Do you have a good reason to believe in god?

[Ghost Utmost]

The Humanoid/anthropomorphic idea of God did not make it past the Garden of Eden story. You had cherubins gaurding the garden, so further anthropomorphism would be limited to angels, like the angels who led Abraham, Lot, and their wives to safety. Needless to say the stories in Genesis stretches the imagination, Jews dont take it literally, but Creationist do sadly.
The God of Moses was a spirit that was seen over the Ark of the Covenant and came to believers through the Holy Spirit. So, God is not a humanoid in the sky or on earth.


Genesis is dubious and filled with Mesoptamian lore, the Jewish Rabbi let's it be known with no hesitation, while Christian Pastors rather mislead folks by saying its all true. Theology has distorted many ideas, so you have many misconceptions because of theology, I reject all theology and stick to hermeneutics. You'll be surprised a lot theology like original sin or armageddon were created by either disturbed, psychotic, or perverted individuals. Look it up, this why the churches split in 1054, and further split in 1517, theology and heresy caused a lot of inner conflict.

I don't believe God is the universe, I believe God was the first and the universe and everything else was created after. So I don't believe God is the droplet of water or the Sun, these are matter just like universe. God influences matter, but God is not matter.

@NightStone @the cac mamba
@m0rninggl0ry @Brown_Pride @timeless @LastDayze333DegreeDemigod @NoCones

Before there was matter there was just emptiness. G-d realized G-d existed, which is no mall feat cause there was no object outside to be relative to. Nothing within. No movement. But the realization that G-d exists was the Big Bang / let there be light moment.

The substance came forth as the manifestation of the thought. The "word". We are G-d's "imagination" but G-d's "word" becomes flesh. It manifests physically.

G-d created everything but not by reaching down and shaping it out of mud. The most basic particles had the "knowledge" to become the more complex ones. The dirt and water "knew" how to become creatures. So in that way it was all laid out in the first instant.

There is some mechanism by which G-d creates effects in real time but it doesn't seem to be physically talking or teleporting things in a "magic" way. It seems to be subtle enough that it leaves room to totally doubt G-d's very existence. G-d hides.

Why? So that you have to be serious about finding G-d and you have to exert alot of effort. That whole journey is what makes you fit enough to have the experience.

 

[DREAMZZZ]

i saw many things. i saw ancient looking mayan faces, i saw complex things that seemed like a round calendar. i sailed through lights etc.

i know its real because i saw things i couldnt imagine, and i felt an outside presence that i just knew to be god. god was the white light of eternity and love. i was far removed from the room and my body.

How did you rule out all other possibilities when conducting your study of your experience?

 

[DREAMZZZ]

Before there was matter there was just emptiness. G-d realized G-d existed, which is no mall feat cause there was no object outside to be relative to. Nothing within. No movement. But the realization that G-d exists was the Big Bang / let there be light moment.

The substance came forth as the manifestation of the thought. The "word". We are G-d's "imagination" but G-d's "word" becomes flesh. It manifests physically.

G-d created everything but not by reaching down and shaping it out of mud. The most basic particles had the "knowledge" to become the more complex ones. The dirt and water "knew" how to become creatures. So in that way it was all laid out in the first instant.

There is some mechanism by which G-d creates effects in real time but it doesn't seem to be physically talking or teleporting things in a "magic" way. It seems to be subtle enough that it leaves room to totally doubt G-d's very existence. G-d hides.

Why? So that you have to be serious about finding G-d and you have to exert alot of effort. That whole journey is what makes you fit enough to have the experience.

Your making assumptions without evidence. Where is the evidence that backs up what you are claiming?

 

[DREAMZZZ]

Do you have a good reason to believe in god? Lets get back to the original question.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Wrong, atheist have mortality. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on morality.

That's not my argument (and I think you meant 'morality'). The argument is that 'morality' cannot exist. What you think of as morality is nothing more than personal taste and/or pragmatism created via socio-cultural construction.
​

Wrong, atheist have propose. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on propose and meaning.

There can be no 'purpose' if everything is the result of 'chance'.
​

This could very well be true. Why do we believe that humans are so important to the affairs of the universe? The universe was here before we were, and it probably will continue on after we are gone.

The Universe wasn't always here before we were. It began to exist, therefore, it is contingent. Things that are contingent are unnecessary. Same with everything within the Universe......including human beings. Human beings believe they are important because they believe they are different from all other animals due to their perception of time.​

Our activities matter and are important to us. Are the interactions you have with your family not important? Are the interaction you have with your friends not important? Are the experiences you have in life not important? Our action matter to us and the people around us.

