Explain the logic behind placing LEBRON above SHAQ

[Sccit]

SHAQ, EASILY.......LEBRON IS STILL REACHIN FOR THAT TOP TIER, AND HE MIGHT SLIP EVEN FARTHER DOWN IF HE LOSE ANOTHER FINALS

 

[Standing on business]

Some all-time greats' Finals records since the 1980 Playoffs (1st Playoffs with the 3-point line, active players in bold):

Michael Jordan: 6-0
Kobe Bryant: 5-2
Tim Duncan: 5-1
Magic Johnson: 5-4
Shaquille O'Neal: 4-2
Larry Bird: 3-2
Dwyane Wade: 3-2
Isaiah Thomas/Joe Dumars: 2-1
Hakeem Olajuwon: 2-1
LeBron James: 2-3

That right there is the historical perspective of where LeBron is at right now. He's only 30 so he can still climb that list. I don't see Cleveland beating the Warriors this year. If they do that certainly adds to his legacy.

how come magic dont get criticized for losing in the finals as much as lebron

 

[Newzz]

Well for starters his starting lineup in one of those Finals featured Sasha Pavlovic, Drew Gooden, Big Z, and Larry Hughes . That certainly isn't the quality he would have had out west. Heat were top heavy and soft in the middle and they were still a Bron performance from going 3-1 in the Finals. If OKC is healthy they beat them last year. There is no if he's more familiar against those Western teams and their defensive strategies. You notice that never happened in the East (for an entire series) and he was playing against some great defensive teams (Pistons, Celtics, Pacers). Sure he had some struggles but never completely frozen like that. So yeah you put him on a team with more depth and better bigs and have him going against teams he's familiar with that play a more free flowing game and I'm not seeing what stops him. The West just has deeper, better run teams. Bron would flourish out there. Just look at the stars that came East from the West (Melo, Amare, D. Will). None of them have come close to the success they experienced out West, despite being in the inferior conference.

It was worse than that.....Boobie Gibson started 2 of those games in place of Larry Hughes ad Mike Brown was the head coach

 

[Standing on business]

SHAQ, EASILY.......LEBRON IS STILL REACHIN FOR THAT TOP TIER, AND HE MIGHT SLIP EVEN FARTHER DOWN IF HE LOSE ANOTHER FINALS

 

[Ed MOTHEREFFING G]

Marc Gasol, DeMarcus Cousins, DeAndre Jordan, Joakim Noah, Al Jefferson, Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, Al Horford, Nikola Vucevic, Nikola Pekovic > Those Centers from that era (Brad Miller, Greg Ostertag, etc)

NO @ the bolded. and...

Is marc gasol REALLY much better than brad miller? and miller was never showcased...

02-09 brad miller vs. 09-15 marc gasol

name - ppg - rpg - bpg - ast - fg
brad - 13.2 - 8.4 - 1 - 3.5 - .49
marc - 15.1 - 8.4 - 1.6 - 3 - .50

thats WITHOUT having an offense built for you. basically a single bucket better. and marc gasol is heralded as some monster.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

I report all his posts

 

[Newzz]

Is marc gasol REALLY much better than brad miller? and miller was never showcased...

02-09 brad miller vs. 09-15 marc gasol

name - ppg - rpg - bpg - ast - fg
brad - 13.2 - 8.4 - 1 - 3.5 - .49
marc - 15.1 - 8.4 - 1.6 - 3 - .50

thats WITHOUT having an offense built for you. basically a single bucket better. and marc gasol is heralded as some monster.

I wouldnt say he's MUCH better than Brad Miller, I actually thought Brad Miller was a decent Center. However, Marc Gasol is better defensively and overall, I would say Marc Gasol is maybe a B Center while Miller was C+. Im not that high on Marc Gasol as others are.


The thing is though, just looking at the starting Centers in the NBA from 2000-2004 (Shaq's 4 Finals appearances in 5 years), it was worse than the Centers today if we had the time to list them all. It was so bad that Dirk and Jermaine O'Neal played as C's when they were both legit PFs. Stoudemire too.


