Does YouTuber “Lil Bill” have a problem by claiming that “the struggle” makes your black media political analysis makes you more legit?

[O³ (O cubed)]

Wrong.

Spoiler

 

[Westbama Heartthrob]

Why would millions achieve upward mobility?

What you mean why? To escape poverty

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

What you mean why? To escape poverty

I think you don’t understand what you said.

Why would millions of black people come up? Under what expectation do you have for that?

Look I’m going to keep it direct. I absolutely want a black elite. I want it expanded and I want it to have more influence and I want to make it difficult to join because I want excellent people with stellar experience and credentials proving their value and worth to the group.

Why is that wrong?

 

[Wiseborn]

FD is another one of those too-cool-for-school leftists who try to think that throwing the word “capitalism” in there makes your analysis more legitimize, innovative or insightful. They really dont want to admit there’s a narrow chance of success and routs of opportunity so they’d rather just make these grand conspiracies that incorporate everything but functionally change or challenge NOTHING.

You’re right and he kinda said as much in his last video but he’s been saying that for a while and I’d be remsss If I dismissed the fact that he does mention other or serious commentary than him on politics and that he’s an entertainer that shouldn’t be taken so seriously.

Again it’s youtube so your not gonna get too much nuance in a 45 minute video that is mainly a commercial for the Ground New App.

 

[Wiseborn]

I think you don’t understand what you said.

Why would millions of black people come up? Under what expectation do you have for that?

Look I’m going to keep it direct. I absolutely want a black elite. I want it expanded and I want it to have more influence and I want to make it difficult to join because I want excellent people with stellar experience and credentials proving their value and worth to the group.

Why is that wrong?

I agree with you on all but it being more difficult to join said Black elite.

 

[Westbama Heartthrob]

I think you don’t understand what you said.

Why would millions of black people come up? Under what expectation do you have for that?

Look I’m going to keep it direct. I absolutely want a black elite. I want it expanded and I want it to have more influence and I want to make it difficult to join because I want excellent people with stellar experience and credentials proving their value and worth to the group.

Why is that wrong?

Nah, it sounds like you don't understand

The barriers don't change just by one or a few exceptions. Their success is something to be proud of, but it doesn't come as a sign of change or progress. It's often misused like it is though to downplay the hurdles that keep more from reaching the same

And a black elite is wrong for the same reason a white elite is. My personal views are that all hierarchies are wrong and ultimately oppression will always exist until we destroy all systems where one man is over another

Racism, sexism, classism, labor exploitation etc.

It's all tying back to that idea of elitism

What makes a doctor more excellent than a plumber for example?

Do you celebrate the candy lady like you do the black CPA?

Is achievement about personal accolades or being a pillar of the community?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You’re right and he kinda said as much in his last video but he’s been saying that for a while and I’d be remsss If I dismissed the fact that he does mention other or serious commentary than him on politics and that he’s an entertainer that shouldn’t be taken so seriously.

Again it’s youtube so your not gonna get too much nuance in a 45 minute video that is mainly a commercial for the Ground New App.

I’m really just getting annoyed by people who I should agree with on the left rejecting just basic economics or any attempt at success just to live in this ironically white leftist dream of utopia that doesn’t even exist for their own fever dream perfect diagnoses of political obstacles.

I’m not saying materialism is good, but the same people telling me to accept weird social beliefs are the ones telling me that black people who managed to eek out some modicum of success are “harming” black people are confusing me

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Nah, it sounds like you don't understand

The barriers don't change just by one or a few exceptions. Their success is something to be proud of, but it doesn't come as a sign of change or progress. It's often misused like it is though to downplay the hurdles that keep more from reaching the same

How many more hurdles are there left to overcome?

They got rid of DEI and affirmative action. If anything, it’s harder NOW to achieve anything than it was 2 years ago. So now, we see how we’re really going to fare.

And a black elite is wrong for the same reason a white elite is. My personal views are that all hierarchies are wrong and ultimately oppression will always exist until we destroy all systems where one man is over another

I dont know what you mean by “over another”.

Some people know more, do more, and get more. The basics should be provided by competent government but I dont support shaming black people who have figured it out.

Plus, I have more smoke for entertainment siphoning resources out of the black community than real black successes in business and science.

Racism, sexism, classism, labor exploitation etc.

These are just terms devoid of any real investigation of the complexity of these issues. The mere existence of these issues doesn’t make them inherently bad.

It’s not “classist” to look down on just saying “it is what it is” to destructive communal behaviors.

It's all tying back to that idea of elitism

Theres real elitism and functional elitism.

Real elitism is the reality that theres things you earned that afford you more opportunities.