None of these are of any objective value and are ultimately meaningless.​

 

[Ghost Utmost]

Your making assumptions without evidence. Where is the evidence that backs up what you are claiming?

Thought experiment. Logic.

Einstein did all his science in his imagination. Turned out he was right.

Evidence for what happened before matter existed? There isn't any. There was nothingness.

You're going to respond to everything with "how do you know?". We already established that an individual doesn't really know anything. I think Sweden exists. I believe there are satelites. I don't know that those things are true outside of using my noodle to determine the likelihood of the stories people tell me about them.

That's what happened cause logic dictates that that's what would have had to happen. My lab is in my mind.

 

[DREAMZZZ]

That's not my argument (and I think you meant 'morality'). The argument is that 'morality' cannot exist. What you think of as morality is nothing more than personal taste and/or pragmatism created via socio-cultural construction.
​

There can be no 'purpose' if everything is the result of 'chance'.
​

The Universe wasn't always here before we were. It began to exist, therefore, it is contingent. Things that are contingent are unnecessary. Same with everything within the Universe......including human beings. Human beings believe they are important because they believe they are different from all other animals due to their perception of time.​

None of these are of any objective value and are ultimately meaningless.​

Cool

 

[DREAMZZZ]

What you think of as morality is nothing more than personal taste and/or pragmatism created via socio-cultural construction.

Learn the difference between subjective and objective morality.

There can be no 'purpose' if everything is the result of 'chance'.

Who is saying this? This is not my argument.

The Universe wasn't always here before we were.

I never said this either.

Things that are contingent are unnecessary. Same with everything within the Universe......including human beings.

Says who, you?

Human beings believe they are important because they believe they are different from all other animals due to their perception of time.​

Your going to have to explain this one to me.

None of these are of any objective value

So your saying that anything that is not objective doesn't matter?

and are ultimately meaningless.

They have meaning to me and a lot of other people on this earth.

 

[DREAMZZZ]

Evidence for what happened before matter existed? There isn't any. There was nothingness.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. You are claiming that you have the answer to the riddle scientist have spend there whole lives trying to solve. Submit your research, you would get the noble peace prize and create a whole new section of scientific study.

We already established that an individual doesn't really know anything. I think Sweden exists. I believe there are satelites. I don't know that those things are true outside of using my noodle to determine the likelihood of the stories people tell me about them.

I already rebut this flawed logic. Look up peer reviewed studies as a starting point. The scientific method is the best route to objective truth.

 

[Ghost Utmost]

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. You are claiming that you have the answer to the riddle scientist have spend there whole lives trying to solve. Submit your research, you would get the noble peace prize and create a whole new section of scientific study.

I already rebut this flawed logic. Look up peer reviewed studies as a starting point. The scientific method is the best route to objective truth.

G-d hides. If it was something you could measure and quantify then it wouldn't stay a mystery for the entirety of human existence. If there nothing to it then people wouldn't keep seeking.

It necessarily has to be beyond our instruments. Except the human consciousness itself since that's part of the one Universal consciousness.

Quantum physicists can't make the electron hold still long enough to measure both values. Explain why the matter on the quantum level responds to being observed if you want to write something besides "we don't yet know. Where's the evidence".

 

[DREAMZZZ]

G-d hides.

Why would God need to hide? Also explain how you know this.

If it was something you could measure and quantify then it wouldn't stay a mystery for the entirety of human existence.

How do you quantify something you cant observe? How do you test the supernatural? How do you measure something that has no evidence of existing?

It necessarily has to be beyond our instruments.

Again if it is beyond our instruments to detect it then how do we know its there?

Except the human consciousness itself since that's part of the one Universal consciousness.

If the human consciousness knew god existed, there would be no debate.

Quantum physicists can't make the electron hold still long enough to measure both values. Explain why the matter on the quantum level responds to being observed if you want to write something

I already rebutted this in a previous post, maybe you didn't see it.

Honestly, your comments are just a series of claims that you are making with no evidence to back them up. This is the main reason I keep asking for evidence when I reply to your comments. If God truly existed, it should be the most obvious and easy thing to prove.

 

[Ghost Utmost]

Why would God need to hide? Also explain how you know this.

How do you quantify something you cant observe? How do you test the supernatural? How do you measure something that has no evidence of existing?

Again if it is beyond our instruments to detect it then how do we know its there?

If the human consciousness knew god existed, there would be no debate.

I already rebutted this in a previous post, maybe you didn't see it.

Honestly, your comments are just a series of claims that you are making with no evidence to back them up. This is the main reason I keep asking for evidence when I reply to your comments. If God truly existed, it should be the most obvious and easy thing to prove.

