Charles Barkley - "The NBA is the worst it's ever been"
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The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
but that's not what he said.... of course you going to have the best teamsYeah let's go back to the 90's when the Bulls and Rockets combined for 8/10 titles in the decade. Or the 80s where the champion was a flip of the coin between the Celtics and Lakers. Do these old nikkas even think?
what he said was 26 out of the 30 are shytty teams... can you make a point that he's wrong abou that?
jordan and magic and them might have been trading rings every year... but there was a shytload of good teams out there too
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
no because jordan was facing GOOD teams... y'all missing the point
jordan was out there kicking ass, but the 90s knicks were not a cupcake team... neither were the 90s pacers.. or the 90s heat... or magic... or hawks
every single of those teams had hall of famers on the squad and a few all stars... what we got now?
what all time nba team did lebron go through? you think you gonna be playing 2k25 and they'll have the 16 raptors up in there
Are those nikkas in the league right now?
You naming random nikkas that suck at three pointers as your proof that light skinned nikkas running the league but it's Bullshyt.
You didn't say shyt about young players or anything, dumbass
Season has been pretty 
tbh
Maybe we will get a little more intrigue after all star break... But it honestly feels like we are just sleepwalking until we get the Cavs/War championship part III. And even then, cant say that I am excited to see that series again
tbhMaybe we will get a little more intrigue after all star break... But it honestly feels like we are just sleepwalking until we get the Cavs/War championship part III. And even then, cant say that I am excited to see that series again
Dark is the night
You Dont Eyeball Me Boy
Booker, Curry, Klay were all in the 3 point contest last year dumb nikka
It's not like Barkley isn't smaller, slower, and less athletic than Lebron, with worse ball handling and a worse shot and worse bball IQ, but he'd magically beat the same defenders as Lebron because... magic era dust.
Barkley looked better because he went up against worse defenders. That's all.
Kevin McHale was arguably the best post player in his era. 6'10", 210 lb power forward scoring 20+ a game (26ppg one year) and making 1st team all-defense in Barkley's era.
McHale didn't have any special athleticism. He was skinny 6'10" White guy. You don't think there aren't 100,000 tall guys in the world? You don't think ONE of them would be able to learn post moves and dominate like McHale?
It's not a global conspiracy against learning post moves. It's that on the modern NBA, so much is working against you (the zones and defensive scheming and improved athleticism of the opponents) that some skinny White dude isn't going to dominate on post skills alone any more.
The crap opponents that Barkley dominated were just as bad as the ones McHale dominated. And if a skinny 6'10" White guy can't dominate the NBA on post moves alone anymore, why would a fat 6'5" Black guy with inferior post moves to him be able?
Oh, I remember, because in the 1990s there was magic.
Because as shooting improves, shooting defense HAS to improve unless teams just give up.
What you're claiming is the opposite... You're claiming that post defense regressed, so that post offense could be even more dominant... but then post offense mysteriously regressed too right at the moment that it would be most effective.
Global conspiracy? Someone destroyed all the tapes? No one knows how to make Barkley-level post moves anymore because it was a secret science?
I can explain why shooting improved - more guys started leaning younger and good technique is taught earlier, so the talent pool is bigger.
I can explain why post play diminished in importance - because modern defences and defensive rules close it off, and there are fewer total stiffs to abuse down low.
You can't explain how, with a much larger pool of talent, hundreds of millions of guys who would kill to go to the NBA, all the tapes on deck, and supposedly worse post defense, that the 6'5" fat guys and 6'10" skinny White guys aren't dominating the NBA in the post anymore.
Athletic skills only regress when they become less useful or a sport becomes less popular.
no because jordan was facing GOOD teams... y'all missing the point
jordan was out there kicking ass, but the 90s knicks were not a cupcake team... neither were the 90s pacers.. or the 90s heat... or magic... or hawks
every single of those teams had hall of famers on the squad and a few all stars... what we got now?
what all time nba team did lebron go through? you think you gonna be playing 2k25 and they'll have the 16 raptors up in there
Lebron beat the Durant-Westbrook-Harden-Ibaka Thunder, the Duncan-Parker-Kawhi-Ginobli Spurs, the Pierce-Garnett-Allen-Rondo Celtics, the Rose-Deng-Boozer-Noah Bulls, and the Curry-Green-Thompson-Iggy Warriors.
But you're bragging about the 1990s Hawks and Knicks. Teams that had John Starks or Christian Laettner leading in scoring.
1990s Pacers dominated by HOF Reggie Miller are the toughest team Jordan beat some years. In 2016, a player better than Reggie in every way (Klay - better shot, better handles, better passes, and FAR better defense) is the 3rd or 4th most important player on the team Lebron beat.
