for you historians out there, what was ECW's downfall?

[ZEB WALTON]

NO ONE was drawing in early 1990s WCW. GTFO. Abby was in a mid card tag team in WCW. He wasn't drawing shyt in that role. And no one else was drawing shyt in any other role. I can't believe you really think BRUISER BRODY wasn't as big of a draw as Abby. Or multiple touring NWA/AWA Champions who were champ specifically because they could draw crowds. Baba and Inoki always drew when they left Japan. Inoki especially, since he was so well known after the Ali fight.

Brody drew for 15 years. Abby drew for 50 not even close

 

[ZEB WALTON]

And you proceed to post only one video.

What am i ya slave. Google is ya friend. Sabu va 2cold. Sabu vs cactus. Sabu va taz. Sabu vs rvd. Go head

 

[mrken12]

What am i ya slave. Google is ya friend. Sabu va 2cold. Sabu vs cactus. Sabu va taz. Sabu vs rvd. Go head

I'll post the links in here if I can find them. Thanks for the matches.

 

[Playaz Eyez]

Ahhhhhhh 2 Cold Scorpio, THAT'S a guy who should be getting more props

 

[Wacky D]

Abby is a legendary piece of shyt, for sure. He's a legend in the same way that the Honky Tonk Man or any random WWE guy from 1988 could be considered a legend.

He was a piece of shyt who purposely tried to injure opponents, wouldn't do business with them, fukked over nearly every promoter he ever worked for, and lied about having god damn hepatitis for years when his entire gimmick was centered around bleeding everywhere.

whats the bolded all about?

 

[stro]

He has hepatitis (B, I think), and has kept it hidden for years even though he regularly was bleeding on people and even sharing the same blade (which he often didn't even ask to cut someone, he'd just do it). In the last few years, he was actually sued by another wrestler who contracted it from him in a match and had to pay a couple million dollars in damages for it.

 

[Willy Waffle]

Begining of the end was the mass transit situation. On the Forever Hardcore documentary thats what pushed them from getting a ppv deal by a year.

i disagree with that and lmao at them using new jack as a scapegoat. that incident didn't hold ecw back from doing barely legal and eventually doing the tnn deal. people need to face it,paul e fukked it on the business tip.

 

[KevCo]

i disagree with that and lmao at them using new jack as a scapegoat. that incident didn't hold ecw back from doing barely legal and eventually doing the tnn deal. people need to face it,paul e fukked it on the business tip.

Yea i agree...they claim it pushed the ppv company's away from the product...Jack was always the scapegoat for the company

 

[David_TheMan]

Heymon is a good talker.
He was a terrible businessman. Period.
They lost because they did not take care of their business, did not have a solid legal department, and Heyman was a piece of shyt person.

 

[SteelCitySoldier]

i disagree with that and lmao at them using new jack as a scapegoat. that incident didn't hold ecw back from doing barely legal and eventually doing the tnn deal. people need to face it,paul e fukked it on the business tip.

You took my post lol. They could have recovered from that and if anything it brought more publicity to them.

Like you pointed out they still the deal, and still had PPV's after that.

What i cant agree 100% on though is Heyman being the sole reason they failed. Did he take some bad decisions yes he did but he couldn't win when the PPV companies were holding back on their payments (no legal to help which was his fault) and then the way TNN did him.

Oh and like I said before I think Vince had something to do with that TNN shyt and may have had a hand in that PPV money taking forever to get to him...we all know what he told PPV companies when NWA/WCW wanted to run PPV's opposite him.

 

[stro]

Vince was giving money to ECW for years, and it being around benefited him both in the ability to get ready made talent, and to be a competitor to WCW (and ECW was drawing more people to shows and had bigger buy rates than WCW at the very end). Vince purposely fukking over an already on death's door ECW makes no sense.

 

[SteelCitySoldier]

Vince was giving money to ECW for years, and it being around benefited him both in the ability to get ready made talent, and to be a competitor to WCW (and ECW was drawing more people to shows and had bigger buy rates than WCW at the very end). Vince purposely fukking over an already on death's door ECW makes no sense.

Why keep a dying company alive when them being completely dead will make you more money?

He helped them when he needed to, they got him new talent along with new ideas. Like you said they were seeing better buy rates and drawing more people so why keep helping them when you can just take it over and keep all of the money?

Not saying your wrong but this is business and he wasnt an investor but was just "the bank" so to speak. He could have seen it growing and thought "why keep helping him out" when he could another great mind on his payroll along with taking that talent and using it for his own. Just my opinion.

 

[stro]

Why would ECW being dead make Vince more money? They weren't a competitor, and they weren't taking an audience away from WWE. Ever. ECW fans watched everything, despite the myth that they were only into ECW. ECW being around meant WWE always had access for new talent that were already semi-known on the national scene and wouldn't have to build them from the ground up.

Despite what people think, Vince was never trying to seriously put any group out of business except WCW. Even during the expansion era, he wasn't just taking top stars to be spiteful. When you go back and look, he was taking guys who had already done everything they could do and were even past their primes. He was almost never taking the top stars of various territories at the peak of their stardom there, and if he did, he compensated (most seen with Stampede).

Throughout the 90s, Vince always supported every minor company that wasn't WCW. He sent talent to USWA, SMW, and ECW regularly. In the late 90s/early 2000s, he sent talent to UPW before they were even developmental, and allowed talent to go to ROH multiple times. And today, Triple H was recently promoting EVOLVE dates on twitter.

 

[SteelCitySoldier]

Why would ECW being dead make Vince more money? They weren't a competitor, and they weren't taking an audience away from WWE. Ever. ECW fans watched everything, despite the myth that they were only into ECW. ECW being around meant WWE always had access for new talent that were already semi-known on the national scene and wouldn't have to build them from the ground up.

Despite what people think, Vince was never trying to seriously put any group out of business except WCW. Even during the expansion era, he wasn't just taking top stars to be spiteful. When you go back and look, he was taking guys who had already done everything they could do and were even past their primes. He was almost never taking the top stars of various territories at the peak of their stardom there, and if he did, he compensated (most seen with Stampede).

Throughout the 90s, Vince always supported every minor company that wasn't WCW. He sent talent to USWA, SMW, and ECW regularly.

ECW being dead would make Vince more money because he would own it. If they go out of business he gets those wrestlers on his tv shows nightly.

ECW fans watching everything isn't true. I lived in Philly when ECW first started going and they were on Public Access TV at 3am in the morning. There were nikkaz who'd walk in the house and say "bruh stop watching that shyt, you need to fuxk wit ECW" and that's what got me on them.

ECW was nothing different to Vince than the territories or for a better example NWA back in the day.

He used them for exposure and when he saw that he could exposure from them he wanted to part ways and buy them or put them out of business. Its what business men do...they want all the money not just a slice

 

[stro]

He could have had any of those wrestlers on his shows without ECW going out of business. And did. ECW fans definitely did watch other shyt. Watch how they popped like crazy anytime an ex WCW or WWF dude would show up. These mother fukkers lost their minds for Sid, a dude the hardcore 90s fan was supposed to hate with a passion for being a big stiff.

Vince did what he could for ECW. And SMW, and USWA. And post 2001, he's done what he could for indies, even when taking their talent. Gabe has admitted WWE has given him extra compensation for taking top ROH stars back in the day.