You already know there's no scientific evidence before you got started.

You asked your question and you reject every answer that's not scientific evidence.

You shouldn't talk to people about this stuff. You will learn absolutely nothing cause all you want to do is repeat "where is the evidence"

G-d doesn't "need" hide. G-d doesn't need anything including our worship.

We are material. The thing we're searching for is immaterial. If you could find it with a Geiger counter then that would make it material.

Yet somehow the unseen (unheard untouched etc) has an effect on the material.

You debate that you recognize a consciousness in the Universe cause you are dogmatic about science in the same way that religious people are dogmatic about their system.

I don't debate it. Humans have accepted it for quite a long time.

You could have restated what you wrote about quantum effects. I'm certainly not going to go looking for it.

I bet it's "we don't know yet. Where's the evidence"

 

[Rekorb]

Why would God need to hide? Also explain how you know this.

How do you quantify something you cant observe? How do you test the supernatural? How do you measure something that has no evidence of existing?

Again if it is beyond our instruments to detect it then how do we know its there?

If the human consciousness knew god existed, there would be no debate.

I already rebutted this in a previous post, maybe you didn't see it.

Honestly, your comments are just a series of claims that you are making with no evidence to back them up. This is the main reason I keep asking for evidence when I reply to your comments. If God truly existed, it should be the most obvious and easy thing to prove.

Let's be reality, you reject it because you label it as 'claims'. So, its a stale mate at best, and insincere at worst. Even Atheist will admit they see the supernatural as described in the Bible as falling in 1 of 3 categories: false, coincidence, or unexplained phenomenon but they stop short of saying its just 'claims'. They just feel its not acts of God, but they feel spiritual/metaphysical experiences are possible absent the existence of God. I disagree with the Atheist position, but at least its not so lazy as your position.

God is a supernatural concept and always been presented that way, even the neuroscientist Sam Harris who started out as a hard line Atheist is starting to soften his position. 2000+ years of Christian theology has really distorted the idea of God...Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, African spirituality, the Occultist does not have these problems. Avoiding theology and reading Bible is the best way to avoid the distortion, because theology has created some wacky ideas by white men who were either disturbed, psychotic, or perverted.

Here is what Sam Harris has to say, and you can tell he is moving away from the hard line approach of Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Christopher Hitchens, Bart Ehrman and James Randi. There are other notable Atheist, but these are the ones I think have really presented some interesting material. Sam Harris has had some spiritual experiences that he can not deny, check out the vid.



@NightStone @the cac mamba
@m0rninggl0ry @Brown_Pride @timeless @LastDayze333DegreeDemigod @NoCones @the cac mamba @the cac mamba

 

[DREAMZZZ]

You already know there's no scientific evidence before you got started.

Yes, this is why I posed the question in the first place.

You asked your question and you reject every answer that's not scientific evidence.

If you make a statement, you bear the burden of proof. If you make a statement with no proof to back it, I can disregard your statement with the same amount of proof.

You shouldn't talk to people about this stuff. You will learn absolutely nothing cause all you want to do is repeat "where is the evidence"

These questions about our origins are arguably the most important questions one can ask. Why should i not talk to people about this subject? Are you scared someone will question their beliefs?

G-d doesn't "need" hide. G-d doesn't need anything including our worship.

If God doesn't need to hide, then why does he? If God doesn't need worship, why does he ask for it?

You debate that you recognize a consciousness in the Universe cause you are dogmatic about science in the same way that religious people are dogmatic about their system.

I recognize consciousness in myself and others around me, i have no idea what universal consciousness is.

I don't debate it. Humans have accepted it for quite a long time.

Just because you don't debate it doesn't make it right. Just because humans have accepted it doesn't make it right.

You could have restated what you wrote about quantum effects. I'm certainly not going to go looking for it.

Don't do that, you might learn something.

I bet it's "we don't know yet. Where's the evidence"

There is a reason I keep saying this. I am trying to prove a point. You have shown an once of evidence for your claims, just assumption after assumption.

 

[DREAMZZZ]

Even Atheist will admit they see the supernatural as described in the Bible as falling in 1 of 3 categories: false, coincidence, or unexplained

Some atheist are open to the idea of the supernatural, but understand that the supernatural cant be tested or is even proven to exists.

I disagree with the Atheist position, but at least its not so lazy as your position.

Atheist don't have a position.

Bible is the best way to avoid the distortion

This sentence.

Here is what Sam Harris has to say

Did you watch this video? He specifically states that he was under the affects of MDMA. Of course you might experience something out of the norm on drugs. Also, how to you connect the behavior of you brain on MDMA to a God?