Elway was overrated right?
- Thread starter Trip
- Start date
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
I think he was agreeing with you that he could.
I didn't infer anything I called it how it was. Like I said before you made a reach there. Nowhere in my post or my mind was anything about his abilities but somehow you have convinced yourself that it was despite all kinds of evidence to the contrary. The funniest part was that you agree with my premise and have provided reasoning in support of it and yet continue to argue.
What exactly are you arguing about?
Field Marshall Bradley
Veteran
The funniest part was that you agree with my premise and have provided reasoning in support of it and yet continue to argue.
Nah. I'm not reaching. The premise of this thread was that Elway is overrated and you cosigned it in your own words and said that a ringless 37 year old QB would not be starting in today's league.(Although Hasselback and Kerry Collins did)
Nowhere in this thread was the economic model of the NFL discussed(at least not prior to your post) which is the main catalyst for the QB youth movement in the league right now. Why would you comment on a topic that wasn't even brought up
You were not referring to how the NFL does business financially, you were implying that Elway would not start simply because his skilset would be eroded and he had no body of work to stand on to warrant another starting position
illwittdeez
aka Breh Wyatt
at the negativity in this thread.....I clearly stated that a QB wouldnt' be starting FOR THE TEAM THAT DRAFTED HIM at an advanced age. Plenty of old QBs have been starters for a variety of reasons in recent years but none of them have remained in that capacity for the team that drafted them for that long without great numbers or a ring to show for it.
My point was that Elway would be viewed differently if he played today. Average numbers and no rings (regardless of what his abilities are) would not be enough for a guy to stay around for 15 years today. Thusly the two rings and late career upswing don't happen most likely. Thusly his career would be viewed and rated differently. Guys don't get chances like Elway got anymore. That's my point. Donovan is the perfect example of Elway's likely fate if he played today.
But still what's funny is that you take issue with my assertion yet you agree and provide evidence that supports it.
Seriously how can you not see the irony/humor there?Elway's pre-1993 stats are pedestrian, but consider the following:
1. Dan Reeves favored a conservative, run-first offense (even though the Broncos did not have standout running backs during that time). I think Reeves' system held Elway back from putting up better numbers. It's no coincidence that there was a very significant jump in his stats right after Reeves was fired. He put up better numbers in his mid 30s with Wade Phillips and Mike Shanahan than he did in his prime with Reeves.
2. Elway did not have much help offensively up until the 1996. Compare the offensive help (in terms of number of pro-bowl receivers, running backs and offensive lineman) that Elway had from 1983-92 with the help Montana and Marino had, and it's really not close. I'm not saying Elway is better (or even as good, necessarily) as Montana and Marino, but difference in supporting cast goes a long way towards explaining the gap in their numbers. Shannon Sharpe emerged in 1993, but the Broncos had little else. It wasn't until 1996 (Mike Shanahan's second season), when Terrell Davis emerged and Shanahan had gotten the team comfortable with his offense that the Broncos had a championship-caliber offense.
3. Elway did a lot of little things that you don't see in the stats. He could perform well under pressure. He had a great arm. And he was very mobile. He could make something out of broken plays where he was forced out of the pocket, and he was an excellent running quarterback. I can remember several crucial third and fourth downs in the playoffs where Denver's pass protection broke down, none of their receivers were open, and Elway broke off a 7 or 8 yard run to bail them out.
1. Dan Reeves favored a conservative, run-first offense (even though the Broncos did not have standout running backs during that time). I think Reeves' system held Elway back from putting up better numbers. It's no coincidence that there was a very significant jump in his stats right after Reeves was fired. He put up better numbers in his mid 30s with Wade Phillips and Mike Shanahan than he did in his prime with Reeves.
2. Elway did not have much help offensively up until the 1996. Compare the offensive help (in terms of number of pro-bowl receivers, running backs and offensive lineman) that Elway had from 1983-92 with the help Montana and Marino had, and it's really not close. I'm not saying Elway is better (or even as good, necessarily) as Montana and Marino, but difference in supporting cast goes a long way towards explaining the gap in their numbers. Shannon Sharpe emerged in 1993, but the Broncos had little else. It wasn't until 1996 (Mike Shanahan's second season), when Terrell Davis emerged and Shanahan had gotten the team comfortable with his offense that the Broncos had a championship-caliber offense.
3. Elway did a lot of little things that you don't see in the stats. He could perform well under pressure. He had a great arm. And he was very mobile. He could make something out of broken plays where he was forced out of the pocket, and he was an excellent running quarterback. I can remember several crucial third and fourth downs in the playoffs where Denver's pass protection broke down, none of their receivers were open, and Elway broke off a 7 or 8 yard run to bail them out.
yseJ
Empire strikes back
elway with shanny >>>>>>>>>>>> elway without shanny
And what has Shanahan done post-Elway?
And there's no coincidence that when Shanahan came back, the Broncos had a solid running game again. Shanahan was just lucky to have a HOF QB.
this isnt true
yseJ
Empire strikes back
have a top 5 offense with jake fukking plummer ?
made mike anderson and tatum bell 1k yard rushers in ZBS ?
made peyton hillis tatum bell and selvin young average 5 yards per carry in ZBS ?
terrell davis and shanny were the main catalyst for broncos on their road to SB wins. elway couldnt do it without them.
Yeah it is.
Its sad becasue young guys under 30 something will just see stats from qbs in the 80's and compare it to players today and think they werent as good when the rules make it to where even medicore qbs are gonna put up stats nowadays where it used to be much harder to play the position.
Same thigns gonna happen with wr's,wr's today are gonna smash all the records and put up better stats then old school wrs becasue of the rules
Same thigns gonna happen with wr's,wr's today are gonna smash all the records and put up better stats then old school wrs becasue of the rules