Horus/Jesus and Christianity

10:31

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Fellas.. Need some real insight on something's. Lately I've had my ideas and outlook on life challenged by some pretty well learned brothers who've been breaking down myths associated with man made religion...


Yesterday they basically explained where the "Jesus" story was derived from. I mean these brothers went in on how the letter J is only a certain amount of years old.. And the Egyptian God Horus is what the Jesus story is based off of..



shyt got me looking at the world a little different today. Can any of you spiritual brehs come shed some light on this
 

Mr. Pink

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I don't have any insight on this but as far as religions go, Christianity is a fairly recent one, so it's perfectly plausible that it "borrowed" elements from older religions.
 

10:31

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I don't have any insight on this but as far as religions go, Christianity is a fairly recent one, so it's perfectly plausible that it "borrowed" elements from older religions.

I understand that however, these dudes went over three direct similarities between Jesus and Horus that got me rethinking a lot of things I've believed to be true my whole life. I've done some of my own research since building with them and I've uncovered even more similarities between Horus and Jesus.

Sounds to me like Jesus is Horus and the Egyptian faith is where a lot of the Christian narratives come from.
 

Mr. Pink

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Oh I was agreeing with you. I recall reading somewhere that the Biblical Flood story was also adopted from somewhere else(can't remember the details). Some religions shared many commonalities. Same stories with different flavors.
 

tmonster

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150px-Graves0001.JPG


3424139.jpg
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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tmonster said:

:usure:
The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Or Christianity Before Christ is unreliable, but no comprehensive critique exists. Most scholars immediately recognize many of his findings as unsupported and dismiss Graves as useless. After all, a scholar who rarely cites a source isn't useful to have as a reference even if he is right. For examples of specific problems, however, see Hare Jesus: Christianity's Hindu Heritage, and some generally poor but not always incorrect Christian rebuttals. A very helpful discussion of related methodological problems by renowned scholar Bruce Metzger is also well worth reading ("Methodology in the Study of the Mystery Religions and Early Christianity" 2002). In general, even when the evidence is real, it often only appears many years after Christianity began, and thus might be evidence of diffusion in the other direction. Another typical problem is that Graves draws far too much from what often amounts to rather vague evidence. In general, there are ten kinds of problems that crop up in Graves' work here and there:

  • Graves often does not distinguish his opinions and theories from what his sources and evidence actually state.
  • Graves often omits important sources and evidence.
  • Graves often mistreats in a biased or anachronistic way the sources he does use.
  • Graves occasionally relies on suspect sources.
  • Graves does little or no source analysis or formal textual criticism.
  • Graves' work is totally uninformed by modern social history (a field that did not begin to be formally pursued until after World War II, i.e., after Graves died).
  • Graves' conclusions and theories often far exceed what the evidence justifies, and he treats both speculations and sound theories as of equal value.
  • Graves often ignores important questions of chronology and the actual order of plausible historical influence, and completely disregards the methodological problems this creates.
  • Graves' work lacks all humility, which is unconscionable given the great uncertainties that surround the sketchy material he had to work with.
  • Graves' scholarship is obsolete, having been vastly improved upon by new methods, materials, discoveries, and textual criticism in the century since he worked. In fact, almost every historical work written before 1950 is regarded as outdated and untrustworthy by historians today.
All this is not to say Graves didn't have some things right. But you will never be able to tell what he has right from what he has wrong without totally redoing all his research and beyond, which makes him utterly useless to historians as a source. For example, almost all his sources on Krishna long postdate Christian-Nestorian influence on India. No pre-Christian texts on Krishna contain the details crucial to his case, apart from those few that were common among many gods everywhere. Can you tell from Graves which details are attested by early evidence, and which by late? That's a problem.

On the other side of the coin, consider his emphasis on the December 25 birth date as a common feature. This is one of the things he gets right, at least regarding Greco-Roman religion: all gods associated with the sun shared the sun's "birthday," erroneously identified as December 25 (it is actually the 21st). But for Jesus, we can actually trace when and why Jesus was assigned this birthday for political reasons in the 4th century, 300 years after Christianity began. Graves seems oblivious to the distinction between the origins of Christianity and its subsequent development. Yet no Christian in the beginning believed Jesus was born on December 25. But Graves obscures this fact, leading to false conclusions about the origins of the Christ story. So again, he gets some things right, but uses them in the wrong way. Can you tell when? That's a problem, too.

Another example is something written by the first philosophical defender of Christianity, Justin Martyr, who wrote around 160 A.D. These passages show the sort of stories that even Christians acknowledged as predating their own, and you can see how Graves sometimes embellishes and goes a bit too far with this kind of evidence--and there is no better evidence before the 3rd century, when Christian ideas were already affecting pagan thought. However, you will see here that there is a small kernel of truth in what Graves argues, but since he rarely cites sources and engages in almost no critical examination of texts we can't tell when he is right or wrong and that makes him useless to scholars.

~Richard Carrier, Ph.D. from Columbia University in ancient history, he specializes in the intellectual history of Greece and Rome, particularly ancient philosophy, religion, and science, with emphasis on the origins of Christianity and the use and progress of science under the Roman empire.
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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Cbanks36 said:
Sounds to me like Jesus is Horus and the Egyptian faith is where a lot of the Christian narratives come from.

If you actually knew the story of Horus (which has been available for decades), you'd know the similarities are all imaginary or contrived:

Horus wasn't 'resurrected', Horus wasn't born 'of a virgin', Horus was 'born' in October/November, Horus' 'disciples' were actually the signs of the Zodiac and not real people.

There are more, but Google the 'Egyptian Coffin Texts' and 'Egyptian Pyramid Texts' since those are where Horus' story are told.
 
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