Classics Discussion: Jay-Z

[Billy Ocean]

I actually think TBA was more of a return to form before AG. TBA wasn't necessarily RD level of lyricism but it was awfully close. I think Jay-Z was at his most complete on that album. But The Blueprint is more of a classic in the sense of influence. And yeah AG stays underrated. Great album.

The Black Album has a lot of brilliant moments but I think a few of the tracks on there are just ok, to just wack (Change Clothes, Dirt of Your Shoulders, Lucifer, Justify My Thug). Just wasn't that consistently great throughout for me to call it a classic. Lyrically Jay definitely brought it though, I agree. I say American Gangster is like a return to form because his album before is named a lot in talks about Jay's worst album (Kingdom Come).

 

[Harry B]

I'm conflicted about Vol. 2.
Every single song will be here for a very long time as a classic album, imo it's classic in the same way as GRODT is classic but it's not a 5 mic "real classic". Other than that BP, RD and TBA. AG is dope as fukk but probably not a classic.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

The Black Album has a lot of brilliant moments but I think a few of the tracks on there are just ok, to just wack (Change Clothes, Dirt of Your Shoulders, Lucifer, Justify My Thug). Just wasn't that consistently great throughout for me to call it a classic. Lyrically Jay definitely brought it though, I agree.

I disagree about the wack songs....the only one that might be the case is Change Clothes but the production is so superior on this album it offsets the minimal flaws in various songs.

But respect anyway.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

I'm conflicted about Vol. 2.
Every single song will be here for a very long time as a classic album, imo it's classic in the same way as GRODT is classic but it's not a 5 mic "real classic". Other than that BP, RD and TBA. AG is dope as fukk but probably not a classic.

remember quality is the MAIN factor imo. So if it isn't a 5 mic type thing it probably doesn't belong. We're only trying to get the best of the best albums.

 

[blazn101]

Blue Print and Reasonable Doubt i put up there.

The production and lyrics were just..

 

[Piff Perkins]

Definitely Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint. Honestly I think I like The Black Album more than Blueprint song for song but it's not a classic. The Blueprint had an undeniable impact on the genre whereas The Black Album didn't.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Definitely Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint. Honestly I think I like The Black Album more than Blueprint song for song but it's not a classic. The Blueprint had an undeniable impact on the genre whereas The Black Album didn't.

But I still think TBA had a lot of impact through 99 Problems alone, and then on top of that Dirt Off Your Shoulder and Change Clothes etc. More importantly, I still feel it has stood the test of time maybe better than any other Jay album so its relevance is right up there.

But I guess it depends on your definition of classic.

 

[CrimsonTider]

Classic: 1. An album considered by consensus of the core hip hop community to be of the highest quality (doesn't have to be perfect or flawless, just an album that the consensus deems the shyt).
2. Assuming that condition 1 is met, is this an album that has stood the test of time amongst the core hip hop community? Is that an album still held in high regard, still referenced at least ten years after its release? By a consensus of the hip hop community?

This definition is legitimate bullshyt. where is the thread where you ask people to define it?

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

This definition is legitimate bullshyt. where is the thread where you ask people to define it?

I'll link you that thread in a minute.

That's the definition I PERSONALLY have chosen to run with. I didn't ask everyone in this thread to stick to that definition and apply it, so it's not like it's a detriment to the results whatsoever.

Anyway, what's your issue with the definition?

EDIT: here's the thread: The Official 'Classic Album' Discussion Thread

 

[Harry B]

Regarding that consensus thing, it's pretty hard. Say an album like Soul on Ice, people who have heard it might call it a classic but not too many people have heard it. While 10 million might call Take Care a classic, while 1 million will say that it's ass and 1 million say that it's somewhere between ass and classic.

Or something like TM101, 50 % of the game might say that it's classic and the other 50 % might say that it's not.

IMO there are several definitions of what a classic is, it can be consensus that it's a 5 mic classic, that it defines an era, changed music, had huge social impact or a bunch of different things.

 

[mobbinfms]

This definition is legitimate bullshyt. where is the thread where you ask people to define it?

It's my definition.

 

[mobbinfms]

Regarding that consensus thing, it's pretty hard. Say an album like Soul on Ice, people who have heard it might call it a classic but not too many people have heard it. While 10 million might call Take Care a classic, while 1 million will say that it's ass and 1 million say that it's somewhere between ass and classic.

Or something like TM101, 50 % of the game might say that it's classic and the other 50 % might say that it's not.

IMO there are several definitions of what a classic is, it can be consensus that it's a 5 mic classic, that it defines an era, changed music, had huge social impact or a bunch of different things.

There aren't 10 million core hip hop fans. Probably not even a million.

 

[lucky lefty]

RD is the holy grail of hip hop lyricism. Hov was inna diff universe wit the shyt he spit & really captured the essence of the introspective NYC hustler in such a unique, mature way.

BP is one of the best put together albums ever. It's not Hov @ his best bars or delivery wise, but the amazing beats combined with very dope lyricism & laid back, almost conversational flows created one of the GOAT listening experiences. The fact he essentially made it in one wkend wit Just & Ye is mindboggling.

TBA is Hov's magnum opus & one of if not the GOAT rap album. It's Jay's best performance in terms of finding that sweet spot where his lyricism & flows are both arguably @ their peak, the content is the perfect blend of both street savy Jigga & CEO Hov, & the producers laced him proper. It's not only the essential Hov album it's the essential rap album.

No AG so I voted Vol 1. Sunshine being a visual abomination doesn't take away from it being a dope song & the audio abomiantion that is IKWGL ain't enough to cancel out the greatness of the other tracks. Lyrically Hov isn't far removed from RD, his flow was much smoother, & content wise it's the last time we heard from one-foot-still-in-the-streets Jigga. A Million/Rhyme No More, Where I'm From, Imaginary Player, Friend or Foe, Streets Is Watching, Lucky Me, Who U Wit, U Must Love Me are amongst the brightest jewels in Hov's crown.

Edit: Thread reminded me why Hov is undoubtedly the GOAT of this rap shyt.

 

[phatphuck]

i gave it to rd and bp
bp is really just borderline but i'll let it slide after the discussion in the other thread
tba to me is a solid collection of songs, its the kind of album i could play from time to time and enjoy, but i wont be able to keep it in constant rotation without skipping some tracks

 

[FlyRy]

I got Blueprint and RD as classics. My two fav Jigga albums and you can't argue their quality and cultural impact. My 3rd is American Gangster. That album is so smooth and cohesive and was sort of Jay's return to form lyrically. I'll forever feel Black Album is slightly overrated. Dope album but I don't feel it's as great as some consider it and a lot the hype it generated was because of Jay's retirement propaganda.

American Gangster not being an option is a crime