Tribal Outkast
Veteran
What’s taking so long then? He’s been retired more than 20 years.
Dwayne Wade Says Michael Jordan Will Be Forgotten In Future GOAT Conversations Like Abdul Jabbar
- Thread starter BK The Great
- Start date
It's already starting now with the younger generation who has players like Kobe and Bron as their GOATs. They weren't old enough to remember Jordan during his prime nor are a lot of them hardcore basketball fans like that to do their research on how great of a player he was.
Them knowing about Jordan sneakers doesn't necessarily mean that they know about Jordan the player like that.
People don’t want to hear this but in a sense he’s right.
But my one pushback is that if you ask most people who is the greatest boxer ever, do they still say Ali? They did when I was young and he was retired for 30 years lol…his name is still spoken of today as the goat…unless the young generation thinks it’s Mayweather
But my one pushback is that if you ask most people who is the greatest boxer ever, do they still say Ali? They did when I was young and he was retired for 30 years lol…his name is still spoken of today as the goat…unless the young generation thinks it’s Mayweather
That's irrelevant to the subject that's being discussed.
Is Jordan the only icon that ever existed?
Can you name any other icons in sports or the world that never lost their ranking to the collective community at some point? Serious question….
Michael Jackson? But he’s only been dead a decade…
The Jordans and Lebrons would never be forgotten.
2 players that led their teams, played above the rim, AND won MVPs and titles.
Look, I have no issue with ppl calling kareem the GOAT, but the fact is, the younger players would probably laugh at a shot like the sky hook, even though it was one of the most effective shots of all time.
The thing is, the NBA will always have great players and the generation at the time, will mostly favor them.
Hell, look at how a lot of today's generation try and say pac and biggie are overrated and nikkaz like lil durk and lil baby are better
2 players that led their teams, played above the rim, AND won MVPs and titles.
Look, I have no issue with ppl calling kareem the GOAT, but the fact is, the younger players would probably laugh at a shot like the sky hook, even though it was one of the most effective shots of all time.
The thing is, the NBA will always have great players and the generation at the time, will mostly favor them.
Hell, look at how a lot of today's generation try and say pac and biggie are overrated and nikkaz like lil durk and lil baby are better
Greenhornet
A God Among Kings
only applies to people that didnt see it. You can use the same thinking in boxing
people dont talk about Joe Louis or whoever anymore, but what he did was far more remarkable than shyt that happened in 80s and 90s.
people debate TYSON vs ALI when Tyson was undersized and food for real heavyweight legends at the end of his career
Ali is looked at as universal goat for his ability to get himself in bad situations, back his words up as a real champion, and fight as a black man through religious peril.
Hundreds of great boxers are immediately forgotten, same as NBA. This angle proves that if you havent seen some shyt, you will never understand its power. If Dr J would have won the same as Jordan, he would have been looked at how Jordan is today.
Without Magic and Bird, you dont get Michael Jordan or the international explosion that propelled the game into what it is today.
Lowkey people avoid the fact that shyt also gets watered down and made more friendly (similar to boxing)
Where you fought 10s of matches a year with little prep or recovery and sports film before... now you do maybe 2 fights a year
people train across the globe with the best angles possible and handheld super computers with stats and slo-mo of the opponent.... its incomparable. One is drastically more difficult but people seem to avoid how that matters majorly
Its no different than people saying Kyrie or AI were the best ballhandlers of all time. Nobody could fathom it in 1990 because you werent able to palm the ball and carry, hesitation dribble and change directions halfway through an in and out. If you did that in 1988 people would laugh and kick you off the court. You cant compare 2 things that didnt exist. Its alot easier (HARDEN) to fukk up taking tools away. Then it is taking a 1980s player and allowing them to do more. Like imagine if you told Pistol Pete "you can palm and carry the ball now when you drive" his mind would be blown he would be diming like fukking crazy. If you played early 90s till now you would immediately notice how step back changed the game. You just couldnt step back like that in the early 90s, it was immediate travel. Thats where you get that in and out step back Penny Hardaway spin from the elbow. If he would have walked they would have boo'd and laughed him off the court.
