Do nikkas really think Off The Wall was better than Thriller???

Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
18,765
Reputation
1,105
Daps
49,972
Yeah. Off the wall was the catalyst for a lot of future talents sound like the Neptunes.

Thriller is bigger cuz it had the big budget video behind it as well as the Motown performance.

I still say rock with you is mike`s greatest song.
 

zerorequiem

All Star
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
Messages
3,449
Reputation
790
Daps
11,848
Damn, a MJ thread. I was just listening to Forever, Michael yesterday. I'd have to say Thriller had more hits, but musically OTW I prefer. Even though I love both albums, I find myself listening to OTW more; maybe it's because I've listened to Thriller all my life already.
 

AlainLocke

Banned
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
16,259
Reputation
2,635
Daps
74,086
I'm seriously debating whether I should neg you

Go ahead...IDC...that criticism of Michael Jackson was around even when he was alive and in his prime...

LOL

:yeshrug: I don't know, man. This reads like you're really selling Michael short. Guy had almost inhuman talent and he was capable of making music that spoke to people of various generations. He made songs like "Thriller" and "Beat It" because he wanted something that would appeal to the younger crowd, but he also had jams like "Billie Jean" and "Human Nature" that were more mature and showcased his evolution as an adult singer. Michael was always evolving, constantly morphing his image to his liking and experimenting with different sounds.

Off the Wall was his first journey into being a serious solo artist. Thriller was his attempt to create the greatest album of all-time, an album that nobody on the planet could fukk with or deny. Bad was more mechanical and industrial than his previous work, but he was going for an edgier image and sounding more paranoid and aggressive than ever before. Once he saw that he wouldn't be the man for too long, he updated his own sound with Dangerous and hooked up with contemporary producers to sustain his run on top. Many artists would have crumbled by doing this and seen as riding the wave, but all it did was give Michael an opportunity to make songs like "Jam" and "Remember the Time," songs he couldn't have made on his previous records.

As Michael's career progressed, his songwriting became darker and more frustrated, and the line between him as an entertainer and him as a man became more blurred, to the point where he took the lead single of his ninth album and told all the people dogging him to fukk off. Michael Jackson was a universal artist. Shouldn't he be celebrated instead of vilified for being so versatile, and being able to resonate with people from various generations because of all the different types of songs he made?

I can't really say that Michael made music that was bland or soulless. His songs always sounded unique to him. I don't know many other singers that could take songs like "Thriller," "Beat It," and "Bad" and make them work like he did. Was he way more concerned than he should have with selling records? Yes. But when you make the highest-selling album of all-time, and you go from a rising star to the biggest entertainer in the world in less than five years, your expectations and mindset have no choice but to change.

TL;DR - Michael Jackson was a gifted performer that made different songs for different audiences, and it was because of his ability to strike a chord with people from various generations, backgrounds, and sensibilities that made him so respected and beloved to this day.

See...and this is the problem with artists who traffick on commercial success and mass appeal instead of actually making good songs that ain't out of a cookie cutter formula - of what the format is...

Michael Jackson had a formula to sell records and he stuck with that formula throughout his career because it made him chart.

Thriller and Bad are almost the same album. Dirty Diana = Billie Jean. Just Good Friends = Girl Is Mine. Bad = Wanna Be Starting Something. Smooth Criminal = Thriller.

The song about a woman trying to manipulate him...check. The theme driven song - check. The duet about a girl - check. The upbeat intro song - check. The adult contemporary song about the human condition - check.

Then make dope music videos...

He isn't a Prince or a Marvin Gaye or like a Miles Davis or a Jimi Hendrix...there is no musical exploration. It's just music to chart.

His genius is in selling his music. It's not the music itself. The music itself was never on the cutting edge of music. He always came in and just did it marketed it and sold it better than anyone else in the pop lane. When disco wasn't cool, he bailed and made Thriller, which has disco elements but it's not disco which everybody in the pop lane did in the early 80s. When everybody was using loud ass drum machines making this bass heavy groove, he made Bad. When New Jack Swing was in, he did that...and he did it really late.

Prince crafting his own genre and sound in the 80s. Bobby Brown was one of the originators of the New Jack Swing lane in the late 80s. BBD completely up ended Hip Hop/RnB/Pop in one album.

Let's not even talk about what Rick James did, another genre bender in the 80s that was on the cutting edge of RnB and Pop. Or how about Cameo?

