Gun Control vs Black Community

[Supper]

http://static2.businessinsider.com/...70/kaiser-foundation-gun-deaths-state-map.png

^^^^I've seen people bring up this chart of gun deaths by state to claim a correlation between gun law leniency and gun deaths. Little do most of them realize is that MOST gun deaths are by suicides, not homicides. More than 60 percent actually. So, that vastly inflates the statistics on 'gun deaths' dramatically.
Gun Deaths Are Mostly Suicides

Thus why I stick to comparing the HOMICIDE rates of each state vs the gun law stringency of each state. And then, particularly with the black homicide rate, you seen pretty much no correlation between the two, and even a little in favor of the gun law leniency.

 

[WaveCapsByOscorp™]

i'd be more interested in TRAINING the black community about weapons, self-defense, etc. than worrying about how gun laws effect the community. a good amount of time, minorities are left out of the discussion on laws and most of discussions on law all boils down to money, who's owed what and who's gonna get fukked over. most people having fights over gun control laws don't care so much about the community, they're concerned about what's going to happen to THEM.

 

[kenreid0726eabos]

I'm really interested in hearing the opinions of the ardent black gun control advocates on here.

I would like to hear some TANGIBLE ways from you all in which you believe gun control, particularly in the way of banning weapons or accessories, can actually or could potentially make our community safer, hopefully with some real examples of areas of success.

For instance, can you tell me what purpose and/or benefit exactly banning a weapon class like "assault rifles", will have for our community? Here's how homicides in Baltimore were broken down by weapon used.


2017 homicide data provide insight into Baltimore's gun wars, police say

Only six people were killed by a shotgun OR rifle last year in baltimore, assault rifles are ONE subset of the rifle group. There's a high chance that NO black person was killed in that city by an assault rifle out of the staggering number that were killed.

Maryland has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.
10 states with the strictest gun laws | Deseret News

For reference here's the US states by gun law stringency vs the black homicide rate

I'm not seeing ANY significant noticeable correlation here. In fact, this might show gun leniency to be slightly beneficial looking at California which has the strictest gun laws, yet one of the highest black homicide rates in the nation. Though, over all, as I've said time and time again the issue of the homicide rate in OUR community has much more to do with income, education, resources, family structure, systematic racism, development environment, and some culturized dysfunctions than how strict or loose gun laws are- But maybe you guys know something about gun laws their relation to the black community that I don't. Please do share.


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Also, I've heard "our kids are being killed/dying" as a rallying cry being used a lot here lately. And I'm wonder WHO'S KIDS are we talking about here exactly? Black kids? There have been:

146 people killed by police shootings vs 51 people killed by mass shootings, so far in 2018​

And that's using a very loose definition of 'mass shootings'- FOUR or more shot and/or killed in a single event [incident], at the same general time and location, not including the shooter
Fatal Force: 2018 police shootings database
Mass Shootings


I'm going to tell you right now that OUR KIDS, that being black youth, are EXPONENTIALLY more likely to be apart of that 146 killed by police shootings statistic than the 51 killed in mass shootings statistic, of which white people make up the majority of victims. And I don't see these same people(except for ONE) calling for gun control for the police. So, be honest, and tell us which kids do you REALLY have in mind when you say that in reference to the mass shootings? The ones you see getting all the air time on the mainstream media right now?


@GPBear I'm especially interested in hearing from you on this. Since you seem pretty passionate in my reps.


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What do/would you say to all of the currently active black grass roots activist groups with boots on the ground that do armed open/conceal carry patrols their communities looking our for innocent women, children, and elderly people in our community to keep them safe from violent crime, act as a front line barrier from WS being able to march through our community unchecked, and provide armed security for peaceful protest around the country(Yes, I can give examples of all of these if need be)?


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TLDR:

- How exactly does gun control benefit the black community, when the vast black people aren't killed by assault rifles, and the black homicide rates don't correlate at all with gun leniency in any state?

- Are black kids, the kids you have in mind that are being killed in mass shootings?

- How do you feel about the many armed black community groups that do grass roots work in this country?