Theres functional elitism that comes by way of a sort of social dance that annoys people and seems to act unfairly. I dont support this.

You seem to think that excellence shouldn’t be rewarded. To the extent that excellence can be honored, it shouldn't afford unjust outcomes.

What makes a doctor more excellent than a plumber for example?

It’s harder to be a doctor.

Now compare a plumber to a water engineer.

Do you celebrate the candy lady like you do the black CPA?

What do you mean? “celebrate?"

Is achievement about personal accolades or being a pillar of the community?

The community should rise to the level of its best, not its lowest.

I’ve seen it in my own upbringing. At no point do I want to go “back” to that.

 

[Westbama Heartthrob]

I’m really just getting annoyed by people who I should agree with on the left rejecting just basic economics or any attempt at success just to live in this ironically white leftist dream of utopia that doesn’t even exist for their own fever dream perfect diagnoses of political obstacles.

I’m not saying materialism is good, but the same people telling me to accept weird social beliefs are the ones telling me that black people who managed to eek out some modicum of success are “harming” black people are confusing me

But you don't seem to care that your idea of a black elite will come at the cost of exploiting the same black people you claim to want to help

You want them to be the "rulers of the blacks" by holding all the capital and resources so they can tell all the feeble minded nikkas what to do

If they're the elite, what does that make the rest of us?

Cause that elite already exists. Old money black folks don't give a fukk about us in the working class

Look at all the richest black figures in America. They all share the same things in common with white people with money

Profiting from the same class of people they look down on in the name of "helping" them

And no matter how much they chastise other black people for not rising above, they'd do anything to maintain their place within this country's white supremacist framework

Cause you can be the richest nikka in the world. But how far does that go? Even if not directly, you still just the richest nikka working for a richer white man

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

But you don't seem to care that your idea of a black elite will come at the cost of exploiting the same black people you claim to want to help

I’ve never seen black elites not help black people.

NEVER.

You want them to be the "rulers of the blacks" by holding all the capital and resources so they can tell all the feeble minded nikkas what to do

Every other community has leaders and guidance.

If they're the elite, what does that make the rest of us?

I think you’re in denial bout where you are.

Cause that elite already exists. Old money black folks don't give a fukk about us in the working class

Yall have equated class with community, when in reality different communities have different classes.

You must not have been around old black money.

Look at all the richest black figures in America. They all share the same things in common with white people with money

They might have more trinkets but so what?

Profiting from the same class of people they look down on in the name of "helping" them

Be specific. How are black people with money looking down on certain people? Should they? Should they have opinions or preferences?

And no matter how much they chastise other black people for not rising above, they'd do anything to maintain their place within this country's white supremacist framework

Cause you can be the richest nikka in the world. But how far does that go? Even if not directly, you still just the richest nikka working for a richer white man

Calling the country white supremacist isn’t going to remove the work needed to reach your achievements.

 

[Westbama Heartthrob]

How many more hurdles are there left to overcome?

They got rid of DEI and affirmative action. If anything, it’s harder NOW to achieve anything than it was 2 years ago. So now, we see how we’re really going to fare.

I dont know what you mean by “over another”.

Some people know more, do more, and get more. The basics should be provided by competent government but I dont support shaming black people who have figured it out.

Nobody is shaming them for "figuring it out" if you mean for having degrees. Only reason they'd be shamed is if they were selling out or exploiting the community for profit.

Plus, I have more smoke for entertainment siphoning resources out of the black community than real black successes in business and science.


These are just terms devoid of any real investigation of the complexity of these issues. The mere existence of these issues doesn’t make them inherently bad.

It’s not “classist” to look down on just saying “it is what it is” to destructive communal behaviors.

Theres real elitism and functional elitism.

Real elitism is the reality that theres things you earned that afford you more opportunities.

Theres functional elitism that comes by way of a sort of social dance that annoys people and seems to act unfairly. I dont support this.

You seem to think that excellence shouldn’t be rewarded. To the extent that excellence can be honored, it shouldn't afford unjust outcomes.

We just ain't gonna agree on elitism man

It's like talking about slavery. You can dress it up and categorize it all you want. It's all exploitative and wrong at the end of the day

Excellence is its own reward. The only issue is that many people let their experiences blind them to shyt other people go through. So they try to chastise everyone for not following their path when it's more than one road to success. And success means different things to different people.

It’s harder to be a doctor.

Now compare a plumber to a water engineer.

What do you mean? “celebrate?"

How do you recognize the value each member of the community brings?

Is it based on external factors that qualify a person? Say personal achievements like education or a profitable business

Or is it based on internal ones such as their demeanor and how they are as a person?

