Have you ever met a selfless, kind hearted, pleasant, unassuming conservative voter in real life?

[MMS]

this is basically inaccurate. the great society policies were mostly undermined by nixon and ford, and then completely eviscerated by reagan. those programs are no longer nearly as relevant and are not a significant reason for contemporary black support for the democratic party.

from 1960 to 1968 the amount of black families at the poverty line went from around 50 to 30 percent, black unemployment also fell significantly. these numbers are likely not only because of the great society and im sure there were other factors im not aware of, but it definitely did not lead to greater dependence on the federal government - it led to less dependence because unemployment fell.

trying to ascribe political developments after 68 to the great society doesnt work because republican presidents drastically reduced the extent of those programs.

unemployment is misleading, are you employed if you own land and work it? clarence thomas who generally gets a bad rep said this regarding affirmative action and the black man in white employment:

In his interview with ABC News, Thomas said he was unable, even when he was nominated to the Supreme Court, to erase the stigmatizing effects of racial preference. "Once it is assumed that everything you do achieve is because of your race, there is no way out." he said. "…it is irrebuttable and it is proved to be true. In everything now that someone like me does, there's a backwash into your whole life is because of race."

how can the black man be proud when he is told continuously that the only reason he has anything is because society forced their hand to accept him?

edit - Republican positions since inception has been small government. They arent perfect and the most common way they have been attacked is that they will say this and then award valuable contracts to their friends (Crony Capitalism). At the end of the day each side has real flaws. I just dont believe for a second that one is greatly better than the other.

Social programs largely are NOT helping black people as people would think. Govt jobs and increased hiring have helped in a sense, but ultimately jobs do not create wealth like land ownership does (my grandfather and my uncles who still have successful businesses are a testament to this)

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

unemployment is misleading, are you employed if you own land and work it? clarence thomas who generally gets a bad rep said this regarding affirmative action and the black man in white employment:



how can the black man be proud when he is told continuously that the only reason he has anything is because society forced their hand to accept him?

can you rephrase this, i dont really understand it.

if youre saying what i think you are, my point isnt that the democrats in the 60s loved black people and really wanted to end segregation out of the goodness of their hearts. LBJ especially was an extreme racist who voted against anti-lynching acts in the 50s. the reason they passed these laws is because the civil rights movement created so much political pressure, it would have been political suicide for them not to. these programs arent the result of white politicians generously giving them out, they were the result of decades of activism by black americans culminating in the civil rights movement.

 

[MMS]

can you rephrase this, i dont really understand it.

if youre saying what i think you are, my point isnt that the democrats in the 60s loved black people and really wanted to end segregation out of the goodness of their hearts. LBJ especially was an extreme racist who voted against anti-lynching acts in the 50s. the reason they passed these laws is because the civil rights movement created so much political pressure, it would have been political suicide for them not to. these programs arent the result of white politicians generously giving them out, they were the result of decades of activism by black americans culminating in the civil rights movement.

As a chemical engineer I routinely received the "unexpected" type vibes from white people and anyone else in higher professions. Always a general feeling that "damn MMS you're so lucky despite being black." "How are you so intelligent when you come from black culture?" This is what im saying. You can be successful in America as a black man, have billions and be seen as some token miracle rather than the sweat, hard work, and sacrifice that is truly required for success

when folks label you this way it is like poison. I respect the views of NOI for this alone but I don't agree with their religious doctrines etc.

the way i read American history is like this:

republicans had a mandate after the civil war if they wanted to of eradicating the south completely. Sherman's march is good evidence of this (burning of Atlanta etc). Even today I know northern whites who think they should have. However, being that the republican party then was heavily influenced by churchgoers the need for unity was greater than a need for full and utter retribution. When northern opportunists showed up in the south to start rebuilding businesses and blacks became resourceful the sour and disgruntled white southerner took action on both. Repubs could have easily restarted the civil war but instead conceded as "white unity" was more important thus the blind eye. That said it's very clear that black wealth generation was solely with the representatives they sent to the republican caucus. I still see this today. Whereas you will not hear a single Dem encourage a black man (or anyone for that matter) that business is advantageous but rather will tell you "good paying jobs" are the way to financial freedom (lie) and that "big corporations" are all evil despite taking generous donations from them and ultimately keeping their work force (debt slaves) happy with bread, circuses and entertainment

