Charles Barkley - "The NBA is the worst it's ever been"

[Illuminatos]

You started off good. Ain't nobody watching no wizards, sac, damn sure not hornets, bucs, sixers or timberwolves games. And nobody sees them anywhere close to competitive to the top teams


Keep making my point tho

There's no need to watch those teams since you can go on YouTube and watch player highlights.Best believe people are watching highlights of the young players like Giannis and KAT.
And stop it, nobody in the 90s was watching any damn Nuggets games to see Mutumbo.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

There's no need to watch those teams since you can go on YouTube and watch player highlights.Best believe people are watching highlights of the young players like Giannis and KAT.
And stop it, nobody in the 90s was watching any damn Nuggets games to see Mutumbo.

So now youtube highlights is a good league?

fukk the entire game. We gonna tune into 5 min clips of one player and determine that the league is doing great right now



Y'all arguing all the wrong points. Are the players better skills wise. Yes

Is the parity of the teams better. No

Are the games of the regular season more watchable. No



You're talking about someone who HAS to watch ALL these games in order to do his job. Not YouTube clips.

Imagine having to watch 10 games a night of these bullshyt ass teams. You gotta put some context to what he said.

 

[Walt]

So now youtube highlights is a good league?

fukk the entire game. We gonna tune into 5 min clips of one player and determine that the league is doing great right now



Y'all arguing all the wrong points. Are the players better skills wise. Yes

Is the parity of the teams better. No

Are the games of the regular season more watchable. No



You're talking about someone who HAS to watch ALL these games in order to do his job. Not YouTube clips.

Imagine having to watch 10 games a night of these bullshyt ass teams. You gotta put some context to what he said.

Please tell me you're not talking about Charles Barkley.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

Please tell me you're not talking about Charles Barkley.

You think an NBA commentator doesn't have to watch NBA games for his job breh?

He just chills at home and shows up and talks about shyt he hasn't ever laid eyes on?

On that note, I'm out

 

[Big Boss]

The 90's hawks . They never even reached the conference finals . The Magic had a 2 year window to compete for a title . The Knicks second best player was John fukking Starks . The pacers second best player averaged similar numbers on the career to Roy hibbert. Their best player never even made an all NBA second team and couldn't even create 20% of the shots he made on the career :lolsheed:

I guess the clippers gon be like the 90s hawks years from now

 

[Walt]

You think an NBA commentator doesn't have to watch NBA games for his job breh?

He just chills at home and shows up and talks about shyt he hasn't ever laid eyes on?

On that note, I'm out

I cannot imagine what state of reality you exist in, dog. You believe a degenerate drunk with the intellect of a loaf of bread who barely pays attention to the games he is in studio for actually watches all the games?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[#1 pick]

You started off good. Ain't nobody watching no wizards, sac, damn sure not hornets, bucs, sixers or timberwolves games. And nobody sees them anywhere close to competitive to the top teams


Keep making my point tho

I watch the Wizards, Sac, Sixers and Wolves.

 

[Farrinto]

sixers or timberwolves games

I just watched the Sixers play the T'Wolves

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Dankster is on point but Barkley would be special in the era and just like any era, the culture is forced on you. The ain't shyt, I just want to do it my way, I am just hooping culture of the 90s is not here today so Barkley would adjust. Freak athletes like Chuck would still stand out in any era if channeled the right way. So while I see what you are saying about McHale and some others, for Chuck, he would have adapted like others in this generation have. No matter what, this game is still dominated by freak athletes and Chuck was one of them.

You need to watch what happens on the high school level more. Every year there are hundreds of great athletes who never make The Game because they're too lazy or too dumb or too undisciplined. Yes, the culture is far more oriented towards disciplined play and having to work hard on your game, but lazy guys stay lazy. Barkley had plenty of reasons to work harder - he never won a ring and only made one Finals. If he wasn't willing to work harder to push through then, why now? For every 10 lazy freak athletes, there are another 10 highly disciplined ones. A Kawhi for every Beasley.

Barkley wouldn't have been great in this league unless he controlled his weight AND developed a better jumper AND played defense on a regular basis. Being a mini-Zach Randolph isn't getting you anywhere - he'd have to aim for something closer to a big Dwyane Wade to be a superstar. I have a hard time seeing it.