Its harder to convince younger people that something is effective, rather than showing them how shyt actually worked and could be applied. Kareem has been saying it for decades with the Skyhook... Dirk did his one leg fade towards the end. MJ developed a swinging fade that was nearly unblockable. These moves came in clutch and won rings because the person using them was masterful. It has nothing to do with the competition in front of you. Kareem developed the skyhook because he came in playing against Wilt and needed to get his shyt off. It worked. There's plenty of good shooters throughout history but there's not many people with tools to have a go to shot. Anyone could develop and practice a bread and butter move. But you simply dont have that anymore. Completely different game and mindset with no contact, who wants to shoot a one leg fade over contact when you could just come off a pindown and shoot open behind your PF or C with no contact? Same applies to driving the lane, of course more people are going to finish and dunk on eachother when you get thrown out for defending the rim today. You know shyt is backwards when people dont get hurt based off getting actually banged up... but how they take off and land with non contact injuries.
So sure everything will be forgotten but that doesnt change history at all. Wilt will always be looked at as a dude with giant numbers and losing to Bill. If you ignore or didnt see part of the game, thats really on you. Most people are too dumb in any medium to understand circumstance of era and rules. That goes to music, art etc. You can say Chuck Berry or Black Sabbath came with "hard rock" but cant compare it today. They didnt have these effects and sound systems etc. The magic isnt the song and dance, its the innovation and originality. Nobody on earth was as inventive or groundbreaking to create a space that major in the realm of creativity. No different than saying Joe Budden is better than Grandmaster Flash... you cant compare a dude who can record in his bedroom on a cheap setup, to people literally creating drum machines and inventing rhythmic language over disco and funk. One is totally groundbreaking and original to an entire movement and culture, the other is a guy who would probably have never done it if it wasnt for someone else inventing it. People havent seen enough ingenuity to understand a groundbreaking experience. Saying people are better now, is throwing Dr J's reverse layup out the window... people only do that now because he created it. Thats a hard concept for people to grasp. Nobody thought of doing that and it changed everything, thats alot different than just being born into knowing it and doing it normally. Same with Steph shooting a deeper 3... its always been there. It just took a dude with a struggling start to his career to say "fukk it, I'm more open here and I can lure the defense out later on" Certain shyt breaks through and changes the game and you cant compare it to anything else. Like I said, its easier to grow and actually watch things unfold than it is to tell someone who just doesnt care about how things happened. A Vietnam vet experienced that, you cant just tell someone in 2008 about Vietnam, they dont give a fukk. Things are circumstantial ... its the people who fukk things up not the game. Alot of these men can be considered GOATS from different angles, when you downplay one for another is when you come off cultish and weird. 2pac is my favorite rapper and people argue him or Biggie, but its arguable that neither are the best at all. And its not really a hard argument to have to be honest.
people dont talk about Joe Louis or whoever anymore, but what he did was far more remarkable than shyt that happened in 80s and 90s.
people debate TYSON vs ALI when Tyson was undersized and food for real heavyweight legends at the end of his career
Ali is looked at as universal goat for his ability to get himself in bad situations, back his words up as a real champion, and fight as a black man through religious peril.
Hundreds of great boxers are immediately forgotten, same as NBA. This angle proves that if you havent seen some shyt, you will never understand its power. If Dr J would have won the same as Jordan, he would have been looked at how Jordan is today.
Without Magic and Bird, you dont get Michael Jordan or the international explosion that propelled the game into what it is today.
Lowkey people avoid the fact that shyt also gets watered down and made more friendly (similar to boxing)
Where you fought 10s of matches a year with little prep or recovery and sports film before... now you do maybe 2 fights a year
people train across the globe with the best angles possible and handheld super computers with stats and slo-mo of the opponent.... its incomparable. One is drastically more difficult but people seem to avoid how that matters majorly
Its no different than people saying Kyrie or AI were the best ballhandlers of all time. Nobody could fathom it in 1990 because you werent able to palm the ball and carry, hesitation dribble and change directions halfway through an in and out. If you did that in 1988 people would laugh and kick you off the court. You cant compare 2 things that didnt exist. Its alot easier (HARDEN) to fukk up taking tools away. Then it is taking a 1980s player and allowing them to do more. Like imagine if you told Pistol Pete "you can palm and carry the ball now when you drive" his mind would be blown he would be diming like fukking crazy. If you played early 90s till now you would immediately notice how step back changed the game. You just couldnt step back like that in the early 90s, it was immediate travel. Thats where you get that in and out step back Penny Hardaway spin from the elbow. If he would have walked they would have boo'd and laughed him off the court.
