Democrats point to Nordic nations as models of socialism & Healthcare; Here’s how they actually work

[storyteller]

If I've learned anything from this thread, it's that Libertarians have serious reading comprehension issues...

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

as long as we make legal immigration easier

Deal. Keep grad students and give them expanded/permanent visa, revamp the immigration categories and reform the creative visa process, etc.

I'm with all of that. Improve the lotto system, etc.

But illegals gotta go... we're giving up too much easy stuff on the table right now.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

first off. illegal immigration isnt so much of a weight on our system to the point where it would completely move the needle of how much tax dollars you would have to spend for universal healthcare.

lets say for fun we have to pay an extra $100 per month for universal healthcare for all. we all have to pay it. all being all citizens. obviously some rich folks pay a lot more than that. Lets say with illegals it went from $95 to an additional $5.00 increase to make it a full $100. thats literally the difference the illegal argument makes. Dont hold your own prosperity back just because you're on some white racist thinking "dem people over there better not get any". if they are getting such a small amt take the benefits and run with them. we can sort out the illegal thing as well.

Black america would beg to differ.

Mind you, we knew this decades ago.

 

[rapbeats]

Black america would beg to differ.

Mind you, we knew this decades ago.

i'm black and I wouldnt beg to differ.

yes other groups that are here not as citizens take from our tax dollars. but guess what, they do that anyway when it comes to healthcare because now they have to go to the emergency room and urgent care only. which means they are going to cost us tax payers a premium in those life threating or really bad accident situations. It costs a lot more money to go to the emergency/Urgent care first than it does to have a doctor see them periodically and find out if you are going in the wrong direction with certain things that could be corrected before they become emergency issues.
Or better yet. we can leave them the same way and say you can't get universal healthcare, you can only get emergency services.
but that has no bearing on whether or not us american CITIZENS should have universal coverage or not. we can cover them too or not. neither way is a good excuse to not do it at all. we're bleeding billions in the current system with or without a single illegal immigrant.

thats why its hilarious thats the argument you use. I need you to do yourself a favor. before you repeat that illegal immigrant and healthcare argument. Go do your own homework. find out how much its costing us right now. then find out how much it would cost us in the future under universal to cover an illegal immigrant. In addition find out how much money we spend covering the people we cover right now under our current system and find out what areas are sucking us dry. I will bet you right now it aint immigrants on the top 3 reasons on the list. its the current systems issues. so that means if you're going to raise an argument due to your fear of us tax paying citizens spending too much money. find the thing we sped the most money on that we dont need and use that point to argue. but when you do that you will realize universal healthcare will cut that cost down drastically. therefore, you no longer disagree with it.

 

[F K]

even undoc immigrants work and pay taxes. what's the issue?

 

[Pressure]

even undoc immigrants work and pay taxes. what's the issue?

His parents did it the right way :MJhurt:

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

i'm black and I wouldnt beg to differ.

yes other groups that are here not as citizens take from our tax dollars. but guess what, they do that anyway when it comes to healthcare because now they have to go to the emergency room and urgent care only. which means they are going to cost us tax payers a premium in those life threating or really bad accident situations. It costs a lot more money to go to the emergency/Urgent care first than it does to have a doctor see them periodically and find out if you are going in the wrong direction with certain things that could be corrected before they become emergency issues.
Or better yet. we can leave them the same way and say you can't get universal healthcare, you can only get emergency services.
but that has no bearing on whether or not us american CITIZENS should have universal coverage or not. we can cover them too or not. neither way is a good excuse to not do it at all. we're bleeding billions in the current system with or without a single illegal immigrant.

thats why its hilarious thats the argument you use. I need you to do yourself a favor. before you repeat that illegal immigrant and healthcare argument. Go do your own homework. find out how much its costing us right now. then find out how much it would cost us in the future under universal to cover an illegal immigrant. In addition find out how much money we spend covering the people we cover right now under our current system and find out what areas are sucking us dry. I will bet you right now it aint immigrants on the top 3 reasons on the list. its the current systems issues. so that means if you're going to raise an argument due to your fear of us tax paying citizens spending too much money. find the thing we sped the most money on that we dont need and use that point to argue. but when you do that you will realize universal healthcare will cut that cost down drastically. therefore, you no longer disagree with it.

whats that gotta do with illegals?

everyone who goes to the ER gets treated...but we're not talking about EMERGENCIES.