I dislike black people stereotypes in Life

Not all black men are gangsters or thugs as I mention in this video

 

[Black Panther]

1. Background and mental health checks need to be performed before the sale of any gun.
   
   
2. Black people need to own guns at higher rates than they currently do.
   
   
3. Join and support African-American gun groups like NAAGA.

With that being said, gun control is needed.

I'm not talking about adding more laws in areas that are already heavily regulated: I'm talking about consistent, unilateral standards on a federal level.

Making laws about transporting weapons over state lines would be unnecessary if every state followed the federal standard. And even with those laws in place, guns get transported across state lines all the time.

Gun violence in the Chicago area, for example, is so high because the laws of neighboring states like Indiana, Wisconsin, and Michigan are comparatively lax.

 

[Supper]

i'd be more interested in TRAINING the black community about weapons, self-defense, etc. than worrying about how gun laws effect the community. a good amount of time, minorities are left out of the discussion on laws and most of discussions on law all boils down to money, who's owed what and who's gonna get fukked over. most people having fights over gun control laws don't care so much about the community, they're concerned about what's going to happen to THEM.

So, it's basically up in the air as to whether or not strict gun control laws makes the black community safer(from homicides) or not, but looking at a state to state comparison of gun law stringency and the black homicide rate, doesn't fare well for that notion. Gun law leniency actually seems to be slightly beneficial. But, again this issue boils down to much more complex issues of socio-economic, marginalization, racism, and inequality than anything related to gun laws, IMO.

What I can tell you is there are many black grass roots armed community groups in states with lenient gun laws that DO just what you said in the form of training and educating members of our community about guns, as well as regularly patrolling the community to keep it safe, and providing security for peaceful black protesters(the largest of which actively encourages it's members to purchase and be training with 'assault rifles', and you can see the guys with them in some of the vids I posted) who will be directly affected by any further infringing gun law restrictions.

And regardless, if we can both agree that gun laws stringency has little to no direct benefit to our community, then why are issues that by and large aren't relevant to us like assault rifle homicides and mass shootings keep being brought up here to sell the idea of gun control to us as if it's a black issue?

 

[WaveCapsByOscorp™]

So, it's basically up in the air as to whether or not strict gun control laws makes the black community safer(from homicides) or not, but looking at a state to state comparison of gun law stringency and the black homicide rate, doesn't fare well for that notion. Gun law leniency actually seems to be slightly beneficial. But, again this issue boils down to much more complex issues of socio-economic, marginalization, racism, and inequality than anything related to gun laws, IMO.

What I can tell you is there are many grass roots armed community groups in states with lenient gun laws that DO just what you said in the form of training and educating members of our community about guns, as well as regularly patrolling the community to keep it safe, and providing security for peaceful black protesters(the largest of which actively encourages it's members to purchase and be training with 'assault rifles') who will be directly effected by any further infringing gun law restrictions.

And regardless, if we can both agree that gun laws stringency has little to no direct benefit to our community, then why are issues that by and large aren't relevant to us like assault rifle homicides and mass shootings keep being brought up here to sell the idea of gun control to us as if it's a black issue?

Who said that gun control is just a black issue? It’s an American issue. What ever laws they decide on will effect everyone. I think there are other laws that indirectly impact black ownership that should be addressed if we isolate it just to the black community. Talking about those laws would be more helpful than talking about the laws being discussed now in relation to the black community. One issue would be former felon rights. They can’t vote, can’t own guns, etc. and then think at the same time the amount of blacks in prison, being stripped of their natural rights. If you can’t vote, you’re opinion on the matter doesn’t matter and won’t be counted at the end of the day. They isolate the black community thru tactics like this, not thru these new discussions on bans and control.

Are you referring to that dumb NRA puppet’s comments when you convolute the issues?

 

[Moesif]

I think you just changed opinion OP. Do you have any reference to these grass roots groups?

 

[Crude Abolitionist]

Damn they had a cac on there saying he felt safe!

Black people with guns not a scary sight...

White people with guns are.