Its harder to convince younger people that something is effective, rather than showing them how shyt actually worked and could be applied. Kareem has been saying it for decades with the Skyhook... Dirk did his one leg fade towards the end. MJ developed a swinging fade that was nearly unblockable. These moves came in clutch and won rings because the person using them was masterful. It has nothing to do with the competition in front of you. Kareem developed the skyhook because he came in playing against Wilt and needed to get his shyt off. It worked. There's plenty of good shooters throughout history but there's not many people with tools to have a go to shot. Anyone could develop and practice a bread and butter move. But you simply dont have that anymore. Completely different game and mindset with no contact, who wants to shoot a one leg fade over contact when you could just come off a pindown and shoot open behind your PF or C with no contact? Same applies to driving the lane, of course more people are going to finish and dunk on eachother when you get thrown out for defending the rim today. You know shyt is backwards when people dont get hurt based off getting actually banged up... but how they take off and land with non contact injuries.
So sure everything will be forgotten but that doesnt change history at all. Wilt will always be looked at as a dude with giant numbers and losing to Bill. If you ignore or didnt see part of the game, thats really on you. Most people are too dumb in any medium to understand circumstance of era and rules. That goes to music, art etc. You can say Chuck Berry or Black Sabbath came with "hard rock" but cant compare it today. They didnt have these effects and sound systems etc. The magic isnt the song and dance, its the innovation and originality. Nobody on earth was as inventive or groundbreaking to create a space that major in the realm of creativity. No different than saying Joe Budden is better than Grandmaster Flash... you cant compare a dude who can record in his bedroom on a cheap setup, to people literally creating drum machines and inventing rhythmic language over disco and funk. One is totally groundbreaking and original to an entire movement and culture, the other is a guy who would probably have never done it if it wasnt for someone else inventing it. People havent seen enough ingenuity to understand a groundbreaking experience. Saying people are better now, is throwing Dr J's reverse layup out the window... people only do that now because he created it. Thats a hard concept for people to grasp. Nobody thought of doing that and it changed everything, thats alot different than just being born into knowing it and doing it normally. Same with Steph shooting a deeper 3... its always been there. It just took a dude with a struggling start to his career to say "fukk it, I'm more open here and I can lure the defense out later on" Certain shyt breaks through and changes the game and you cant compare it to anything else. Like I said, its easier to grow and actually watch things unfold than it is to tell someone who just doesnt care about how things happened. A Vietnam vet experienced that, you cant just tell someone in 2008 about Vietnam, they dont give a fukk. Things are circumstantial ... its the people who fukk things up not the game. Alot of these men can be considered GOATS from different angles, when you downplay one for another is when you come off cultish and weird. 2pac is my favorite rapper and people argue him or Biggie, but its arguable that neither are the best at all. And its not really a hard argument to have to be honest.
Crayola Coyote
Superstar
Wade need to stay in his son life
Exactly, he’s the standard
As long as future talent keeps getting comparisons to him and his accomplishments his name will not be forgotten
Tribal Outkast
Veteran
These current guys grew up on Kobe and Lebron. They SHOULD be held higher than Jordan for them. To act like Jordan’s name will be forgotten is ridiculous though., All these old ass athletes that still get brought up today.
Of course they still get brought up today, but not in the same manor and vein that they did years ago because of time. A lot of the younger generation doesn't know about those old ass athletes and historians or people who pay attention to the game like that are the ones who do. Not everyone is a historian or hardcore enough that will actually do the research to remember how great those players were, therefore you depend on nostalgia and people's biases to keep those people mentioned in the conversation.
That's how it works and people before have been having these same exact conversations.