Theres about 40 million black people in the USA. Theres easily about 15-20 million illegals.

Even a rough estimate says theres functionally a massive waste of money to insure illegals.

 

[rapbeats]

and since some of yall want to bring up illegal immigrants as if they are the #1 reason healthcare costs so da.. much(it aint)

NPR Choice page

Read it. pros and cons of covering them.

.......
"Most countries have existing mechanisms for providing universal health coverage for their citizens, but this may not necessarily mean extending coverage to migrants, mobile populations, and other vulnerable groups in their countries," says Nenette Motus, the health adviser for the International Office of Migration in Asia and the Pacific. "Migrants and marginalized populations, too, have the right to health care and must have access to equitable health care coverage. Thailand, in particular, has health insurance schemes for both documented and undocumented migrants."

This plan also includes medicine to manage chronic illnesses such as HIV, which is critical for patients who need constant and consistent treatment with antiretrovirals.

A combination of factors led the Thai government to contemplate a system that gave migrants equal health care. By 2005, migrant workers from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia accounted for 5 percent of all labor forces within Thailand, according to the International Labour Organization. The government recognized the migrants' contribution to the economy, considered access to health care a human right and was concerned that the lack of proper care for this vulnerable population would allow for communicable diseases that had already been controlled in Thailand to spread once again.

According to the UNAIDS 2014 Gap Report, HIV prevalence among migrants to Thailand from neighboring countries is up to four times the rate of HIV prevalence found among the general Thai population. Migrants in Thailand are also more likely to suffer from and seek treatment for communicable diseases like tuberculosis, syphilis, leprosy, malaria and elephantiasis.

In the decade leading up to the change in policy, many organizations had already set up health projects in migrant-heavy communities in Thailand. So when the policy expanded, "there was no big controversy among health care officials whether or not to provide basic health care and life-threatening treatment to migrants, regardless of their legal status," says Aree Moungsookjareoun, the border and migrant health officer at the World Health Organization in Thailand.

"It's really amazing what Thailand did," says Tatiana Shoumilina, the UNAIDS representative for Thailand. "They said any migrant — documented or undocumented, legal or illegal — can buy a health insurance card."

Initially, migrants would pay 2,800 THB (about $78) for an annual health insurance card. After the program successfully enrolled its starting target of 300,000 migrant subscribers, the yearly premium dropped to 2,100 THB ($58). Today, more than 1.3 million migrants — approximately a third of Thailand's migrant population — are enrolled in the health care system, according to the Ministry of Public Health. The majority live in Bangkok and adjacent provinces, where thriving fishing and construction industries depend on migrant labor.

But the two-year-old policy has some gaps in the coverage it provides. In certain areas — such as Mae Sot, a town in Thailand adjacent to Myanmar with a large population of Myanmarese migrants — those who are there illegally still have trouble buying health care without the proper paperwork. For instance, hospitals can turn migrants away if they are not healthy, which could mean high costs for treating the patients. And some hospitals in more remote regions lack the medical and financial resources to provide adequate care.
...........

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

even undoc immigrants work and pay taxes. what's the issue?

they don't pay taxes on income also present law allow tax deductions on kids plus when you pay people under the table you dodge payroll taxes

Raise More than a Quarter Trillion Dollars of Tax Revenue by Ending Tax Subsidies for Unauthorized Employment of Illegal Aliens

Its a never ending cascade of lost revenue.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

and since some of yall want to bring up illegal immigrants as if they are the #1 reason healthcare costs so da.. much(it aint)

NPR Choice page

Read it. pros and cons of covering them.

who cares WHAT number it is?

its functionally unfair and sends the wrong message, especially when yall come in here talking all this class-warfare shyt.

So if its about class war, whats the benefit of citizenship?

You already have black america feeling more and more left out of the picture, yet you want people to engage in the system MORE?

 

[Pressure]

whats that gotta do with illegals?

everyone who goes to the ER gets treated...but we're not talking about EMERGENCIES.

Theres about 40 million black people in the USA. Theres easily about 15-20 million illegals.