Overall, does a person have to qualify themselves simply to valued? Or is it an intrinsic aspect of belonging to the community

I dont think excellence shouldn't be rewarded. Where you and I disagree is that you think there's only one way to he excellent. I'm pushing for more love towards everyone in the community regardless of socioeconomic or education level. Cause again, I don't like hierarchies

I say that as a nikka with a degree. I don't see myself as better or more elite than brehs who don't. I got an office job and my brother blue collar. We on different fronts in the same struggle though.

It might seem like I'm devaluing education to you, but I see anybody having a positive effect on their family and community as Black excellence to me

The community should rise to the level of its best, not its lowest.

What is the best? Who decides that? And then what is to be done with the so called lowest?

Cause you can keep that caste system shyt in your country

I’ve seen it in my own upbringing. At no point do I want to go “back” to that.

Go into detail. I wanna hear this

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Nobody is shaming them for "figuring it out" if you mean for having degrees. Only reason they'd be shamed is if they were selling out or exploiting the community for profit.

We just ain't gonna agree on elitism man

I think you’re trying to excuse mediocrity then calling it classism to shame people who dont carry-on in the way you like

It's like talking about slavery. You can dress it up and categorize it all you want. It's all exploitative and wrong at the end of the day

You haven’t demonstrated anything was like slavery nor why it was wrong or exploitative.

Excellence is its own reward. The only issue is that many people let their experiences blind them to shyt other people go through. So they try to chastise everyone for not following their path when it's more than one road to success. And success means different things to different people.

What does being “unblinded” to situations look like? Does it change the work necessary to change conditions? Does it bend the rules to lower standards?

What does this look like in your eyes if its fixed?

How do you recognize the value each member of the community brings?

You were the one who made the comparison.

Is it based on external factors that qualify a person? Say personal achievements like education or a profitable business

Or is it based on internal ones such as their demeanor and how they are as a person?

Overall, does a person have to qualify themselves simply to valued? Or is it an intrinsic aspect of belonging to the community

I dont think profitability itself is a sign of success but it self can reflect in its ability to employ and elevate others. However, I’m not saying anyone is TRULY better than the next person. i.e.. I dont think rich people should freely murder poor people.

But the efforts and investments others offer to the group differ. You can’t evade that.

I dont think excellence shouldn't be rewarded. Where you and I disagree is that you think there's only one way to he excellent. I'm pushing for more love towards everyone in the community regardless of socioeconomic or education level. Cause again, I don't like hierarchies

What is excellence without rare and unique achievements?

I say that as a nikka with a degree. I don't see myself as better or more elite than brehs who don't. I got an office job and my brother blue collar. We on different fronts in the same struggle though.

I don’t either. Why is Lil Bill talking down to people with degrees when in reality we know what they did was more valuable to the community?

It might seem like I'm devaluing education to you, but I see anybody having a positive effect on their family and community as Black excellence to me

Depends on the major, to me. But generally, yes.

What is the best? Who decides that? And then what is to be done with the so called lowest?

YOU were the one who made the comparison. It feels like you’re afraid to really address the reality of the dynamic. not me.

Cause you can keep that caste system shyt in your country

Go into detail. I wanna hear this

I’m black. We went from one of the poorest neighborhoods in one of the blackest states and cities in the country where I live to the nicest parts by sheer effort and planning by the time I got to middle school.

Yall really are trying to guilt shame success.

 

[Westbama Heartthrob]

I think you’re trying to excuse mediocrity then calling it classism to shame people who dont carry-on in the way you like

You haven’t demonstrated anything was like slavery nor why it was wrong or exploitative.

I know we ain't speaking your first language, so I'll clarify. That was was we call a simile, sir

I was making a comparison between two ideas. Elitism and slavery. Two abhorrent things that certain individuals try to justify.

You gave your two categories of real vs functional elitism. Which I can see through as a clear attempt to downplay the negative aspects inherent to the idea, much in the same way chattel slavery is contrasted with traditional slavery by apologists to minimize the Bible's justification of slavery

In other words, I ain't going for it

What does being “unblinded” to situations look like? Does it change the work necessary to change conditions? Does it bend the rules to lower standards?

What does this look like in your eyes if its fixed?

It means seeking out and listening to the experiences of others. Gaining new perspectives and learning more about why people do what they do

It's not about lowering standards but actually seeing people for their own unique set of goals and talents while also recognizing the opportunities and obstacles in their situation

Again, the elitist mindset is that because you have money and a degree you can just pop up and present the solution for the pea brained proles that refuse to reach for their bootstraps

Like asking where's the black doctors amongst a crowd of kids that can't even afford a pencil

Do you actually understand the people you speak on or see them as fodder for an agenda?