The pool of talent is ten times larger than when Barkley was recruited, so there are ten times as many freak athletes. In small pools you occasionally see a Wilt or a Jordan who'd be special even now. But most guys who were at the very top before would be one of many today. It's basic math.

You're talking having to be disciplined in his eating/drinking AND practicing his shot regularly AND bringing it on both ends every game. Those are three different kinds of discipline, and for a fat drunk whose teammates said came to practice 3 times in 2 years and didn't try on defense until the end of games, I don't see it.

but why would mchale have struggled? 6'10, freakish long arms, very good jump shot and arguably the goat post game.

McHale didn't have a great jumper - it was fair, would definitely be below average for a four today. And being 6'10", 210lbs with a great post game just doesn't get you as far today when you're an average athlete, for reasons I already mentioned.

I mean, his post game was great, but he couldn't even finish with his left and he hardly dribbled. Think about that. How is his 210lb body even getting positions inside, and how easy is it to shade a guy when you always know which hand he'll use and that he's not going to put it on the floor? It's just that defensive understanding is far beyond what it was back then, and the number of stiff big men to abuse far lower.

Look at Al Jefferson. Jefferson's post game is every bit as good as McHale's was, he's stronger than McHale was, more explosive, and he's over 50 pounds heavier than McHale.

McHale "looked" better than Jefferson does today because he did those moves first and he went up against a lot of undersized and less athletic stiffs. But Jefferson has at least as many moves with a much stronger, bigger body to control defenders with...and he's still just Al Jefferson, a guy who has only broke 20ppg three times in his career and none of those with over 50% shooting.

Give McHale the exact same role on the teams as Jefferson, and he's just not getting the position as a 210lb skinny White guy that a far more powerful 265lb player is getting....and even when he does get position his efficiency is going to drop remarkably because the zone defenses on the interior are going to kill a guy who is only using one hand and ain't putting the ball on the floor. It's hard to see exactly what his role is in the modern NBA.

You're talking about someone who HAS to watch ALL these games in order to do his job. Not YouTube clips.

Imagine having to watch 10 games a night of these bullshyt ass teams. You gotta put some context to what he said.

You think an NBA commentator doesn't have to watch NBA games for his job breh?

He just chills at home and shows up and talks about shyt he hasn't ever laid eyes on?

Anyone e who has ever heard Barkley speak, and still believes that he watches every game and preps for his job, should probably stay quiet in bball discussions.





Okay, done for this thread for real now.

 

[#1 pick]

I don't know Dankster, you bring up excellent points which are hard to refute but I am like a lot of other guys. You can't deny Barkley had top 25 all time talent. There aren't many players with his strength, explosiveness, quickness, rebounding instincts, scoring prowess, length or feel for the game. Barkley for all it's worth was pretty good at positioning as well and he could move off the ball well early in his career. I see your point but Barkley was an anomaly and that's what this game is all about. Are you an anomaly? With today's training regime and coaching, I am sure he could have developed other aspects of the game. He simply was a freak. One of the few that we seen in the 90's. To say he wouldn't have made it just isn't true. There are not many Barkley's in any generation. Those are rarities.

Beasley was never an athletic freak, he was extremely skilled. He was what guys like Derrick Coleman was. He wasn't fit to play in today's NBA. He was for the 90's era. Barkley is fit for any era. He's an anomaly.

 

[King Jove]

I watch the Wizards, Sac, Sixers and Wolves.

Seriously.

I don't think some of these dudes are basketball fans. They're just fans of superstar basketball players.

Young teams with young emerging stars are fun to watch for me.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

You need to watch what happens on the high school level more. Every year there are hundreds of great athletes who never make The Game because they're too lazy or too dumb or too undisciplined. Yes, the culture is far more oriented towards disciplined play and having to work hard on your game, but lazy guys stay lazy. Barkley had plenty of reasons to work harder - he never won a ring and only made one Finals. If he wasn't willing to work harder to push through then, why now? For every 10 lazy freak athletes, there are another 10 highly disciplined ones. A Kawhi for every Beasley.