Even a rough estimate says theres functionally a massive waste of money to insure illegals.

Does it cost more to insure them or detain them for 721 days on average while they wait for trial?

 

[F K]

they don't pay taxes on income also present law allow tax deductions on kids plus when you pay people under the table you dodge payroll taxes

Raise More than a Quarter Trillion Dollars of Tax Revenue by Ending Tax Subsidies for Unauthorized Employment of Illegal Aliens

Its a never ending cascade of lost revenue.

so why don't we just legalize them and get all those taxes

 

[rapbeats]

and lets look at a City that has done universal healthcare for illegal immigrants in the US.

California gov candidate backs universal healthcare for undocumented immigrants

California Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom (D), who is running for governor, said in an interview released Tuesday that he would like to see the state pay for universal healthcare for all illegal immigrants.

“I did universal healthcare when I was mayor — fully implemented, regardless of pre-existing condition, ability to pay, and regardless of your immigration status,” Newsom told the podcast Pod Save America, referencing his stint as San Francisco's mayor. “I’d like to see that extended to the rest of the state.

"San Francisco is the only universal healthcare plan for all undocumented residents in America. Very proud of that,” Newsom added, “And we proved it can be done without bankrupting the city.”

but like i said. you can leave immigrant health setups just like they currently are now. they can get emergency services only. Unless they want to pay into the system directly. obviously if they do that without a real SS#. we will have to give them an "illegal" status SS#. which most wont want to do because that will expose the fact that they are illegal.but some would. just like california's driver license law for immigrants. a lot of them will never get a license because they know ICE can use that to track them. with that being a known issue a lot of illegal immigrants have still gotten their driver's license.

 

[rapbeats]

who cares WHAT number it is?

its functionally unfair and sends the wrong message, especially when yall come in here talking all this class-warfare shyt.

So if its about class war, whats the benefit of citizenship?

You already have black america feeling more and more left out of the picture, yet you want people to engage in the system MORE?

listen. i want universal heatlhcare period. i dont care about some illegals getting it. i aint white. i dont have those thoughts. i dont have the mentality of "i dont want to better my life for the sake of bettering yours." Even if i can agree with the premise of we need to make sure too many people arent on our system that isnt contributing. we know that.

but i refuse to stop myself from enjoying a much better system. PERIOD.

 

[rapbeats]

whats that gotta do with illegals?

everyone who goes to the ER gets treated...but we're not talking about EMERGENCIES.

Theres about 40 million black people in the USA. Theres easily about 15-20 million illegals.

Even a rough estimate says theres functionally a massive waste of money to insure illegals.

lets get the numbers straight first.

How many immigrants are living in the U.S. illegally?
There were 12 million immigrants living in the country illegally as of January 2015, according to the most recent estimate from the Department of Homeland Security. The estimates from two independent groups are similar: The Pew Research Center estimates the number at 10.7 million in 2016, and the Center for Migration Studies says there were 10.8 million people in 2016 living in the U.S. illegally.

That would be about 3.3 percent to 3.7 percent of the total U.S. population in 2016 or 2015.

All three groups use Census Bureau data on the foreign-born or noncitizens and adjust to subtract the legal immigrant population.

DHS estimated that the growth of the illegal immigrant population had slowed considerably, saying the population increased by 470,000 per year from 2000 to 2007, but only by 70,000 per year from 2010 to 2015.

CMS found a decline in the undocumented population, and specifically those from Mexico, of about 1 million since 2010. And the Pew Research Center found a peak of 12.2 million in the population in 2007, and a decline since.

thats not 15-20 mil. thats more like 13 to 15 mil. which is a huge difference.

Illegal Immigration Statistics - FactCheck.org

So if that many illegal people are here right now. and a lot of them are going to our kids schools, walking, riding buses, other public transportation, using public parks, restrooms, with us legal citizens. This means if they dont get coverage. Every health issue they have that could be contagious will turn into a big issue for legal citizens.

You think illegal immigrants dont get the measels? TB, etc?

mess around and dont provide them healthcare and see what happens to us legal folks.


You pass universal and at the same time tighten up the illegal immigrant laws but make them make ethical and logical sense. The asylum process needs to be a lot better and faster.