 

[Supper]

1. Background and mental health checks need to be performed before the sale of any gun.
   
   
2. Black people need to own guns at higher rates than they currently do.
   
   
3. Join and support African-American gun groups like NAAGA.

Agreed on all fronts.

With that being said, gun control is needed.

I'm not talking about adding more laws in areas that are already heavily regulated: I'm talking about consistent, unilateral standards on a federal level.

Making laws about transporting weapons over state lines would be unnecessary if every state followed the federal standard. And even with those laws in place, guns get transported across state lines all the time.

Gun violence in the Chicago area, for example, is so high because the laws of neighboring states like Indiana, Wisconsin, and Michigan are comparatively lax.

I would agree in principle that we need unilateral standards, because I am also in favor of reciprocal carry permits that apply in all states. Though, I don't believe that means ADDING any more gun restrictions to the ones we already have. I believe that all states should simply adhere to the federal gun laws we already have in place, which includes bg checks.

The issue I have is mostly the way such background checks are enforced, such at the 72 hour waiting period the FBI has to run a potential the NICS, before they HAVE to sell the gun to the buyer, or the how the FBI, itself is negligent in many by not running a potiental buyer throw the full NICS check before clearing them to purchase the firearm, as such was the case of the Texas church shooter where the FBI had a backlog of people who should be banned from purchasing guns provided by the US military that they never checked.

Also, I don't agree that the high blacks homicides in states with strict gun laws solely come down guns coming in from neighboring states with lenient gun laws, because if that was the case then shouldn't the black homicide rate in those states with loose gun laws be even higher as they or the guns don't even have to cross state to access them? And furthermore why is it that only the BLACK homicide rate in those states tend to be high, but the overall homicide rate of those states(such as Cali) tend to be pretty low. But, at the same time states like Louisiana which has loose gun laws which has a high black homicide rate AND has a high homicide rate in general. Whereas states like Mississippi with loose gun laws has a high homicide rate in general, but a fairly below average black homicide rate. There's just no consistent correlation between gun laws stringency and the homicide rate.

 

[Supper]

I think you just changed opinion OP. Do you have any reference to these grass roots groups?

http://www.thecoli.com/posts/28478919/
http://www.thecoli.com/posts/28478976/
http://www.thecoli.com/posts/28481270/

Just some. I will probably pull up more that I've came across later.

 

[Supper]

Who said that gun control is just a black issue? It’s an American issue. What ever laws they decide on will effect everyone. I think there are other laws that indirectly impact black ownership that should be addressed if we isolate it just to the black community. Talking about those laws would be more helpful than talking about the laws being discussed now in relation to the black community.

I said they're presenting the issue to us as if it's a black issue, and I'm saying it by and large doesn't effect our community, and the evidence might actually point to strict gun control being a slight detriment to us.

Sure, there is no explicitly race specific laws in the books(save for NAs). But, that doesn't mean that the issues surrounding certain legislation don't disproportionately affect certain community groups. I think it's disingenuous to say that this is an American issue on a predom black forum without mentioning the fact that the black people are FAR under represented in being affected by the key issues surrounding gun laws, like the dangerous of assault rifles and mass shootings. So, I think it's reasonable to question the disproportionate enthusiasm here and from black politicians in favor of gun control, ask them to explain their reasoning, and question our collective community interest in it.

I've had posters tell me that we need gun control to stop WS from stockpiling weapons to target us for mass shootings
http://www.thecoli.com/posts/28414683/

One issue would be former felon rights. They can’t vote, can’t own guns, etc. and then think at the same time the amount of blacks in prison, being stripped of their natural rights. If you can’t vote, you’re opinion on the matter doesn’t matter and won’t be counted at the end of the day. They isolate the black community thru tactics like this, not thru these new discussions on bans and control.

But, there's nothing explicitly racial in felony restrictions in the various jurisdictions, so it's simply an 'American issue', just like you said, right? Except for the fact that we KNOW voter disenfranchisement disproportionately negatively affects black people, namely black men, thus is for all intents and purposes a 'black issue, unlike gun control. And we don't see the same amount of enthusiasm from black politicians or in general discussion by black people for getting that repealed as we do for gun control.