Hassan Whiteside alone is better than every true Center Shaq played in the playoffs period from 2000-2004, except Yao and Mutombo

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

I wouldnt say he's MUCH better than Brad Miller, I actually thought Brad Miller was a decent Center. However, Marc Gasol is better defensively and overall, I would say Marc Gasol is maybe a B Center while Miller was C+. Im not that high on Marc Gasol as others are.


The thing is though, just looking at the starting Centers in the NBA from 2000-2004 (Shaq's 4 Finals appearances in 5 years), it was worse than the Centers today if we had the time to list them all. It was so bad that Dirk and Jermaine O'Neal played as C's when they were both legit PFs. Stoudemire too.


Hassan Whiteside alone is better than every true Center Shaq played in the playoffs period from 2000-2004, except Yao and Mutombo

But if he's doubled by the elite pfs of the era (webber dirk Duncan etc) its more than a wash

 

[Newzz]

But if he's doubled by the elite pfs of the era (webber dirk Duncan etc) its more than a wash

Good point


And the PFs from that era >>> Today's era.


So, you're right...it's a wash.

 

[GPBear]

(bill, wilt, jordan, kareem, magic )

 

[Regular_P]

Well for starters his starting lineup in one of those Finals featured Sasha Pavlovic, Drew Gooden, Big Z, and Larry Hughes . That certainly isn't the quality he would have had out west. Heat were top heavy and soft in the middle and they were still a Bron performance from going 3-1 in the Finals. If OKC is healthy they beat them last year. There is no if he's more familiar against those Western teams and their defensive strategies. You notice that never happened in the East (for an entire series) and he was playing against some great defensive teams (Pistons, Celtics, Pacers). Sure he had some struggles but never completely frozen like that. So yeah you put him on a team with more depth and better bigs and have him going against teams he's familiar with that play a more free flowing game and I'm not seeing what stops him. The West just has deeper, better run teams. Bron would flourish out there. Just look at the stars that came East from the West (Melo, Amare, D. Will). None of them have come close to the success they experienced out West, despite being in the inferior conference.

Melo, Amar'e and Williams are not transcendent players. Amar'e and D-Will both got injured shortly after going east too.

Again, no one holds 2007 against LeBron. It was amazing what he did dragging that team to the Finals, but the east was still trash. Flip's coaching performance in the '07 ECF was appalling.

Those Miami teams were as talented as any out west the past four years. Last season they were just gassed from all those deep playoff runs. They would not have made it out of the first round in the west. But, they played in a conference where the Pacers were the #1 seed and the only other decent team, they got back to the Finals.

I'm not arguing that LeBron isn't an all-time great. He's top-ten all-time when it's all said and done, but overlooking what he's gone against in the east is like willingly covering your eyes.

Look at how they dusted Chicago in the second round with Kyrie on one leg and LeBron didn't even play that well. Jimmy Butler was locking him up and he shot under 40% for the series. You think that's getting it done against a western conference team?

He has a lot more leeway when he's going against eastern conference teams. Are you going to disagree with that statement?

 

[Sccit]

LEBRON IS IN THE DR. J, DOMINIQUE WILKINS, ISIAH THOMAS CLASS......WHICH IS NOT BAD, BUT FAR FROM WHAT HIS GROUPIES TRY MAKIN HIM OUT TO BE.

 

[meth68]

Did we just compare Brad Miller to Marc Gasol?

 

[Liquid]

Honestly man I'm not gonna entertain that weak ass point

How is that a weak point when rings and finals appearances are being thrown into this discussion?

 

[Arithmetic]

I hate to go all Steve Nash on you here, but IMO LeBron makes his teammates slightly better than Shaq did.

It's close, but I'm giving LeBron the edge. What series has Shaq taken over and advanced without a top 5 Wing? The best player LeBron is playing with right now is an always inconsistent J.R. Smith.

Granted it's Atlanta, but whatever.

LeBron also did this to you Ed:

Brings a tear to my eye