Michael Jackson wasn't doing any of these things. His whole gimmick was the music video. It wasn't even the music. He wasn't making better music than Prince. He wasn't making better music than Rick James. shyt Bobby Brown's Don't Be Cruel is a better album than Bad. BBD 1st album was better than Dangerous.

He made better marketing and videos and had a better tour....and his shyt was kid friendly.

Pop music is the Superhero/Action Blockbuster movie of the music business...it's meant to sell and sell a lot...

Most pop albums are shytty in the overall grand scheme of music. Just like most superhero/action movies are shytty when you compare it to the overall movie business.

It's the most rudimentary, formulaic, unengaging and unchallenging form of entertainment you can be entertained by...(it's nothing wrong with being entertained by it...but I am just saying...there's better stuff out there)...

And there's great skill in making art that is meant to be consumed and accepted by the masses but...it doesn't mean it's good.

There's a McDonalds on every corner...all over the world, it's still shytty food.

Michael Jackson is the McDonalds, the Michael Bay, Dragon Ball Z, the Superhero/Action movie of music. He reinvented what it means to be a pop artist.

That's what he set out to be...and he achieved that and I ain't taking away from that....but his music ain't all that...outside of like..one album.

I am saying...there are countless artists that are better than him, that made better music than him, that got better albums than him, that were better at making music than him and if you are a serious music lover, he shouldn't even be like in the Top 10 of artists in terms of music...

Just like you should put McDonalds as one of the best restaurants you ever been to.

Not saying MJ was bad...he just isn't that good as his die-hard fans make him sound.
 
Last edited:

Chelsea Bridge

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
18,685
Reputation
3,199
Daps
60,200
Reppin
NULL
Yall really outchea playing songs like Thriller, Beat It and Bad...:lolbron:

I can't even keep a straight face looking at the Bad music video let alone hearing the damn song...

And yall grown adults rocking out to that shyt...?

All I am saying...that shyt for kids...it's like people that think Dragon Ball Z is one of the best animes ever and they are grown...there's better stuff out there...that is suitable for your age...

:yeshrug:
Yes I actually am. It may be cheesy to some people but it resonates with most people and that was the goal.

I don’t understand why people only focus on off the wall, thriller and bad.

Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible have a lot of classics on them and are very unappreciated. They are the albums that really show Michael’s growth as an artist.
 
Last edited:

Chelsea Bridge

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
18,685
Reputation
3,199
Daps
60,200
Reppin
NULL
Go ahead...IDC...that criticism of Michael Jackson was around even when he was alive and in his prime...

LOL



See...and this is the problem with artists who traffick on commercial success and mass appeal instead of actually making good songs that ain't out of a cookie cutter formula...of what the format is...

Michael Jackson had a formula to sell records and he stuck with that formula throughout his career because it made him chart.

Thriller and Bad are almost the same album. Dirty Diana = Billie Jean. Just Good Friends = Girl Is Mine. Bad = Wanna Be Starting Something. Smooth Criminal = Thriller.

The song about a woman trying to manipulate him...check. The theme driven song - check. The duet about a girl - check. The upbeat intro song - check. The adult contemporary song about the human condition - check.

He isn't a Prince or a Marvin Gaye or like a Miles Davis or a Jimi Hendrix...there is no musical exploration. It's just music to chart.

His genius is in selling his music. It's not the music itself. The music itself was never on the cutting edge of music. He always came in and just did it marketed it and sold it better than anyone else in the pop lane. When disco wasn't cool, he bailed and made Thriller, which has disco elements but it's not disco which everybody in the pop lane did in the early 80s. When everybody was using loud ass drum machines making this bass heavy groove, he made Bad. When New Jack Swing was in, he did that...and he did it really late.

Prince crafting his own genre and sound in the 80s. Bobby Brown was one of the originators of the New Jack Swing lane in the late 80s. BBD completely up ended Hip Hop/RnB/Pop in one album.

Let's not even talk about what Rick James did, another genre bender in the 80s that was on the cutting edge of RnB and Pop. Or how about Cameo?

Michael Jackson wasn't doing any of these things. His whole gimmick was the music video. It wasn't even the music. He wasn't making better music than Prince. He wasn't making better music than Rick James. shyt Bobby Brown's Don't Be Cruel is a better album than Bad. BBD 1st album was better than Dangerous.