Barkley wouldn't have been great in this league unless he controlled his weight AND developed a better jumper AND played defense on a regular basis. Being a mini-Zach Randolph isn't getting you anywhere - he'd have to aim for something closer to a big Dwyane Wade to be a superstar. I have a hard time seeing it.

The pool of talent is ten times larger than when Barkley was recruited, so there are ten times as many freak athletes. In small pools you occasionally see a Wilt or a Jordan who'd be special even now. But most guys who were at the very top before would be one of many today. It's basic math.

You're talking having to be disciplined in his eating/drinking AND practicing his shot regularly AND bringing it on both ends every game. Those are three different kinds of discipline, and for a fat drunk whose teammates said came to practice 3 times in 2 years and didn't try on defense until the end of games, I don't see it.






McHale didn't have a great jumper - it was fair, would definitely be below average for a four today. And being 6'10", 210lbs with a great post game just doesn't get you as far today when you're an average athlete, for reasons I already mentioned.

I mean, his post game was great, but he couldn't even finish with his left and he hardly dribbled. Think about that. How is his 210lb body even getting positions inside, and how easy is it to shade a guy when you always know which hand he'll use and that he's not going to put it on the floor? It's just that defensive understanding is far beyond what it was back then, and the number of stiff big men to abuse far lower.

Look at Al Jefferson. Jefferson's post game is every bit as good as McHale's was, he's stronger than McHale was, more explosive, and he's over 50 pounds heavier than McHale.

McHale "looked" better than Jefferson does today because he did those moves first and he went up against a lot of undersized and less athletic stiffs. But Jefferson has at least as many moves with a much stronger, bigger body to control defenders with...and he's still just Al Jefferson, a guy who has only broke 20ppg three times in his career and none of those with over 50% shooting.

Give McHale the exact same role on the teams as Jefferson, and he's just not getting the position as a 210lb skinny White guy that a far more powerful 265lb player is getting....and even when he does get position his efficiency is going to drop remarkably because the zone defenses on the interior are going to kill a guy who is only using one hand and ain't putting the ball on the floor. It's hard to see exactly what his role is in the modern NBA.










Anyone e who has ever heard Barkley speak, and still believes that he watches every game and preps for his job, should probably stay quiet in bball discussions.





Okay, done for this thread for real now.

Seriously.

I don't think some of these dudes are basketball fans. They're just fans of superstar basketball players.

Young teams with young emerging stars are fun to watch for me.

that's the problem i think we are having here... people keep trying to regulate the convo to the coli


shyt i'm the one who said it and i'm a damn sixers fan... yes I watch the games... what's the rest of the world doing?


it's amazing to me how everyone on the coli is smarter than everyone else who lives and breathes this shyt for a living

it would be in the best interest of everyone involved, to say this nba is the greatest of all time. it would make people wonder "hmm is it" and tune it.. it would build the hype machine.. which means more viewers, more ticket sales, more money, bigger tv contracts, bigger contracts for those covering the sport, both tv, print and internet



and yet, not just barkley... nobody is saying that.. not the damn commissioner.. not the owners.. not the former players.. not even the current players (except golden state last year before they blew 3-1 lead)


nobody on the coli played one second of nba ball... probably no D1 college ball either.. but the second a hall of fame coach or player says "you know basketball was better when........" suddenly that person don't know shyt about ball, don't watch as much ball as us, don't know the levels of high school ball, is just a hater, etc etc etc... the media who would be idiots to shyt on the current league cause that league diminishing would mean their jobs, still ain't agreeing with this being the best era ever... shyt they ain't even playing and i know they more involved in the sport than us... and yet they just don't know what they talking about either huh



so i guess the entire world has gotten together to shyt on the current state of basketball, even though that doesn't help them in any way, in order to do what exactly?

 

[Illin Degenerate]

McHale didn't have a great jumper - it was fair, would definitely be below average for a four today. And being 6'10", 210lbs with a great post game just doesn't get you as far today when you're an average athlete, for reasons I already mentioned..

you seem obsessed with listed weights as if they never changed throughout an athlete's career. mchale was never a huge guy, but his game was never built on simply backing a guy down so whats your point? barkley would have to be dwayne wade, and al jefferson is mchale's superior, its one thing to say you think today's basketball is better but you take it too far. every single player supposedly has a similar superior.