Are you referring to that dumb NRA puppet’s comments when you convolute the issues?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[WaveCapsByOscorp™]

I said they're presenting the issue to us as if it's a black issue, and I'm saying it by and large doesn't effect our community, and the evidence might actually point to strict gun control being a slight detriment to us.

Sure, there is no explicitly race specific laws in the books(save for NAs). But, that doesn't mean that the issues surrounding certain legislation don't disproportionately affect certain community groups. I think it's disingenuous to say that this is an American issue on a predom black forum without mentioning the fact that the black people are FAR under represented in being affected by the key issues surrounding gun laws, like the dangerous of assault rifles and mass shootings. So, I think it's reasonable to question the disproportionate enthusiasm here and from black politicians in favor of gun control, ask them to explain their reasoning, and question our collective community interest in it.

I've had posters tell me that we need gun control to stop WS from stockpiling weapons to target us for mass shootings
http://www.thecoli.com/posts/28414683/



But, there's nothing explicitly racial in felony restrictions in the various jurisdictions, so it's simply an 'American issue', just like you said, right? Except for the fact that we KNOW voter disenfranchisement disproportionately negatively affects black people, namely black men, thus is for all intents and purposes a 'black issue, unlike gun control. And we don't see the same amount of enthusiasm from black politicians or in general discussion by black people for getting that repealed as we do for gun control.



I have no idea what you're talking about.

How it disingenuous when at the same time I talked about how other laws impact black lives much more harshly? And these same laws and restrictions are what limit black ownership? Simply because I’m on a black forum?

Like I said, there are a lot of other laws that are effecting black weapon ownership. To consider their current discussion as reasons to reevaluate our place in the whole topic is fine. But to pretend like other laws that are currently on the books aren’t the reason for so much problems, or consider my attention to them “disingenuous” would be a gross mistake.

It’s as simple as worrying about a hypothesis to a problem that frankly they won’t do anything about when they’ve effective practice control on the community thru the laws I’ve already highlighted.

And, like I said, the idea on self defense restoring pride is where I’m coming from.

And who is presenting the issue like it’s a black issue? You? Because you’re the only one I’ve seen talk about the two together and make a thread about it. That’s why I keep asking you are you referring to the NRA spokesperson, that’s the only one who I’ve seen, on a national scale, attempt to deflect

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Guns don't just magically appear on the streets. Lax gun laws are the reason people have access to the guns. Better laws and aggressive pursuit of existing laws would go a long way to reducing gun violence.

Less guns on the street, less people get shot. Simple math.

 

[null]

How Australia All But Ended Gun Violence

 

[Supper]

How it disingenuous when at the same time I talked about how other laws impact black lives much more harshly? And these same laws and restrictions are what limit black ownership? Simply because I’m on a black forum?

I'm speaking with about the general discussion surrounding the issue that I've seen from black gun control advocates, not you, otherwise I would've addressed you specifically in the OP, and not "black gun control advocates".

Like I said, there are a lot of other laws that are effecting black weapon ownership. To consider their current discussion as reasons to reevaluate our place in the whole topic is fine. But to pretend like other laws that are currently on the books aren’t the reason for so much problems, or consider my attention to them “disingenuous” would be a gross mistake.

Which I never did. In fact, in the OP I made sure to specify that the issue of the homicide rate in the black community had to do with much more complex issues of socio-economic marginalization, racism, and inequality than how strict or loose gun laws are.

Though, over all, as I've said time and time again the issue of the homicide rate in OUR community has much more to do with income, education, resources, family structure, systematic racism, development environment, and some culturized dysfunctions than how strict or loose gun laws are- But maybe you guys know something about gun laws their relation to the black community that I don't. Please do share.

And who is presenting the issue like it’s a black issue? You?

Yeah, lets try the entire black congressional caucus.
Black caucus demands gun control vote after shootings

But, if you concede that there's not any tangible benefit of more gun control that you can point out for the black community, then I guess that answers the question at hand.