He made better marketing and videos and had a better tour....and his shyt was kid friendly.

Pop music is the Superhero/Action Blockbuster movie of the music business...it's meant to sell and sell a lot...

Most pop albums are shytty in the overall grand scheme of music. Just like most superhero/action movies are shytty when you compare it to the overall movie business.

It's the most rudimentary, formulaic, unengaging and unchallenging form of entertainment you can be entertained by...

And there's great skill in making art that is meant to be consumed and accepted by the masses but...it doesn't mean it's good.

There's a McDonalds on every corner...all over the world, it's still shytty food.

Michael Jackson is the McDonalds, the Michael Bay, Dragon Ball Z, the Superhero/Action movie of music. He pretty much reinvented what it means to be a pop artist.

That's what he set out to be...and he achieved that and I ain't taking away from that....but his music ain't all that...outside of like..one album.

I am saying...there are countless artists that are better than him, that made better music than him, that got better albums than him, that were better at making music than him and if you are a serious music lover, he shouldn't even be like in the Top 10 of artists...

Just like you should put McDonalds as one of the best restaurants you ever been to.

This is so disrespectful

giphy.gif


I would listen to a Michael Jackson album before any of those other artists you named. Does that mean I don’t like good music? Stop being ridiculous. People like what they like. Just because you think someone is better doesn’t mean they are. Michael wasn’t McDonalds. His music isn’t garbage that just happens to be popular. Youre completely disrespecting his legacy. He’s not manufactured. He was super talented and what made him better was that he knew how to use his talent to make everyone listen. Don’t hate him just because he did it better than the ones you liked. Get over it. He’s the GOAT. Deal with it.
 

Booker T Garvey

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
29,779
Reputation
4,002
Daps
124,319
The most knowledgeable MJ fan on the coli has entered...I shall weigh in now:

FluidCoarseAlbino-size_restricted.gif



Off the Wall is arguably the greatest and most influential male solo R&B album of all time;

Some of Stevies stuff can be thrown in the discussion
and Marvin Gaye's "what's going on" too

but the musical arrangements, the song writing, the production, all next level. He made everything else before that sound dated and irrelevant.

Mikes BEST work musically however, is HISTORY

220px-MJ-HIStory.jpg


of course this is subjective, but lets keep it 100:

- Earth Song
- They Don't Really Care about Us
- Scream
- You Are Not Alone
- Stranger In Moscow

these songs are all masterpieces. works of high art that that transcend what we traditionally consider "pop" music
 

Tom Foolery

You're using way too many napkins.
Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
21,932
Reputation
6,585
Daps
92,988
Reppin
Boardwalk and Park Place
I think Off the Wall is his best album. I think Dangerous is his most serious and personal album. I think Bad is his worst albums as far as ranking albums in his prime goes...

Off The Wall is like a nightlife soundtrack to me, it tells a story. The rest of his albums are just a collection of songs that can hopefully hit number 1 on the charts.

Off the Wall showcases Michael's technical singing prowess and his song presence. That's the type of pop music virtuoso that I would expect him to become. Not making songs like Bad, The Girl Is Mine, Thriller or Man in Mirror which is full of cheesiness, cliches and platitudes.

I think the commercial success of Thriller hides how cheesy most of the songs are on that album. I think Michael Jackson's commercial success makes him very overrated in general..especially compared to someone like Prince or Marvin Gaye.

Wanna Be Starting Something, Billie Jean, Human Nature, Baby Be Mine and Lady In My Life are the only songs I fukk with Thriller album.

Michael Jackson wasn't a mature or personal artist. He majority of his career he wrote/performed very bland and cookie cutter formulaic songs after Off the Wall...so he can sell as much records possible. That's was his goal, it wasn't to make the best songs, but songs that get number 1s and occupy the charts.

To me, Michael Jackson is for kids or people who like and can appreciate simple poppy shyt. Michael Jackson is like the Transformers of music. A consistent technical spectacle with very little depth.

Michael Jackson is one of the greatest male vocalists....but he didn't really sing or do the songs I would expect from a guy as talented as he is.

I would've liked more songs like Wanna Be Starting Something, Leave Me Alone, Can't Help It, Human Nature, Don't Stop Until You Get Enough, Rock With You, Smooth Criminal or Billie Jean. For every one of those songs you get shyt like Bad, Girl Is Mine, Just Can't Stop Loving You, Man in the Mirror and etc.

