Democrats point to Nordic nations as models of socialism & Healthcare; Here’s how they actually work

[Secure Da Bag]

You wouldn't vote against UHC over illegal immigrants potentially getting service.

If someone had a plan for illegal immigrants to be serviced separately, I'd vote for that.

The government is already paying 2bn a year to cover them. I haven't heard anyone complain about it.

Not everyone is being forced to pay for them.

 

[Pressure]

If someone had a plan for illegal immigrants to be serviced separately, I'd vote for that.




Not everyone is being forced to pay for them.

Everyone who pays taxes is.

And there's no proposal out there showing what elegibility requirements for non citizens. I imagine it won't be too dissimilar to those that already cover poor children

 

[BoBurnz]

I mean you get care in any other western country on earth if you're not a citizen I don't really see the meaningful distinction to applying it here.

 

[F K]

I don't care what you call it just give it to me. strong unions, universal healthcare, higher wages.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

"Technically those countries aren't socialist."

"Oh good, so we could adopt their policies and it wouldn't be socialism."

"NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

Exactly what I thought.

 

[DEAD7]

"Oh good, so we could adopt their policies and it wouldn't be socialism."

I don't care what you call it just give it to me. strong unions, universal healthcare, higher wages.

Do you want less regulation, less gun control, reduced wealth taxes, greater concentration in the banking sector, and my personal favorite abolishment of the minimum wage?
Or are you cherry picking through the Nordic model and dishonestly claiming you want what is working for them?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Do you want less regulation, less gun control, reduced wealth taxes, greater concentration in the banking sector, and my personal favorite abolishment of the minimum wage?
Or are you cherry picking through the Nordic model and dishonestly claiming you want what is working for them?

Nearly all of those talking points are either incorrect, limited to one Nordic country, or wildly out of context.

 

[DonKnock]

I mean you get care in any other western country on earth if you're not a citizen I don't really see the meaningful distinction to applying it here.

Like I am actually supposed to be out here angry as fucc that my tax money is going to help a Honduran migrant get medical treatment rather than getting Jerry Jones his 5th mega yacht and Blackwater or whatever the fucc they call it now another unnecessary weapon

 

[DEAD7]

Nearly all of those talking points are either incorrect, limited to one Nordic country, or wildly out of context.

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Switzerland all have no minimum wage... my point is when progressives say "adopt their model" do they mean 'adopt their model'? or are they cherry picking the aspects of the Nordic economies they like?

Regressive relatively flat tax rates
Higher economic freedom

Little product market regulation

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Switzerland all have no minimum wage... my point is when progressives say "adopt their model" do they mean 'adopt their model'? or are they cherry picking the aspects of the Nordic economies they like?

Regressive relatively flat tax rates
Higher economic freedom

Little product market regulation

Again, those talking points are so distorted as to be meaningless.

Sweden doesn't a federal minimum wage because strong national workers unions set industry-wide minimum wage for every industry. Even fast food workers and hotel employees make close to $15/hour minimum.

Federal gun laws in Scandinavia are generally stricter than USA, not looser

Most Scandinavian nations are part of the EU which has greater product market regulation than the USA in many respects. In others, the union power and strong stakeholder economic model creates stronger industry standards absent in USA.

Sweden can have fairly flat-looking taxes as all kinds income up to something like $60,000 is free of federal taxes. Finland has very progressive tax structure. And heavily subsidized basic services make the system far more progressive than taxes alone an demonstrate.

Economic freedom is indeed generally higher, in large part that's due to the political lobby system and corporate crony American laws which create obstacles to smaller businesses in order to advantage powerful ones. But some aspects of what are called "barriers to economic freedom" on the USA, like environmental protection, are strong in Nordic countries.

That's what I mean by context.

 

[DEAD7]

Sweden doesn't a federal minimum wage because strong national workers unions set industry-wide minimum wage for every industry. Even fast food workers and hotel employees make close to $15/hour minimum.

