't make sense.​

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

LMAO! Yeh okay. The TaNaKh\OT is propaganda so I would expect it to say that God spoke to the Hebrews and\or Israelites.

Propaganda isn't necessarily false (although often epistemologically weak and/or defective) and the text is much, much more than that.

Then again, most people don't read it correctly as they don't know what they're reading.​

 

[IVS]

Propaganda isn't necessarily false (although often epistemologically weak and/or defective) and the text is much, much more than that.

Then again, most people don't read it correctly as they don't know what they're reading.​

This I know, but Im talking about the TaNaKh\OT and not propaganda in general, so spare me! O I have read it. It specifically states that Ham committed an act and thru that Canaan was cursed, and later we find the Jacobites upon their exit from Egypt headed to Canaan to disposes the Canaanites of their land. Now we find Canaan is paying for the sins of his father, although the Hebraic-Jacobite book says that no man shall pay for the sins of another, nor the son for the sins of the father. It's pretty clear that in order to justify their conquest of Canaan they had to manufacture a reason. And then they elevate Shem and Japhet, and make Canaan a servant of servants. GTFOH! If you believe that .......

You can say whatever you want but the Torah and TaNaKh is the propaganda of an evil colonialist and imperialist group and the proof is in their "scripture" which is the reflection of their ideology. It is not the word of God, but the words of vile men with an agenda.

 

[Everythingg]

LMAO! Yeh okay. The TaNaKh\OT is propaganda so I would expect it to say that God spoke to the Hebrews and\or Israelites.

What other "religion" reports their god revealing itself to a community of people? None right?

This I know, but Im talking about the TaNaKh\OT and not propaganda in general, so spare me! O I have read it. It specifically states that Ham committed an act and thru that Canaan was cursed, and later we find the Jacobites upon their exit from Egypt headed to Canaan to disposes the Canaanites of their land. Now we find Canaan is paying for the sins of his father, although the Hebraic-Jacobite book says that no man shall pay for the sins of another, nor the son for the sins of the father. It's pretty clear that in order to justify their conquest of Canaan they had to manufacture a reason. And then they elevate Shem and Japhet, and make Canaan a servant of servants. GTFOH! If you believe that .......

So what you're saying is that they the Hebrews wrote the bible to make up an excuse to get land from the Canaanites (the first time)? Did they hand out the bible to Canaanites before stealing their land?

You can say whatever you want but the Torah and TaNaKh is the propaganda of an evil colonialist and imperialist group and the proof is in their "scripture" which is the reflection of their ideology. It is not the word of God, but the words of vile men with an agenda.

Just as you can say what you want. The Torah doesnt support blanket colonialism/imperialism no matter what you say...

 

[IVS]

What other "religion" reports their god revealing itself to a community of people? None right?

So what you're saying is that they the Hebrews wrote the bible to make up an excuse to get land from the Canaanites (the first time)? Did they hand out the bible to Canaanites before stealing their land?




Just as you can say what you want. The Torah doesnt support blanket colonialism/imperialism no matter what you say...

Well the book was developed from oral tradition, so they could have composed, or gathered the traditions into a written form later (a la Ptolemy gathering the 70 elders and producing the LXX\G aka the Septuagint), but the followers could easily have been indoctrinated into the ideology presented before the book was ever composed. Thats my point. And if its in their scripture than its almost surely reflects their mindset at the time of their conquest whether they had anything written down or not.

 

[Everythingg]

Well the book was developed from oral tradition, so they could have composed it lat, but the followers could easily have been indoctrinated into the ideology presented before the book was ever composed. Thats my point. And if its in their scripture than its almost surely reflects their mindset at the time of their conquest whether they had anything written down or not.

My point was that they didnt have to create stories to get the land. So it makes no sense to say that it was propaganda to get the land. All they had to do was, well, get the land. Get up and go on a conquest. They didnt have to create vivid stories with moral meanings and commandments about serving a (in this case, not in all actuality) a "fictional" being to find reasoning into getting the land.

 

[IVS]

My point was that they didnt have to create stories to get the land. So it makes no sense to say that it was propaganda to get the land. All they had to do was, well, get the land. Get up and go on a conquest. They didnt have to create vivid stories with moral meanings and commandments about serving a (in this case, not in all actuality) a "fictional" being to find reasoning into getting the land.

Okay and your point is. They could have written it later to justify their conquest. The stories exist to convince other peoples that the land belonged to them and that it was sanctioned by "God" and to promote prophecy. That still propaganda. You're talking about moral stories...what?! To avoid your sidestepping I'll just say let's focus on the base of their religious ideology as contained in the T portion of the T-N-Kh called Torah (called Pentateuch by Greeks) which you can't deny is propaganda that justifies their conquests. When is was written down matters not, because we can go read what it says and clearly extract the ideology for ourselves.

And then theres the Mishnah and Gemara, but Ill leave that alone for now.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

This I know, but Im talking about the TaNaKh\OT and not propaganda in general, so spare me! O I have read it. It specifically states that Ham committed an act and thru that Canaan was cursed, and later we find the Jacobites upon their exit from Egypt headed to Canaan to disposes the Canaanites of their land.

That's called 'war'. Propaganda proliferates before, during, and shortly after wars. If you don't know what type/genre of literature you're reading, you're reading it wrong.
​

It's pretty clear that in order to justify their conquest of Canaan they had to manufacture a reason.

Not really. The number one reason for wars has always been resources closely followed by politics. No need to manufacture anything if your people are starving/homeless/etc.
​

You can say whatever you want but the Torah and TaNaKh is the propaganda of an evil colonialist and imperialist group

If everyone in the region were committing the same acts, what exactly makes theirs 'evil'?​

 

[MaLi]

Christians are right if they follow what JEsus said regarding following the law. People will interpret the verses based on their own beliefs, or whatever works best for them.

Jesus is the son of God--- similarly to any of us being a child of God. Difference is Jesus was also a prophet, he was chosen, and God did miracles through him--- similarly to God producing miracles through Moses.


When are we gonna learn that once s get a hold of our shyt, they make it work for them, against us.... The bible..Religion and spirituality in general, is just another example of that

 

[Everythingg]

Okay and your point is. They could have written it later to justify their conquest. The stories exist to convince other peoples that the land belonged to them and that it was sanctioned by "God" and to promote prophecy.

They wrote it thousands of years ago for this purpose? They knew that other nations would read their texts and take them serious enough to be "convinced" of them based on what?

You're talking about moral stories...what?!

You know... Stories where lessons can be learned?

To avoid your sidestepping I'll just say let's focus on the base of their religious ideology as contained in the T portion of the T-N-Kh called Torah (called Pentateuch by Greeks) which you can't deny is propaganda that justifies their conquests. When is was written down matters not, because we can go read what it says and clearly extract the ideology for ourselves.

You can repeat what you've already said, but it still doesnt make sense. It didnt need to be written in "Moses'" time because it would make no sense to create such stories to get the land they already wanted. If you want an excuse to not believe in God, you can do better than that..

And then theres the Mishnah and Gemara, but Ill leave that alone for now.

Good....

 

[Thsnnor]

The Bible was written by 40 authors over 1500 years. The Torah and the Law books of the Bible are reflected as later generations knew what was in them. Joshua war around with Moses and Aaron and if something was out of line they would have known.

Other books were not written over that time frame.
Mormom - One life time.
Koran - One life time.
Buddist - One life time.
Hunduism - One life time.

Time is getting short in these streets. Seek the truth.