His genius lies in his packaging of music and the promotion of himself. His music videos and etc. Thriller and Beat It are good music videos...but I ain't listening to the songs by themselves.

His albums...outside of a Off The Wall...are hit and miss when it comes to the tracklist...alternates from brilliant songwriting and a haunting and overbearing personal touch to pure pop commercial cheesiness...
Go ahead...IDC...that criticism of Michael Jackson was around even when he was alive and in his prime...

LOL



See...and this is the problem with artists who traffick on commercial success and mass appeal instead of actually making good songs that ain't out of a cookie cutter formula - of what the format is...

Michael Jackson had a formula to sell records and he stuck with that formula throughout his career because it made him chart.

Thriller and Bad are almost the same album. Dirty Diana = Billie Jean. Just Good Friends = Girl Is Mine. Bad = Wanna Be Starting Something. Smooth Criminal = Thriller.

The song about a woman trying to manipulate him...check. The theme driven song - check. The duet about a girl - check. The upbeat intro song - check. The adult contemporary song about the human condition - check.

Then make dope music videos...

He isn't a Prince or a Marvin Gaye or like a Miles Davis or a Jimi Hendrix...there is no musical exploration. It's just music to chart.

His genius is in selling his music. It's not the music itself. The music itself was never on the cutting edge of music. He always came in and just did it marketed it and sold it better than anyone else in the pop lane. When disco wasn't cool, he bailed and made Thriller, which has disco elements but it's not disco which everybody in the pop lane did in the early 80s. When everybody was using loud ass drum machines making this bass heavy groove, he made Bad. When New Jack Swing was in, he did that...and he did it really late.

Prince crafting his own genre and sound in the 80s. Bobby Brown was one of the originators of the New Jack Swing lane in the late 80s. BBD completely up ended Hip Hop/RnB/Pop in one album.

Let's not even talk about what Rick James did, another genre bender in the 80s that was on the cutting edge of RnB and Pop. Or how about Cameo?

Michael Jackson wasn't doing any of these things. His whole gimmick was the music video. It wasn't even the music. He wasn't making better music than Prince. He wasn't making better music than Rick James. shyt Bobby Brown's Don't Be Cruel is a better album than Bad. BBD 1st album was better than Dangerous.

He made better marketing and videos and had a better tour....and his shyt was kid friendly.

Pop music is the Superhero/Action Blockbuster movie of the music business...it's meant to sell and sell a lot...

Most pop albums are shytty in the overall grand scheme of music. Just like most superhero/action movies are shytty when you compare it to the overall movie business.

It's the most rudimentary, formulaic, unengaging and unchallenging form of entertainment you can be entertained by...(it's nothing wrong with being entertained by it...but I am just saying...there's better stuff out there)...

And there's great skill in making art that is meant to be consumed and accepted by the masses but...it doesn't mean it's good.

There's a McDonalds on every corner...all over the world, it's still shytty food.

Michael Jackson is the McDonalds, the Michael Bay, Dragon Ball Z, the Superhero/Action movie of music. He reinvented what it means to be a pop artist.

That's what he set out to be...and he achieved that and I ain't taking away from that....but his music ain't all that...outside of like..one album.

I am saying...there are countless artists that are better than him, that made better music than him, that got better albums than him, that were better at making music than him and if you are a serious music lover, he shouldn't even be like in the Top 10 of artists in terms of music...

Just like you should put McDonalds as one of the best restaurants you ever been to.

Not saying MJ was bad...he just isn't that good as his die-hard fans make him sound.
View media item 16642
 

Mike the Executioner

What went on up there? Poppers and weird sex!
Joined
Sep 10, 2015
Messages
11,269
Reputation
4,412
Daps
44,101
Reppin
Brooklyn, New York
This is so disrespectful

giphy.gif


I would listen to a Michael Jackson album before any of those other artists you named. Does that mean I don’t like good music? Stop being ridiculous. People like what they like. Just because you think someone is better doesn’t mean they are. Michael wasn’t McDonalds. His music isn’t garbage that just happens to be popular. Youre completely disrespecting his legacy. He’s not manufactured. He was super talented and what made him better was that he knew how to use his talent to make everyone listen. Don’t hate him just because he did it better than the ones you liked. Get over it. He’s the GOAT. Deal with it.

