Hawks=2000s Sacramento Kings
- Thread starter O.iatlhawksfan
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ManBearPig
half man half bearpig
I would say naw.
We are a much better defensive team than prime SACTOWN. We close out shoots better, move a lot better on defense, much more smart on defense and we have much more capable defenders than SAC. We also run an offense which is more player movement oriented. BUT...
Chris Webber was a #1 option scorer. One of the best offensive PF's in NBA history. With Sac-town, he was unstoppable within 24 feet and was a passing wizard for a big. Divac while nothing special compared to what Atlanta has, he was great passer who has decent center size and was a capable scorer. Peja, would be our #2 best scorer outside of Teague if he was a Hawk. I think comparing him to Korver isn't kinda false being that Peja could really score. Let's not forget about Turk's offensive versatility and we know first hand how great of a floor general Bibby was. With that said, Atlanta is a great team, especially getting Tiago who really solves our big man issues to some degree. Clearly, we want Tavares ready as he has special talent but we will have to wait for that.
I think this comparison is a fair one but it's not completely true. I think the Hawks are better in areas and the Kings are better in others. The common fan like @Gil Scott-Heroin won't see it because they really don't like the Hawks for whatever reason but Atlanta is as legit as they come with Horford, Dennis, Bazemore and Teague continuing to improve.
The demise of the Atlanta Hawks has been greatly exaggerated.
We are a much better defensive team than prime SACTOWN. We close out shoots better, move a lot better on defense, much more smart on defense and we have much more capable defenders than SAC. We also run an offense which is more player movement oriented. BUT...
Chris Webber was a #1 option scorer. One of the best offensive PF's in NBA history. With Sac-town, he was unstoppable within 24 feet and was a passing wizard for a big. Divac while nothing special compared to what Atlanta has, he was great passer who has decent center size and was a capable scorer. Peja, would be our #2 best scorer outside of Teague if he was a Hawk. I think comparing him to Korver isn't kinda false being that Peja could really score. Let's not forget about Turk's offensive versatility and we know first hand how great of a floor general Bibby was. With that said, Atlanta is a great team, especially getting Tiago who really solves our big man issues to some degree. Clearly, we want Tavares ready as he has special talent but we will have to wait for that.
I think this comparison is a fair one but it's not completely true. I think the Hawks are better in areas and the Kings are better in others. The common fan like @Gil Scott-Heroin won't see it because they really don't like the Hawks for whatever reason but Atlanta is as legit as they come with Horford, Dennis, Bazemore and Teague continuing to improve.
The demise of the Atlanta Hawks has been greatly exaggerated.
Honestly, their not even close. It was a weak NBA era. Teams like the Lakers was starting Devean George, Slava M and Samaki Walker. D-League guys in today's NBA. Sac was playing Lawrence Funderburk, Scot Pollard and Corliss Williamson as legit rotation players.
Even statwise, they don't come close. The best team to never win a NBA title stat wise is probably the recent Clippers. They put up amazing statistics as a team. The Kings were exciting but they were overrated mainly due to playing in a weak era.
Common fan? I maybe a lot of things - but a common fan isn't one of them.
Look, you were saying the same shyt last season. Almost word for word - about how I couldn't see what yall Hawks fans were seeing. Then reality hit. And well. The rest is history.
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Let's just cut to the case.
Teague=Bibby. Teague is one of the 5-7 best PG's in the NBA and one of the top 50 NBA players at the time. Bibby was as well and one of the top 50 NBA players at the time.
Korver>Christie. Korver is one of the best shooters in NBA history and is a good team defender to boot. Not to mention a good passer and rebounder for his position. Doug was limited offensively but was a solid playmaker, an excellent passer and a great man defender. Korver with the slight edge.
Peja>>>Bazemore. Peja was an All Star level player who was an excellent shooter, very good scorer and below average defender but played solid team D. Baze is still improving, I don't know what he is on a consistent level but he's shown he has potential. Right now, Peja was a proven 21.2 PPG scorer, I think it's clear, we will all ride with the known commodity.
Webber>Millsap. Webber is one of the best scorers in NBA history for PF's and one of the top PF's to play the game. He was a shell of a defender at this stage but he was as good as it gets on offense. Sap is an all around very good PF. One of the best PF's in the NBA today and defensively, he's pretty good. But this one goes to Webber. He's elite even if it's only one side of the court.
Horford>>>Divac. There is no one you can say otherwise. Divac best skill which is passing isn't even as good as Horford at it. Horford is one of the most underrated players in NBA history and should be seen with the Webber's of the world. Great defender and he's a very good offensive player even though he's just a good scorer overall.