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The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
and barkley said 4 good teams.... you named 5
4 of which ain't even teams anymore
so in a sense you just made his point... cause again.. he didn't say all the players and team and the game was trash
he said the game has about 3-4 good teams and THE REST OF THE TEAMS are trash
i still haven't heard anyone name more than the same exact 3-4 teams that are good this year
Nah players nowadays are way more talented than before. (In general)
The only thing missing are characters and rivalries. Nikkas in the nba either are friendly af or just fukk boys
Edit: they aren't necessarily more 'talented' but definitely more skilled
The only thing missing are characters and rivalries. Nikkas in the nba either are friendly af or just fukk boys
Edit: they aren't necessarily more 'talented' but definitely more skilled
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Illin Degenerate
All Star
you say why arent there thousands of barkleys and mchales running around now? because those were special players, the same reason they was only one barkley and mchale then. so now youre attacking mchale and barkley, whats your critique on how karl malone would also be marginalized? i need a good laugh.
i can sum up a response to all your current propaganda easily, because the inside players today arent as good. are you going to argue that the centers from today could be just as good as hakeem, they've just chosen now to over the past few years. once again your logic is blinded by your bias, if defenders havent seen good post play, theyre not going to be used to defending it. post play itself suffered so individual defenders and teams themselves arent spending time on how to stop bums in the post.
your desire to make it seem like every single aspect of basketball now is the best its ever been is clouding your judgement. your logic is basically dwight howard could be more skilled in the post, but the genius modern player he is, he realizes it would be a waste of time. why are joel embiid and karl anthony towns already more skilled in the post than dwight, did noone tell them such skills were obsolete?
If that's all you are trying to prove, that was taken care of the first four pages. There have been LOTS of years where only 2-4 teams had a serious chance at the title, and some where there were more. That's always been true. Cherry-picking one year from the 1990s and comparing it to one year now is meaningless.
I'm not going to drown in low-quality arguments this year, so I'm done with this thread.
Bookmark and tag me when a fat 6'5" lazy player who doesn't try on D wins MVP on the strength of his post game. When a 210 lb White guy with suspect athleticism is a dominant post player on title teams. And when having two 6'2" 35-year-old White Americans as your clear #2 and #3 can get you to back-to-back Finals and threaten to go 7 games against four HOFers including the GOAT.
Until those unlikely things happen, I'll hold that there wasn't any magic dust floating around in the 1990s, and the huge increase in talent pool and improvement in talent development really does mean that the field is just too strong now to allow it.
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Naw, I watched all of those games. The iso Joe/Crawford and the 60 win Hawk team was vastly better.That Mutumbo/Mookie Hawks team were contenders
That team had three very good players for its time in Mookie, Smitty and Deke. But after that it was weak. The bench was horrible. Bad for its time, horrendous for this generation. The NBA lacked a lot of depth back then and the NBA lacked a lot of polish in the early 2000s. This is by far the best NBA product ever all around. That's why teams need big threes and key role players. Back in the days, you had a squad of two stars or superstars if you are the Bulls. One very good player, two to three key role players and the quality drops tremendously from there. Just a much better talent pool these days.
Those teams weren't that good either. That's the issue. You got the Bulls with two superstars, nice players around the superstars. A bench stud in Toni and you expect anyone to beat them is insane. Especially with no zone defense, how do you stop Jordan or Pippen? Most contending teams in the 90s didn't have but one superstar and two stars. The bad and average ones didn't even have a star.no because jordan was facing GOOD teams... y'all missing the point
jordan was out there kicking ass, but the 90s knicks were not a cupcake team... neither were the 90s pacers.. or the 90s heat... or magic... or hawks
every single of those teams had hall of famers on the squad and a few all stars... what we got now?
what all time nba team did lebron go through? you think you gonna be playing 2k25 and they'll have the 16 raptors up in there
It was a weak era. The crack cocaine era of the mid to late 80 ruined the 90s and Jordan benefited from that. I mean, Vince Carter had a superior statistical career to Reggie Miller. This was a star of the 90s. Lowry is putting up better numbers than any PG in the 90s. shyt, this generation of front office and analytics guys have really changed what the NBA is and on top of that, this is by far the most work ethic the league has ever had.
It's usually a pretty lazy league where in the summer guys would play pick up and tournaments. Now everyone doing some crazy training and has personal coaches and team coaches developing them. To think this started in the early 2000s with Mark Cuban.
Dankster is on point but Barkley would be special in the era and just like any era, the culture is forced on you. The ain't shyt, I just want to do it my way, I am just hooping culture of the 90s is not here today so Barkley would adjust. Freak athletes like Chuck would still stand out in any era if channeled the right way. So while I see what you are saying about McHale and some others, for Chuck, he would have adapted like others in this generation have. No matter what, this game is still dominated by freak athletes and Chuck was one of them.