Yeah, I didn't even feel like responding to that because I don't think it's worth it.

Guy said that he wasn't calling MJ wack, but then right before that, called him the McDonald's and Michael Bay of music. That's some seriously disrespectful shyt. Because he wasn't as experimental and risky as other artists, because he tackled similar themes throughout his career, because he wasn't that complex, because he made his name with pop music.......this all makes him a lesser artist? Or an artist not even worth comparing to the greats? :what:

This is why I once said that we don't deserve another Michael or Prince. Could you imagine the way this place would treat them in their primes?
 

Kerkum

Superstar
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
4,516
Reputation
-545
Daps
18,292
Can’t Help It is his vocal best aside from his cover of “La La Means...” when he was a child. So I pick Off the wall based on that alone
 

AlainLocke

Banned
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
16,259
Reputation
2,635
Daps
74,086
Since @TreeElecHuggica asked me who had a bigger impact...

It's easily Jackie Wilson...

Jackie Wilson original...the OG One Man Show Pop Artist...

He was before James Brown, Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson

Elvis Presley got his moves from Jackie...

James Brown got his stage show from Jackie


Now...

If you don't know who Jackie Wilson...then gotdamn...

So yeah...

Michael Jackson is eventual the culmination and the evolution of the one man show pop star with his mass commercialization...thru the music video and corporation sponsorships...but it all starts from Jackie Wilson...

I would say Jackie Wilson is more important musically since he did bridge the gap from Blues to Soul and RocknRoll...

In turns of star power and the business of music stardom...Michael Jackson is the most important artist since the 80s...

Also you can't forget Frankie Lymon...who was the original Michael Jackson...who paved the way for Black child stars...





 
Last edited:

BEN23

All Star
Joined
Nov 18, 2016
Messages
1,904
Reputation
254
Daps
5,142
I think Off the Wall is his best album. I think Dangerous is his most serious and personal album. I think Bad is his worst albums as far as ranking albums in his prime goes...

Off The Wall is like a nightlife soundtrack to me, it tells a story. The rest of his albums are just a collection of songs that can hopefully hit number 1 on the charts.

Off the Wall showcases Michael's technical singing prowess and his song presence. That's the type of pop music virtuoso that I would expect him to become. Not making songs like Bad, The Girl Is Mine, Thriller or Man in Mirror which is full of cheesiness, cliches and platitudes.

I think the commercial success of Thriller hides how cheesy most of the songs are on that album. I think Michael Jackson's commercial success makes him very overrated in general..especially compared to someone like Prince or Marvin Gaye.

Wanna Be Starting Something, Billie Jean, Human Nature, Baby Be Mine and Lady In My Life are the only songs I fukk with Thriller album.

Michael Jackson wasn't a mature or personal artist. He majority of his career he wrote/performed very bland and cookie cutter formulaic songs after Off the Wall...so he can sell as much records possible. That's was his goal, it wasn't to make the best songs, but songs that get number 1s and occupy the charts.

To me, Michael Jackson is for kids or people who like and can appreciate simple poppy shyt. Michael Jackson is like the Transformers of music. A consistent technical spectacle with very little depth.

Michael Jackson is one of the greatest male vocalists....but he didn't really sing or do the songs I would expect from a guy as talented as he is.

I would've liked more songs like Wanna Be Starting Something, Leave Me Alone, Can't Help It, Human Nature, Don't Stop Until You Get Enough, Rock With You, Smooth Criminal or Billie Jean. For every one of those songs you get shyt like Bad, Girl Is Mine, Just Can't Stop Loving You, Man in the Mirror and etc.

His genius lies in his packaging of music and the promotion of himself. His music videos and etc. Thriller and Beat It are good music videos...but I ain't listening to the songs by themselves.

His albums...outside of a Off The Wall...are hit and miss when it comes to the tracklist...alternates from brilliant songwriting and a haunting and overbearing personal touch to pure pop commercial cheesiness...

You just called Michael Jackson overrated ...I mean the guy mad the best selling album of all time. How can you shyt on man in the mirror...what other artist has a song so positive ...a selfless song...just say you don’t like Michael Jackson ....and you don’t know music:yeshrug:
 

Kerkum

Superstar
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
4,516
Reputation
-545
Daps
18,292
But Janet’s albums >>>>> Michael’s
However Michael is clearly the bigger icon in regards to cultural legacy
 
Top