This is where I stand when I view it objectively. IMO the only way is self-creation and knowledge of that power internally. You have to get brutally honest with the truth of the world before you can begin succeeding in it regardless of what you look like. Plenty of white men and women that squander family wealth due to their world view and work ethic. Folks will have you believe that wealth is permanent and always generational when it is fleeting like the wind (see corona)

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

As a chemical engineer I routinely received the "unexpected" type vibes from white people and anyone else in higher professions. Always a general feeling that "damn MMS you're so lucky despite being black." "How are you so intelligent when you come from black culture?" This is what im saying. You can be successful in America as a black man, have billions and be seen as some token miracle rather than the sweat, hard work, and sacrifice that is truly required for success

when folks label you this way it is like poison. I respect the views of NOI for this alone but I don't agree with their religious doctrines etc.

this is absolutely 100% true. to be honest i have to take a huge test tomorrow morning to graduate from my program, so im going to try to study now, eat breakfast (im fasting) and then go to bed. but i hope to respond to the rest of your post tomorrow, theres a lot there to discuss

 

[MMS]

this is absolutely 100% true. to be honest i have to take a huge test tomorrow morning to graduate from my program, so im going to try to study now, eat breakfast (im fasting) and then go to bed. but i hope to respond to the rest of your post tomorrow, theres a lot there to discuss

the image of the noble black man is not one who is preoccupied with the past or fearful of tomorrow but rather the man that fights today for the things he wants from life

rich and poor are states of mind and the powers that be fear one thing above all and that is a black man with a rich mind.

good luck and visualize your success today

 

[F K]

You're attempting to

Would you consider Mondale more conservative?

No , I would not consider him to be more conservative than Ronald Reagan

 

[F K]

unemployment is misleading, are you employed if you own land and work it? clarence thomas who generally gets a bad rep said this regarding affirmative action and the black man in white employment:



how can the black man be proud when he is told continuously that the only reason he has anything is because society forced their hand to accept him?

edit - Republican positions since inception has been small government. They arent perfect and the most common way they have been attacked is that they will say this and then award valuable contracts to their friends (Crony Capitalism). At the end of the day each side has real flaws. I just dont believe for a second that one is greatly better than the other.

Social programs largely are NOT helping black people as people would think. Govt jobs and increased hiring have helped in a sense, but ultimately jobs do not create wealth like land ownership does (my grandfather and my uncles who still have successful businesses are a testament to this)

The great majority of white wealth was created by government intervention, don't fall for their gov't assistance for me, rugged market individualism for thee propaganda.
What killed Black Americans was being excluded at greater rates from the gi bill, subsidized small business loans and subsidized land ownership.
White people openly admit to getting jobs from their relatives and are still proud.

This culture stuff is overplayed.

 

[MMS]

The great majority of white wealth was created by government intervention, don't fall for their gov't assistance for me, rugged market individualism for thee propaganda.
What killed Black Americans was being excluded at greater rates from the gi bill, subsidized small business loans and subsidized land ownership.
White people openly admit to getting jobs from their relatives and are still proud.

This culture stuff is overplayed.

my uncle has 4 sons and from his sons there are atleast 7 men all whom are apart of his business or started their own

the assumption of government intervention being the "secret" to wealth is one of the greatest deceptions ever pulled on black men to get them to give up...like you apparently have

 

[F K]

my uncle has 4 sons and from his sons there are atleast 7 men all whom are apart of his business or started their own

the assumption of government intervention being the "secret" to wealth is one of the greatest deceptions ever pulled on black men to get them to give up...like you apparently have

Anecdotes are not data.
Who said anything about giving up. My family has also done very well, making money in engineering and investing in real estate. But I don't fall for cac propaganda about how industrious and incredible they are. Know your enemy if you are going to defeat them.

edit: The average white family wealth is hundreds of thousands of dollars more than that of average black family, and it's not because they are smarter and more hardworking than us.

 

[MMS]

Anecdotes are not data.
Who said anything about giving up. My family has also done very well, making money in engineering and investing in real estate. But I don't fall for cac propaganda about how industrious and incredible they are. Know your enemy if you are going to defeat them.

edit: The average white family wealth is hundreds of thousands of dollars more than that of average black family, and it's not because they are smarter and more hardworking than us.

who said anything about cacs being industrious and incredible? history says theyve stolen land, resources and PEOPLE in the name of "success"

dont put words in my mouth

supporting qualities that build people is not "white" nor black in nature but noble. I am happy you are finding success and I hope more people follow in that belief. I just don't like the idea of telling people wholesale that your opportunity is only as good as the hands that extend down to you (poor man mentality)

 

[Warren Moon]

Yes. I’m somewhat involved in my church.

