End Private Property, Not Personal Property

[JahFocus CS]

Any societies, civilizations or empires in history that can be a model for helping Afrikans and the diaspora?

I don't think in those terms. We don't live in a world in which people are completely or mostly walled off from each other based on race. The world market has ensured that people of all races interact with each other, exchanging goods and working together. Further, the material circumstances that societies from thousands of years ago existed under, no longer exist and are so different from the world we live in today as to be irrelevant to discussions of what should be done now. Unless you want to stubbornly adhere to a political fetishization of race, one that says races have immutable and eternal characteristics, dispositions, and interests. And if you adhere to that, I don't know what to tell you after the past 3 or however many pages of me critiquing that idea.

I'll state it again: I do not care whatsoever for any idea that suggests the masses of Afrikans should fall in line behind Afrikan elites, risking their lives to ensure that Afrikan elites have an equal opportunity to cacs to exploit Black (and other) labor to become rich. I do not care whatsoever for any idea that suggests the masses of Afrikans should privilege race over other oppressions that afflict them (sexism, homophobia, etc.). In fact, I resolutely oppose both ideas.

I would recommend reading African Socialist International - History.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Sure. Let's start with the author's implication that bosses own the means of production. :yadontsay:

Don't be disingenuous. By "boss" we mean whoever owns the proceeds of a worker's labor (there was a time in the early days of capitalism when a "boss" was directly a factory owner, there weren't always so many layers of bureaucracy and a managerial sub-class). In today's world, that could mean major shareholders -- people most workers likely wouldn't even come into contact with. We don't mean the manager at McDonald's, even though managers represent the interests of owners (that's their job).

 

[ill]

Don't be disingenuous. By "boss" we mean whoever owns the proceeds of a worker's labor (there was a time in the early days of capitalism when a "boss" was directly a factory owner, there weren't always so many layers of bureaucracy and a managerial sub-class). In today's world, that could mean major shareholders -- people most workers likely wouldn't even come into contact with. We don't mean the manager at McDonald's, even though managers represent the interests of owners (that's their job).

Wouldn't an Employee Stock plan solve your issue? Employees are allowed to buy equity stock in their company at discounted rates thus they "own" their own production?

 

[88m3]

Don't be disingenuous. By "boss" we mean whoever owns the proceeds of a worker's labor (there was a time in the early days of capitalism when a "boss" was directly a factory owner, there weren't always so many layers of bureaucracy and a managerial sub-class). In today's world, that could mean major shareholders -- people most workers likely wouldn't even come into contact with. We don't mean the manager at McDonald's, even though managers represent the interests of owners (that's their job).

Why don't you start your own company and then problem solved?!

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/2302541/fukkin-voila-o.gif

 

[JahFocus CS]

Wouldn't an Employee Stock plan solve your issue? Employees are allowed to buy equity stock in their company at discounted rates thus they "own" their own production?

That wouldn't go far enough. This is a good exploration of this notion: Reader asks about employee ownership - World Socialist Web Site

There are those who argue that worker cooperatives can lead to socialism. I support worker cooperatives but disagree with that position because they will fall to the same imperatives as regular capitalist firms.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Why don't you start your own company and then problem solved?!

I have and encourage everyone to give entrepreneurship a try at least once in their life.

However, most businesses fail. Not everyone can own a self-sustaining company given the nature of an industrial society. Output would collapse. So that's unrealistic unless you want to go back to the small production of the Middle Ages.

 

[Tate]

Lol this thread is great man

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Don't be disingenuous. By "boss" we mean whoever owns the proceeds of a worker's labor (there was a time in the early days of capitalism when a "boss" was directly a factory owner, there weren't always so many layers of bureaucracy and a managerial sub-class). In today's world, that could mean major shareholders -- people most workers likely wouldn't even come into contact with. We don't mean the manager at McDonald's, even though managers represent the interests of owners (that's their job).

A modern boss doesn't own the proceeds of a worker's labor (or anything related to the company 99% of the time). It's not like if a hiring manager doesn't hire a worker they get to keep the wages they would have paid out The whole premise of the author's stance on hiring doesn't make sense. Should a hiring manager or owner have no say in who works for them or how much they get paid? Because that is what the author seems to be implying, which is an idea that goes beyond the already far reaching scope of socialism as is. Which is ironic considering the top down way the socialist ideology is disseminated. Everything pivots around Marxist ideologies and 19th century relationships between workers and owners.

 

[JahFocus CS]

A modern boss doesn't own the proceeds of a worker's labor (or anything related to the company 99% of the time). It's not like if a hiring manager doesn't hire a worker they get to keep the wages they would have paid out The whole premise of the author's stance on hiring doesn't make sense. Should a hiring manager or owner have no say in who works for them or how much they get paid? Because that is what the author seems to be implying, which is an idea that goes beyond the already far reaching scope of socialism as is. Which is ironic considering the top down way the socialist ideology is disseminated. Everything pivots around Marxist ideologies and 19th century relationships between workers and owners.

Reread my third sentence you bloody dolt.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Actually, fukk it. I'm done with this thread. Motherfukkers literally ignoring what you write

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Reread my third sentence you bloody dolt.

Shareholders are not making decisions on who gets hired or what anyone besides the CEO gets paid. That is the whole point of a publicly owned company. The employees of the company run it, the shareholders entrust them with near full authority to run it and only have input on major decisions like who the CEO is or if the company should go through a merger/purchase/sale etc. Someone who has shares in a market index fund isn't making hiring/wage calls for the hundreds of companies they own stakes in

 

[tmonster]

property tax revenue will be replaced with what?

we can come up with something, it's all about solutions

 

[88m3]

we can come up with something, it's all about solutions

I'm not hearing any.

How would you upkeep the properties and with what money?

I'm supposed to pay for Rufus's single family home in west bum fukk?

I didn't think so so how do you propose a force urbanization legally when there already isn't enough houses....


Should we just roll right on to wiping out 30% of the population? I'm all ears.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Don't be disingenuous. By "boss" we mean whoever owns the proceeds of a worker's labor (there was a time in the early days of capitalism when a "boss" was directly a factory owner, there weren't always so many layers of bureaucracy and a managerial sub-class). In today's world, that could mean major shareholders -- people most workers likely wouldn't even come into contact with. We don't mean the manager at McDonald's, even though managers represent the interests of owners (that's their job).

do you have any dreams of creating a business?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

we can come up with something, it's all about solutions

the de jure answer of people who never suggest any