Cause what real world dealing do you have with the people you see as "unremarkable"?

I dont think profitability itself is a sign of success but it self can reflect in its ability to employ and elevate others. However, I’m not saying anyone is TRULY better than the next person. i.e.. I dont think rich people should freely murder poor people.

But the efforts and investments others offer to the group differ. You can’t evade that.

Yeah, they differ but does it really matter? It's not a competition of resources. As long as people contribute earnestly, the community benefits

The focus shouldn't be about the individuals, but the whole of black people.

What is excellence without rare and unique achievements?

We all have unique talents, so just by being ourselves we all have rare achievements to contribute

You're devaluing the impact that everyday people can have. It's takes many influencers to make us the people we grow to be. And I can guarantee the person with the biggest impact on your life doesn't fit your criteria for black excellence

I don’t either. Why is Lil Bill talking down to people with degrees when in reality we know what they did was more valuable to the community?

What is value? Do you think everyone has the same criteria?

YOU were the one who made the comparison. It feels like you’re afraid to really address the reality of the dynamic. not me.

And I'm asking for your position on it

I’m black. We went from one of the poorest neighborhoods in one of the blackest states and cities in the country where I live to the nicest parts by sheer effort and planning by the time I got to middle school.

Yall really are trying to guilt shame success.

Who talks like this?

What neighborhood and what state, Nap?

And don't use google

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I know we ain't speaking your first language, so I'll clarify. That was was we call a simile, sir

I was making a comparison between two ideas. Elitism and slavery. Two abhorrent things that certain individuals try to justify.

Show an example. Insults and jibs aren’t natural to you so pretending to being some linguist doesn’t come off as unrehearsed as you planned.

You gave your two categories of real vs functional elitism. Which I can see through as a clear attempt to downplay the negative aspects inherent to the idea, much in the same way chattel slavery is contrasted with traditional slavery by apologists to minimize the Bible's justification of slavery

Not everything is slavery. You’re better than this.

Why is black elitism bad?

In other words, I ain't going for it

It means seeking out and listening to the experiences of others. Gaining new perspectives and learning more about why people do what they do

We’ve done that. What don’t we grasp and what are we supposed to do with that information we gain? Do we tolerate it? Do we lower standards? Do we adjust standards? What is supposed to be changed with that information?

I mean we can factor in a wider range of opinions, but…to what end? What are you saying here?

It's not about lowering standards but actually seeing people for their own unique set of goals and talents while also recognizing the opportunities and obstacles in their situation

Again, the elitist mindset is that because you have money and a degree you can just pop up and present the solution for the pea brained proles that refuse to reach for their bootstraps

Someone is going to be making decisions and I’d rather it be people who at least have a closer connection to that community.

Which is it? Elitists aren’t listening or that they’re not persuaded and thus shouldn’t be tolerated? Which is it?

You can be listened to, and still rejected. Happens all the time in court.

Like asking where's the black doctors amongst a crowd of kids that can't even afford a pencil

Thats not a doctor problem.

Do you actually understand the people you speak on or see them as fodder for an agenda?

What agenda?

Cause what real world dealing do you have with the people you see as "unremarkable"?

I didn’t say anyone was unremarkable. Im asking what we gain by equating these experiences when one inherently offers more access and freedom to bring back to others?

Yeah, they differ but does it really matter? It's not a competition of resources. As long as people contribute earnestly, the community benefits

This isn’t what you started out by arguing.

I’m asking whats wrong with black elitism. You’re talking about communal benefits.

The focus shouldn't be about the individuals, but the whole of black people.

The black people who listen should be rewarded...

Those who dont, may not be quick to be rewarded...

We all have unique talents, so just by being ourselves we all have rare achievements to contribute

ehhhhhhh

Where is your evidence of this?

You're devaluing the impact that everyday people can have. It's takes many influencers to make us the people we grow to be. And I can guarantee the person with the biggest impact on your life doesn't fit your criteria for black excellence

Why struggle to be ordinary?

What is value? Do you think everyone has the same criteria?

And I'm asking for your position on it

You keep assuming that this notion of “the every day person” means something when I keep asking you justify it you keep reverting back to some assumed argument you’ve never established for yourself.

Who talks like this?

What neighborhood and what state, Nap?

And don't use google

I’m not revealing personal info. I already proved to you that I’m black so stop deflecting when you get an answer you don’t like.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I liked They cloned Tyrone but I liked Undercover Brother better.

And there’s a whole trope of the evil Da Man in movies sometimes being an Opp or an ally like the CIA agent in Black Panther.

They Cloned Tyrone was a little too on the nose for me especially the we already had Black Dynamite and lacks some of the finesse of a more confident director and writer.