History brehs....how was Germany in the wrong in WW1?

Spiritual Stratocaster

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Austria Hungary gave Serbia some bs ultimatum.

"
According to the terms of the ultimatum delivered on July 23, the Serbian government would have to accept an Austro-Hungarian inquiry into the assassination, notwithstanding its claim that it was already conducting its own internal investigation.

( :mjpls: No real country would allow this. )

Serbia was also to suppress all anti-Austrian propaganda and to take steps to root out and eliminate terrorist organizations within its borders—one such organization, the Black Hand, was believed to have aided and abetted the archduke’s killer, Gavrilo Princip, and his cohorts, providing weapons and safe passage from Belgrade to Sarajevo. The Dual Monarchy demanded an answer to the note within 48 hours—by that time, however, anticipating Serbian defiance, Gieslingen had already packed his bags and prepared to leave the embassy

Pasic himself delivered the Serbian answer to the ultimatum to Gieslingen at the Austrian embassy, just before the 6 p.m. deadline. Serbia’s response effectively accepted all terms of the ultimatum but one: it would not accept Austria-Hungary’s participation in any internal inquiry, stating that this would be a violation of the Constitution and of the law of criminal procedure
"

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/austria-hungary-issues-ultimatum-to-serbia
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They wanted to force a conflict and defeat Serbia before Russia could get involved.
 

African Peasant

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Great Britain did not like the rise of the German Empire. They feared that German might surpass them

Germany was surrounded and only had one ally: Austria-Hungary; they could not let it be destroyed by Serbs nationalists supported by Serbia and Russia.

Germany thought that Russia was dangerous because it supported Serbia but also because if it modernized it will become a juggernaut that Germany won't be able to contain (they were right => USSR)

France hated Germany because of the Alsace situation and also feared pan-Germanism. French pushed Russian toward a very anti-german position. French themselves were encouraged by Great Britain.

etc
 

African Peasant

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They were. Kaiser Wilhelm and his boys had been planning an invasion of France for more than ten years. The war didn't happen because some random prince of a jabroni country got assassinated. German military leadership and the aristocracy designed their war plans for a decade and believed it would all be over in 40 days.

And frankly, France wanted the smoke too.

Everybody wanted the smoke. Ironically, the Kaizer and the Tsar were the ones who did want war. But their people wanted it.
 

The Odum of Ala Igbo

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Well, yeah, because France and Russia already had a military alliance. You leave your allies hanging, and you prove yourself an untrustworthy ally. That's just basic geopolitics.

And again, Germany declared war on Russia and France, not the other way around. Germany invaded a neutral country, Belgium, even after the UK threatened war should it do so. No nation is 100% innocent, obviously, but Germany was the country that actively took the steps to turn a Balkan conflict into a worldwide one.

Also, Germany could have stopped Austria-Hungary before any of this happened, but instead gave the Habsburgs their full support.

Russia would not have stopped their mobilization nor their support for Serbia. Russia could’ve avoided mobilization, thus deterring Germany and France for calling up reserves.
 

KingCesar

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Germany thought that Russia was dangerous because it supported Serbia but also because if it modernized it will become a juggernaut that Germany won't be able to contain (they were right => USSR)
Germany created the USSR in the first place. The German government were the ones who snuck Lenin back into Russia. They supported the Bolsheviks in order to get Russia out of WWI. The USSR is their fault.

How Germany got the Russian Revolution off the ground | DW | 07.11.2017
 

Reece

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Germany was in the wrong, insofar as any nation could be. Austria-Hungary probably even more so. There’s a whole complicated story behind it, but in a nutshell I think just boils down to this:

Austria-Hungary had wanted a war with Serbia for some time as a means of preserving a dying Habsburg Empire. The Germans needed to support the Habsburgs, since Austria-Hungary was its biggest ally in Europe and a buffer against the Russian Empire. The assassination of Franz Ferdinand gave Austria-Hungary the pretext it needed for that war, but they weren’t going to take any action without Berlin’s approval. Germany gave Austria-Hungary that approval – i.e. the “blank cheque” – and Austria proceeded to declare war on Serbia, setting off the chain of events that resulted in WWI.

Germany enabled Austria to go to war against Serbia. Germany was also the country that declared war on Russia and France and invaded Belgium, bringing the UK into it. So while there’s a complex political situation in Europe involving geo-political alliances, imperialism, etc., in each one of the big steps that led to the war, you can see that Germany and Austria-Hungary were the aggressors.

They killed the Crown Prince though breh :picard: They shot ole boy in broad daylight like he wasn’t the next King. I feel like if Putin shot Prince William or if Iran killed Mohammed Bin Salman, it would be open war in Europe and the Middle East. You can’t skip past that.
 

African Peasant

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Well, yeah, because France and Russia already had a military alliance. You leave your allies hanging, and you prove yourself an untrustworthy ally. That's just basic geopolitics.

And again, Germany declared war on Russia and France, not the other way around. Germany invaded a neutral country, Belgium, even after the UK threatened war should it do so. No nation is 100% innocent, obviously, but Germany was the country that actively took the steps to turn a Balkan conflict into a worldwide one.

Also, Germany could have stopped Austria-Hungary before any of this happened, but instead gave the Habsburgs their full support.

Why do you think the alliance was established? France was pushing for an alliance against Germany. The Tsar was reluctant. That's why Point Carré went to Russia to make sure that the Tsar was on board. France knew that Germany will protect Austria Hungary at any cost. Supporting Russia meant that they wanted smoke with Germany.

And Russia mobilized first. After that, Germany had no choice but to declare war.
The Kaizer sent tons of Telegram to Franz joseph to not attack.
However, the German military was encouraging Austria Hungary. But as I said, once Russia started to moblize (july 30th), Germany had no choice. And one of the reasons why Russia mobilized was the trip the french prime minister made in Russia just a few weeks prior to the beginning of the war.
 

The Odum of Ala Igbo

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Germany created the USSR in the first place. The German government were the ones who snuck Lenin back into Russia. They supported the Bolsheviks in order to get Russia out of WWI. The USSR is their fault.

How Germany got the Russian Revolution off the ground | DW | 07.11.2017

:francis: Here we go.

The Reich contributed to the Lenin sneaking back into Russia but the success of the October Revolution wasn’t solely a Bolshevik endeavour.

Remember, the war continued for a time because of Kerensky.
 

African Peasant

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African Peasant

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Revolutionary forces had been active since the 1880s and could’ve succeeded in 1905 if the Duma wasn’t created as a stopgap between autocracy and democracy

Russia was already in turmoil. The Russian aristocracy thought that a war will unite the nation and reduce the influence of the revolutionary forces and the social movement in general. The plan backfired.

It's funny because the Tsar did not really want the war. Rasputin even told him that if he goes to war, his family will be killed and his empire will vanish.
 

The Odum of Ala Igbo

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Russia was already in turmoil. The Russian aristocracy thought that a war will unite the nation and reduce the influence of the revolutionary forces and the social movement in general. The plan backfired.

It's funny because the Tsar did not really want the war. Rasputin even told him that if he goes to war, his family will be killed and his empire will vanish.

Yeah. Losing the Russo-Japanese War already weakened his rule.
 

African Peasant

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If you were at the head of Germany - what would you do if:
A) Your enemies (Russia and France) are already mobilizing for war and could overwhelm if you decide to wait-and-see
B) Your greatest ally (Austria-Hungary) had a legitimate casus belli
Austria Hungary should have chill :francis:
 
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