Most Scandinavian nations are part of the EU which has greater product market regulation than the USA in many respects. In others, the union power and strong stakeholder economic model creates stronger industry standards absent in USA.

Sweden can have fairly flat-looking taxes as all kinds income up to something like $60,000 is free of federal taxes.

Economic freedom is indeed generally higher, in large part that's due to the political lobby system and corporate crony American laws which create obstacles to smaller businesses in order to advantage powerful ones. But some aspects of what are called "barriers to economic freedom" in the USA, like environmental protection, are strong in Nordic countries.

This sounds amazing! Why aren't progressives truly pushing for the Nordic model???

Scandinavian capitalism is much more appealing than the "socialist" aspects Bernie is focused on.

 

[F K]

This sounds amazing! Why aren't progressives truly pushing for the Nordic model???

Scandinavian capitalism is much more appealing than the "socialist" aspects Bernie is focused on.

progressives would love strong unions (the nordic model doesn't work without it) , it's libertarians and conservatives who keep union busting and weakening labor with propaganda and shytty laws. Besides like I said, your type in the U.S approaches this stuff dishonestly and calls everything socialism.

Right wingers and free marketeers in the U.S called OBAMACARE socialism for forcing people to buy PRIVATE insurance. stop with the intellectually dishonest buzzwords and acknowledge the political climate progressives have to deal with.

 

[DEAD7]

progressives would love strong unions (the nordic model doesn't work without it) , it's libertarians and conservatives who keep union busting and weakening labor with propaganda and shytty laws. Besides like I said, your type in the U.S approaches this stuff dishonestly and calls everything socialism.

Right wingers and free marketeers in the U.S called OBAMACARE socialism for forcing people to buy PRIVATE insurance. stop with the intellectually dishonest buzzwords and acknowledge the political climate progressives have to deal with.

You can remove strong unions and replace it with any of the progressive policies being pushed...the current climate is a weak excuse
What is it about fully applying the Nordic model that progressives are against/hesitant about? More economic freedom and abolishing the fed min wage isn’t opposed by libertarians... nor is the strengthening of private sector unions.
Stop cherry picking the shyt and push for the actual model. It’s more capitalist than what we currently have in the states... and should be sold as such.


Govt. mandated purchases are going to be despised and resisted though.
#thisisamerica

 

[DonKnock]

You can remove strong unions and replace it with any of the progressive policies being pushed...the current climate is a weak excuse
What is it about fully applying the Nordic model that progressives are against/hesitant about? More economic freedom and abolishing the fed min wage isn’t opposed by libertarians... nor is the strengthening of private sector unions.
Stop cherry picking the shyt and push for the actual model. It’s more capitalist than what we currently have in the states... and should be sold as such.


Govt. mandated purchases are going to be despised and resisted though.
#thisisamerica

“Strong unions are irrelevant!, it’s more capitalist!”

If it was “more capitalist”, then CAPITAL would have more power than labor, not less, by definition.

 

[F K]

You can remove strong unions and replace it with any of the progressive policies being pushed...the current climate is a weak excuse
What is it about fully applying the Nordic model that progressives are against/hesitant about? More economic freedom and abolishing the fed min wage isn’t opposed by libertarians... nor is the strengthening of private sector unions.
Stop cherry picking the shyt and push for the actual model. It’s more capitalist than what we currently have in the states... and should be sold as such.


Govt. mandated purchases are going to be despitsed and resisted though.
#thisisamerica

If you go to any libertarian space online or in person, the stance on private sector unions is mixed at best. The idea that libertarians universally support the strengthening of private sector unions is another strawman lie for you to feel better about your dumb ideology.



Elizabeth Warren is literally calls all of her reforms a better form of capitalism, a plan to save capitalism says she loves capitalism and your side of the aisle calls her socialist.


You can't do the Scandinavian model without high taxes and strong unions, which is why progressive activists know you can't get shyt done until you repeal Taft-Hartley. pushing for full scandinavian without a repeal of Taft- Hartley is folly.