"He became the most difficult low-post player to defend -- once he made the catch -- in the history of the league," contended former NBA coach Hubie Brown in the Boston Globe. "He was totally unstoppable because of his quickness, diversification of moves and the long arms that gave him an angle to release the ball over a taller man or more explosive jumper."
^but naw he'd be powerless vs zones. he went up in the finals vs a front line of ralph sampson and hakeem olajuwon, but the height and athletes of today would be too much for him.

 

[Jplaya2023]

you seem obsessed with listed weights as if they never changed throughout an athlete's career. mchale was never a huge guy, but his game was never built on simply backing a guy down so whats your point? barkley would have to be dwayne wade, and al jefferson is mchale's superior, its one thing to say you think today's basketball is better but you take it too far. every single player supposedly has a similar superior.

"He became the most difficult low-post player to defend -- once he made the catch -- in the history of the league," contended former NBA coach Hubie Brown in the Boston Globe. "He was totally unstoppable because of his quickness, diversification of moves and the long arms that gave him an angle to release the ball over a taller man or more explosive jumper."
^but naw he'd be powerless vs zones. he went up in the finals vs a front line of ralph sampson and hakeem olajuwon, but the height and athletes of today would be too much for him.

nikkas go overboard with the stanning of these nikkas in the nba today. lol @ al jefferson having comparable post game to kevin mchale and using his weight as a reason

 

[The_Third_Man]

Why are y'all comparing those teams to current teams


Let's looks at the quote for the 10th time

The NBA sucks cause it's only 3-4 good teams and the rest are trash


Did he say the 90s teams could beat these teams? Hell nah.


What he is saying is 26 teams in the league ain't worth shyt compared to the 3-4 good teams and it makes it completely trash to watch.


Now you might not think watching prime Jordan, Ewing, Olajuwon, Shaq, Miller, Malone, Barkley, Stockton, Payton.... to be followed by prime Kobe, Garnett, mutumbo, carter, iverson, Allen, etc was good competition.........

but to the rest of the basketball world. From the dudes playing now to the coaches to media to owners. It was fukking amazing


Now who we watching? The spurs, the warriors, the cavs and maybe the clippers


That's it. Ain't nobody tuning in to the sixers and the bucs like they would if it was Allen vs iverson. Nobody watching the nuggets vs the jazz like mutumbo vs Malone. Nobody is watching the fukking pacers.

Not only are they not watching it. They don't even care about the entire regular season anymore until the playoffs start. And even then they pretty much got the finals locked up.

And that's been the case since before the season started


That's a good league to you


In comparison look at the NFL. nikkas will literally watch ANY football game. Don't matter who playing. Don't matter where in the season. It will be watched by nikkas who don't even know who's playing the game.


NBA wishes it could have that. Soon as you hear. Oh it's the heat vs the nuggets. Channel changed

no it definitely wasn't amazing to the media, coaches, and old players when Allen Iverson, and the others were dominating. They called them selfish crybabies without any love or understanding about basketball and care about nothing but their money. People used to say the NBA isn't the same anymore. Nothing new.

what are you basing "what teams the fans are watching" on? you saying fans only care the Warriors, Spurs, Cavs and maybe Clippers because they're the teams with the best records, but then when you talk about the late 90s/early 00s, you mentioned players who weren't always playing for great teams. Iverson & Mutombo were real contenders for only one year. KG, Allen and Kobe played for some bad (and some lucky) teams in their careers. so winning shouldn't be the criteria of your "who's watching" argument .

And some of these players/teams weren't all great at the SAME time. You can't compare 5-10 seasons to half-season. Or in that case, you should consider OKC, Bulls, Pacers, Rockets, Grizzlies as part of "this" era too.

If you basing this on talent which makes more sense, then there's still a lot of talent in the league thats worth watching. You got Harden, Butler, Cousins, Anthony Davis, Westbrook, the Greek, Parker, the Raptors backcourt, Lillard, Kat & Wiggins, KP, Embiid, Gobert, PG...etc.

@ "Nobody watching the nuggets vs the jazz like mutumbo vs Malone"
who the fukk was watching Mutumbo?