Bench:
Turkey>Thabo. This is tough, because by the RAPM, +/- and advanced stats, Thabo is a much more impactful player than Turk. But as it stands, Basketball is played on the court and Turk was a better player than Thabo at this stage. Now, this wasn't Turk's prime as he was really young, he was a better talent and a better player overall even if Thabo was more impactful.
Dennis>Jackson. This is like the Thabo-Turk argument. Where i am going with the better talent and better overall player instead of the more impactful and probably more refine skill-set at this stage of their careers.
Tiago>>>>>>>>Pollard. This is one of the reasons why I can't stand the early 2000's to some degree. The talent was so damn diluted. Pollard wouldn't play minutes for ANY playoff team in today's NBA.
Scott>Funderburk. Neither player is that good. Scott is just a tier above D-League and Lawrence would be in France if he's in this era. So I am riding with the NBA player.
Holiday>>>Wallace. Now Wallace in his prime>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but at this stage, he was extremely young, raw and never seen the court and when he did, he looked confused as hell. This is like Tavares, will be a much better player than he was at moment. Holiday right now has a solid 3 and D skillset. While his potential isn't great, he is clearly a better player at the time of the comparison. Once again, if we are talking about prime Crash>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Muscala>>>>>>>>>>>>>Smith. Once again, the NBA is just much deeper TODAY than it was in the early 2000's. This is another EuroCup player that is in the NBA due to a weak era. Muscala has NBA skills and can play in the NBA in any era and even start in the early 2000's so this is a no-brainer.
Mack>>>>>>>Brown. Chucky had a Mack like talent but at this stage of his career, he was washed b. Mack is an average PG and a solid backup PG.
Tavares and Hardaway Jr>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cleaves and Brent Price. Early 2000's benches were littered with trash. It's sad because SAC and POR had the best ones too. POR probably had the only bench in the early 2000's that could compare or even be better than today's benches. POR had one of the all time benches in NBA history, regardless of era.
Teague=Bibby. Teague is one of the 5-7 best PG's in the NBA and one of the top 50 NBA players at the time. Bibby was as well and one of the top 50 NBA players at the time.
Korver>Christie. Korver is one of the best shooters in NBA history and is a good team defender to boot. Not to mention a good passer and rebounder for his position. Doug was limited offensively but was a solid playmaker, an excellent passer and a great man defender. Korver with the slight edge.
Peja>>>Bazemore. Peja was an All Star level player who was an excellent shooter, very good scorer and below average defender but played solid team D. Baze is still improving, I don't know what he is on a consistent level but he's shown he has potential. Right now, Peja was a proven 21.2 PPG scorer, I think it's clear, we will all ride with the known commodity.
Webber>Millsap. Webber is one of the best scorers in NBA history for PF's and one of the top PF's to play the game. He was a shell of a defender at this stage but he was as good as it gets on offense. Sap is an all around very good PF. One of the best PF's in the NBA today and defensively, he's pretty good. But this one goes to Webber. He's elite even if it's only one side of the court.
Horford>>>Divac. There is no one you can say otherwise. Divac best skill which is passing isn't even as good as Horford at it. Horford is one of the most underrated players in NBA history and should be seen with the Webber's of the world. Great defender and he's a very good offensive player even though he's just a good scorer overall.
Bench:
Turkey>Thabo. This is tough, because by the RAPM, +/- and advanced stats, Thabo is a much more impactful player than Turk. But as it stands, Basketball is played on the court and Turk was a better player than Thabo at this stage. Now, this wasn't Turk's prime as he was really young, he was a better talent and a better player overall even if Thabo was more impactful.
Dennis>Jackson. This is like the Thabo-Turk argument. Where i am going with the better talent and better overall player instead of the more impactful and probably more refine skill-set at this stage of their careers.
Tiago>>>>>>>>Pollard. This is one of the reasons why I can't stand the early 2000's to some degree. The talent was so damn diluted. Pollard wouldn't play minutes for ANY playoff team in today's NBA.
Scott>Funderburk. Neither player is that good. Scott is just a tier above D-League and Lawrence would be in France if he's in this era. So I am riding with the NBA player.
Holiday>>>Wallace. Now Wallace in his prime>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but at this stage, he was extremely young, raw and never seen the court and when he did, he looked confused as hell. This is like Tavares, will be a much better player than he was at moment. Holiday right now has a solid 3 and D skillset. While his potential isn't great, he is clearly a better player at the time of the comparison. Once again, if we are talking about prime Crash>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Muscala>>>>>>>>>>>>>Smith. Once again, the NBA is just much deeper TODAY than it was in the early 2000's. This is another EuroCup player that is in the NBA due to a weak era. Muscala has NBA skills and can play in the NBA in any era and even start in the early 2000's so this is a no-brainer.
Mack>>>>>>>Brown. Chucky had a Mack like talent but at this stage of his career, he was washed b. Mack is an average PG and a solid backup PG.