I know some older black conservatives that truly don’t agree with abortion and to a degree don’t really care anyone’s living conditions past the most basic needs(technically this is correct dependent upon how you interpret the Bible).

they also don’t lower their standards for any black ppl that aren’t a black couple married with children.

but then have very bigoted ideas on others. It’s a weird mix.

i know if I die tomorrow tho and had a wife and kids. They’d be good for a while bc those black conservatives would help them.

It’s a mixed bag . It’s like 10-20% of our church

 

[F K]

who said anything about cacs being industrious and incredible? history says theyve stolen land, resources and PEOPLE in the name of "success"

dont put words in my mouth

supporting qualities that build people is not "white" nor black in nature but noble. I am happy you are finding success and I hope more people follow in that belief. I just don't like the idea of telling people wholesale that your opportunity is only as good as the hands that extend down to you (poor man mentality)

Honestly, the only way out of poverty is to have the conservative mindset that you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps and that you are entirely in control of your fate. I push that mentality whenever possible.

But those of us who have worked our way out should have the wisdom to realize that vision of the world is a mirage and a fairy tale, and while perhaps not extending a hand, we should be building safer ladders and building safety nets.

This is a society where white HS dropouts have similar earning potential as black college graduates and a poorly timed illness can destroy years of financial prudence and discipline.

 

[F K]

Yes. I’m somewhat involved in my church.

I know some older black conservatives that truly don’t agree with abortion and to a degree don’t really care anyone’s living conditions past the most basic needs(technically this is correct dependent upon how you interpret the Bible).

they also don’t lower their standards for any black ppl that aren’t a black couple married with children.

but then have very bigoted ideas on others. It’s a weird mix.

i know if I die tomorrow tho and had a wife and kids. They’d be good for a while bc those black conservatives would help them.

It’s a mixed bag . It’s like 10-20% of our church

Anyone who has lived in a predominantly black country knows black conservatives exist and will continue to exist until the heat death of the universe.
American Conservatism is another bag completely and is basically just white supremacy at this point, I very much doubt that there has ever been a sizable contingent of black people who believe in American conservatism.

 

[MMS]

Honestly, the only way out of poverty is to have the conservative mindset that you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps and that you are entirely in control of your fate. I push that mentality whenever possible.

But those of us who have worked our way out should have the wisdom to realize that vision of the world is a mirage and a fairy tale, and while perhaps not extending a hand, we should be building safer ladders and building safety nets.

This is a society where white HS dropouts have similar earning potential as black college graduates and a poorly timed illness can destroy years of financial prudence and discipline.

eliminating language like this and the misuse of statistics has to end if you truly believe what you say

when you start telling people that the odds are against them they will often believe it

financial difficulty can come and go but faith in god and belief in your god given ability to live and prosper can never be taken externally but can only be lost internally

we arent as different as you think, this isnt a treatise for repubs either. I just want it to be known that the spoken word is the most powerful thing any man can have. The unlimited imagination that man is endowed with is only restricted by himself. Therefore it is necessary for growth that you tap into this and never let anyone tell you that it isnt possible. Id rather fail endlessly, shyt id rather die failing than accept that my situation is wholly controlled by outside powers

 

[F K]

eliminating language like this and the use of statistics has to end if you truly believe what you say

when you start telling people that the odds are against them they will often believe it

financial difficulty can come and go but faith in god and belief in your god given ability to live and prosper can never be taken externally but can only be lost internally

we arent as different as you think, this isnt a treatise for repubs either. I just want it to be known that the spoken word is the most powerful thing any man can have. The unlimited imagination that man is endowed with is only restricted by himself. Therefore it is necessary for growth that you tap into this and never let anyone tell you that it isnt possible. Id rather fail endlessly, shyt id rather die failing than accept that my situation is wholly controlled by outside powers

Isn't there a middle ground between wholly controlled by outside powers and entirely impervious to outside powers.
I'll give your ideas some thought but I am an empiricist by nature and by trade and find the idea of relying on positive thinking and faith to shape a society's policies a little odd.
You can do what you want to motivate yourself but at some point, we have to incorporate data and analysis when making policies that affect large groups of people.