Tavares and Hardaway Jr>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cleaves and Brent Price. Early 2000's benches were littered with trash. It's sad because SAC and POR had the best ones too. POR probably had the only bench in the early 2000's that could compare or even be better than today's benches. POR had one of the all time benches in NBA history, regardless of era.
I never made the comparison to the Kings in the regard that we are like them. I always say we are the first Atlanta Hawks. No one plays like us. Where player movement is as valued as ball movement. Where everyone is plus passers and we play elite team defense. Now our man defense isn't all that good.Common fan? I maybe a lot of things - but a common fan isn't one of them.
Look, you were saying the same shyt last season. Almost word for word - about how I couldn't see what yall Hawks fans were seeing. Then reality hit. And well. The rest is history.
We aren't the mid 2000's Detroit. We aren't the Spurs. We aren't the early 2000's Kings. We are the mid 2010's Hawks
All of the advanced team stats have the last two LAC teams as all time great teams stat wise.
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The issue is, in their our conference, the Spurs in 2014 and the Warriors last year had some of the greatest NBA seasons in the history of Basketball. Check out the stats. I am dead ass serious. Now with my own eyes, I have never been that impressed with the Clippers but adv stats are very impressed with them. Like mid 90's Bulls impressed.
I will say you are a diehard fan and a smart one to boot, but you are way too emotional and you be some Skip Bayless shyt if you dislike a certain player or team.Common fan? I maybe a lot of things - but a common fan isn't one of them.
Look, you were saying the same shyt last season. Almost word for word - about how I couldn't see what yall Hawks fans were seeing. Then reality hit. And well. The rest is history.
Quite the opposite actually. I'm not posting with my emotions when I comment on your team - I post with my brain. Explain to me on why I was right about your team all along last season? And like always, you were WRONG about your team. Clearly you are the one that can't judge your team without any innate bias. I don't hate any team to the point where I project an outlook that is based through my "emotions".
What did I try telling yall last season - I said until you traded/signed for a PROPER star to handle your backcourt/wing scoring and clutch duties - that you weren't going to do shyt.
Now hypothetically if yall signed a star wing/guard in the offseason - I would've been talking up your team's chances. Does that sound like someone that posts with too much emotion?
Just stop while you're ahead breh. The Clippers aren't the best team to never win a title. You're talking absolute nonsense.
I didn't say they were. I say I don't believe in them but adv stats do. The best team never to win the title for me was Portland 2000. I don't know how they didn't beat LA.
Stop just while you're ahead breh. The Clippers aren't the best team to never win a title. You're talking absolute nonsense.
By far the best team of the early 2000's for me who didn't win
Show me these stats.I didn't say they were. I say I don't believe in them but adv stats do. The best team never to win the title for me was Portland 2000. I don't know how they didn't beat LA.
By far the best team of the early 2000's for me who didn't win
2014-15:
PTS/G: 107.9 (1st of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 101.0 (14th of 30)
SRS: 7.27 (2nd of 30) ▪ Pace: 95.9 (7th of 30)
Off Rtg: 112.1 (1st of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 104.8 (9th of 30)
Expected W-L: 59-23 (2nd of 30)
The highest point per game in the best NBA era in it's history. Very good defense. Elite all time Off rating. Elite SRS in a strong era.
In the top 10 of all team TS% marks in the shot clock era over the last two years.
Hollinger's NBA Team Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN
Hollinger's NBA Team Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN
One of the best passing teams in the last 30 years in the NBA.
One of the best 3 point shooting marks as well but then again, the game has changed, most of the best shooting teams today rate extremely high all time in 3pt shooting marks.
They are seen as one of the most balanced NBA teams off all time by RAPM, PER, team +/- and impact wins for a regular season team in 2014 and 2015. This year, they look like their on pace for similar results.
PTS/G: 107.9 (1st of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 101.0 (14th of 30)
SRS: 7.27 (2nd of 30) ▪ Pace: 95.9 (7th of 30)
Off Rtg: 112.1 (1st of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 104.8 (9th of 30)
Expected W-L: 59-23 (2nd of 30)
The highest point per game in the best NBA era in it's history. Very good defense. Elite all time Off rating. Elite SRS in a strong era.
In the top 10 of all team TS% marks in the shot clock era over the last two years.
Hollinger's NBA Team Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN
Hollinger's NBA Team Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN
One of the best passing teams in the last 30 years in the NBA.
One of the best 3 point shooting marks as well but then again, the game has changed, most of the best shooting teams today rate extremely high all time in 3pt shooting marks.
They are seen as one of the most balanced NBA teams off all time by RAPM, PER, team +/- and impact wins for a regular season team in 2014 and 2015. This year, they look like their on pace for similar results.